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2017/06/16 08:09:37
Subject: Re:Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Ynneadwraith wrote: SGrimhart wrote:Even if they make marines from all of the original legions, the marines made from the legions who went traitor cannot possibly be classified as traitor since they have no exposure to chaos or the warp. These are clones who will have their own memories, their own personalities and such will have no reason to be traitor. These will be reflections of the original legionnairs before the fall except, according to Cawl, no flaws. To the question of where did Cawl get these said geneseed. Does anyone truly believe that the emporer in all of his genious not think to keep a full version aside for a "just in case" moment such as this. I truly believe that before the HH went down, when the Emporer left The Great Cusade for a "Matter of Great Importance" this very well could have been this matter. Also to give the geneseed over the the Ad Mech to guard would have made perfect sense since they are the only ones still with any ties to the "old world".
The thing is that the Imperium isn't driven by knowledge or truth, it's driven by dogma and religious fervour. It doesn't matter if they are actually traitors. It only matters that they're connected to them. For many in the Imperium, that would be cause enough to purge them there and then. Remember, the Imperium fairly routinely cleanses whole worlds for fear of Chaos taint (the citizens aren't necessarily actually corrupted, but there's a risk that the Inquisition feel is too great compared to the benefits).
As to whether they will actually turn traitor or not, it depends on how deeply Chaos has its claws into the geneseed of the traitors. If there's a connection there, they may begin to wheedle their way into the minds of Primaris, just as they did the Primarchs and Astartes.
Oh, and the 'Matter of Importance' has been revealed to be the Golden Throne, which was a device to make a human-controlled portal into the webway. That way, humanity's reliance on warp travel would be broken and the Chaos gods would be further weakened. Plus, he could finally wipe out the tricksy Eldar.
Innocence proves nothing.
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2017/06/16 09:09:40
Subject: Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions
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Also it's all well and good for Cawl to say that the traitor gene seed primaris marines he made were curroption free, but they have been in stasis for mellennia. I'm sure that the Emperor thought his Primarch s were good to go as well as the space marines but once they were out in the Galaxy experience and external forces warped their perspectives and loyalties. Whose to say that it cannot happen again to Primaris whether of traitor or Loyalist stock?
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2017/06/16 12:24:00
Subject: Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
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BrianDavion wrote: Aetare wrote: G00fySmiley wrote:might be GW marketing genious. actually make the 2 lost legions vastly different and now primaris only. their tactics and equipment all different than any other chapter... boom instant sales
I don't think they'll ever really address what happened to those legions. If any news of them was revealed it would ruin the mystique and narrative potential that the game feeds on.
agreed. by now I suspect whatever GW could write just wou;dn't sastify compared to peoples imaginations.
would it be not the best fluff... probably... but it would sell minis. give them a few legion specific pieces of gear and a theme and I'd buy em.
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2017/06/18 21:35:16
Subject: Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
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If Cawl did make some from Traitor Genestock, you can bet Primaris Chaos Marines will be coming in the future.
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123ply: Dataslate- 4/4/3/3/1/3/1/8/6+
Autopistol, Steel Extendo, Puma Hoodie
USRs: "Preferred Enemy: Xenos"
"Hatred: Xenos"
"Racist and Proud of it" - Gains fleshbane, rending, rage, counter-attack, and X2 strength and toughness when locked in combat with units not in the "Imperium of Man" faction.
Collection:
AM/IG - 122nd Terrax Guard: 2094/3000pts
Skitarii/Cult Mech: 1380/2000pts
Khorne Daemonkin - Host of the Nervous Knife: 1701/2000pts
Orks - Rampage Axez: 1753/2000pts |
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2017/06/18 21:46:44
Subject: Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Looking for the Rest of the II Legion
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I expect some form of Primaris at odds with the Imperium, but not the return of the lost legions. I've already go too much of an idea of what they should be, and I don't think I'm the only one. It would alienate too many players.
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2017/06/22 20:55:52
Subject: Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Hissing Hybrid Metamorph
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123ply wrote:If Cawl did make some from Traitor Genestock, you can bet Primaris Chaos Marines will be coming in the future.
In most of that geneseed's case, as long as the marines came from good human stock, in most cases they would be as likely to fall to chaos as any other chapter.
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2017/06/23 18:48:54
Subject: Re:Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I'd rather Chaos had there own unique evolution(s) of the SM template instead of just getting corrupted Primaris.
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2017/06/23 21:03:02
Subject: Re:Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Agile Revenant Titan
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GoatboyBeta wrote:I'd rather Chaos had there own unique evolution(s) of the SM template instead of just getting corrupted Primaris.
Agreed. Lets see what Fabius can do when he rolls his sleeves up
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2017/06/23 21:24:58
Subject: Re:Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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GoatboyBeta wrote:I'd rather Chaos had there own unique evolution(s) of the SM template instead of just getting corrupted Primaris.
I agree, let chaos evolve on it's own, so that we have two distinct armies.
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2017/06/23 21:41:28
Subject: Re:Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Agile Revenant Titan
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BrianDavion wrote:GoatboyBeta wrote:I'd rather Chaos had there own unique evolution(s) of the SM template instead of just getting corrupted Primaris.
I agree, let chaos evolve on it's own, so that we have two distinct armies.
Why stop at 2?
I'm sure each Chaos God would have their own ideas about how to improve Astartes
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2017/06/24 06:55:32
Subject: Re:Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Ynneadwraith wrote:BrianDavion wrote:GoatboyBeta wrote:I'd rather Chaos had there own unique evolution(s) of the SM template instead of just getting corrupted Primaris.
I agree, let chaos evolve on it's own, so that we have two distinct armies.
Why stop at 2?
I'm sure each Chaos God would have their own ideas about how to improve Astartes
true and GW already seems to be moving in that direction
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2017/06/24 12:50:59
Subject: Re:Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Daemonic Dreadnought
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Ynneadwraith wrote:GoatboyBeta wrote:I'd rather Chaos had there own unique evolution(s) of the SM template instead of just getting corrupted Primaris.
Agreed. Lets see what Fabius can do when he rolls his sleeves up
I personally would love to see Alpha Legion with the template they stole from Corax and Fabius coming together for this and then perhaps they find Honsou, or he finds them, who figures out a way for mass production a la Daemoncubala 2.0
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Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB |
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2017/06/24 17:32:40
Subject: Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Oozing Plague Marine Terminator
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I think this bit of fluff was only added so Little Johnny can create his own Primaris chapter from traitors just like little Jimmy can create first founding legion successors. They're trying to sell the box, not the storyline.
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2017/06/29 05:22:35
Subject: Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Kinebrach-Knobbling Xeno Interrogator
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Rippy wrote:Well the Blood Ravens are supposedly from 1k sons stock, and they haven't been hunted by Magnus.
Isn't that just fan speculation?
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2017/07/16 09:41:14
Subject: Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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MrPyro wrote: Rippy wrote:Well the Blood Ravens are supposedly from 1k sons stock, and they haven't been hunted by Magnus.
Isn't that just fan speculation?
It's as watertight as can be without GW actually saying so. The Corvidae were one of the 1k Sons main cults, were focussed on wisdom rather than power (unlike, say, the Pyrae), the raven's entire scheme, including their symbol is basically the sons' pre-heresy look minus the sun symbol. I think a Corvidae-led expedition or crusading detail was mentioned in the fluff to be somewhere away from Prospero during the friendly visit by the furry friends from Fenris. The only thing that's missing is GW saying "yes, they are but no one knows!"
Well, since I got the box, might as well start something with my own paint scheme and shout "Luna Wolves/Missing Legion" at anyone doubting my color choices.
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Waaagh an' a 'alf
1500 Pts WIP |
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2017/07/16 10:38:59
Subject: Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
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Kosake wrote:MrPyro wrote: Rippy wrote:Well the Blood Ravens are supposedly from 1k sons stock, and they haven't been hunted by Magnus.
Isn't that just fan speculation?
It's as watertight as can be without GW actually saying so. The Corvidae were one of the 1k Sons main cults, were focussed on wisdom rather than power (unlike, say, the Pyrae), the raven's entire scheme, including their symbol is basically the sons' pre-heresy look minus the sun symbol. I think a Corvidae-led expedition or crusading detail was mentioned in the fluff to be somewhere away from Prospero during the friendly visit by the furry friends from Fenris. The only thing that's missing is GW saying "yes, they are but no one knows!"
But GW authors have come out and said it's not true - http://z13.invisionfree.com/The_First_Expedition/index.php?showtopic=1954&st=0
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2017/07/16 10:52:48
Subject: Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Dakka Veteran
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G00fySmiley wrote:might be GW marketing genious. actually make the 2 lost legions vastly different and now primaris only. their tactics and equipment all different than any other chapter... boom instant sales
No, just no. Rick Priestley will be turning in his grave. Which is an exceptional feat considering the man is still alive.
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2017/07/16 11:01:26
Subject: Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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beast_gts wrote: Kosake wrote:MrPyro wrote: Rippy wrote:Well the Blood Ravens are supposedly from 1k sons stock, and they haven't been hunted by Magnus.
Isn't that just fan speculation?
It's as watertight as can be without GW actually saying so. The Corvidae were one of the 1k Sons main cults, were focussed on wisdom rather than power (unlike, say, the Pyrae), the raven's entire scheme, including their symbol is basically the sons' pre-heresy look minus the sun symbol. I think a Corvidae-led expedition or crusading detail was mentioned in the fluff to be somewhere away from Prospero during the friendly visit by the furry friends from Fenris. The only thing that's missing is GW saying "yes, they are but no one knows!"
But GW authors have come out and said it's not true - http://z13.invisionfree.com/The_First_Expedition/index.php?showtopic=1954&st=0
until GW says what it IS, we're free to speculate honestly, because until it gets inked down, it's subject to change. 10 years from now GW, whose authorial team has completely changed by then, could decide that YES the blood ravens ARE a 1k sons sucessor chapter. or they could decide "ohh they're really just an ultramarines sucessor" (which, statisticly speaking IS the most likely answer for any chapter with a mysterious past. )
In all honesty I doubt their orgins will ever be revealed because the lack of any specific orgin I think is actually benifical for them.
by not being a X sucessor chapter, everyone can potentially claim some ownership of them.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/16 11:02:42
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2017/07/16 12:16:12
Subject: Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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And t here NEVER was ANY precedence of GW changing fluff or declaring writer's statements non-canon... ^_°
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Waaagh an' a 'alf
1500 Pts WIP |
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2017/07/16 22:35:41
Subject: Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Kosake wrote:And t here NEVER was ANY precedence of GW changing fluff or declaring writer's statements non-canon... ^_°
when you consider the sheer amount of stuff out there on paper GW's been willing to retcon, I think it's safe to say that anything not actually spelled out in a codex, novel etc is likely gonna be simply a "statement of authorial intent at the moment"
unless we get a statement along the lines of "So we've got *insert BL author here* working on a new book detailing the secret orgins of the blood ravens! you guys are gonna love it. wait till you find out who their primarch is! (it's not magnus)" we proably should take any statement on their definitive orgins with a grain of salt.
for the record, I'd LOOOVE "secret orgins" novel. but I think no matter what answer we got for that it'd end up dissapointing
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2017/07/17 00:01:33
Subject: Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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BrianDavion wrote: for the record, I'd LOOOVE "secret orgins" novel. but I think no matter what answer we got for that it'd end up dissapointing
Exactly. And that is why such an origins novel for the Blood Ravens is a bad idea and hopefully will never be written. Mysteries are only interesting for as long as they remain mysteries.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/17 00:01:49
Error 404: Interesting signature not found
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2017/07/17 00:18:56
Subject: Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Norn Queen
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Probably. Papa Smurf Primaris probably knows they would be fine to use but also knows the Imperium at large is already cracking at the seams with him returning and telling the people in power off already, so will tell Cawl to keep it under wraps.
I predict a plotline where Tzeentch screams "JUST AS KEIKAKUED" and steals the traitor geneseed primaris, then Abaddon flies into the warp on a pony and punches him in the face and gives them to Fabius to clone.
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2017/07/17 02:05:53
Subject: Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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BaconCatBug wrote:Probably. Papa Smurf Primaris probably knows they would be fine to use but also knows the Imperium at large is already cracking at the seams with him returning and telling the people in power off already, so will tell Cawl to keep it under wraps.
I predict a plotline where Tzeentch screams "JUST AS KEIKAKUED" and steals the traitor geneseed primaris, then Abaddon flies into the warp on a pony and punches him in the face and gives them to Fabius to clone.
except when Gulliman forbid it, it was in a private conversation
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2017/07/17 04:52:56
Subject: Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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My mate has a theory that the marines will be forming back into legions again, since they are using the Primaris 'Lieutenant' and that rank was only used before the split.
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Flesh Eaters 4,500 points
" I will constantly have those in my head telling me how lazy and ugly and whorish I am. You sir, are a true friend " - KingCracker
"Nah, I'm just way too lazy to stand up so I keep sitting and paint" - Sigur
"I think the NMM technique with metals is just MNMM. Same sound I make while eating a good pizza" - Whalemusic360 |
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2017/07/17 07:28:27
Subject: Has cawl already created primaris marines from the traitor legions?
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
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nerdfest09 wrote:My mate has a theory that the marines will be forming back into legions again, since they are using the Primaris 'Lieutenant' and that rank was only used before the split.
The Primaris are already fighting as a Legion, and some Chapters still use Lieutenant (and Lieutenant Commander).
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