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Makes me a little bit jealous as Orks.

Seriously though, 50 man Conscript squads just don't die, and then with FRSRF commands/fall back and shoot commands, they can get SO many shots (4 shots each at 12", up to 200! ). And here I was thinking Ork Shoota Boyz were shooty.

Throw in some Manitcores/Wyverns, and maybe a super heavy; you've got so much firepower - and that's before the Heavy Weapon Team spam. XD

Not sure if I'm complaining or not - That amount of firepower just decimates 30 man squads, even with a 5+ KFF. Even if you get to melee, they fall back, and shoot you with everything they've got.

I think I need more Kommando squads to tie things up; but terrain can make it tough to get there in melee (-2 charge distance is brutal).

Thoughts on dealing with IG shooting as an Ork, and in general?

Now imagine trying to fight them as Death Guard with 7 models per 50 Conscript unit...

I'm unsure how to fight IG as any army currently. Better tacticians who have a better knowledge of the Indexes will probably comment soon but I am having a hard time seeing anyone beat a semi well built IG list.
Hopefully the rumour about IG infantry units going up in point cost comes true

I could care less about the IG. I have no idea how to deal with the nids who can get charges on turn one and have tons of Monstrous Creatures who shred you.

IG wouldn't need a points increase instead they just need the conscripts maximum squad sizes reduced. Way to early to ask for nerfs before the rules are even out.

That sounds utterly fearsome; I may have to add an infantry blob or two as allies just to give me an excuse to paint some Cadians.

Broxus, the rules are out. You can go to a store and check out their shop copy.

@Tiberius501

Yeah; I'm not sure what a 7 man squad would do vs 50 Conscripts. Average math says that 50 Conscripts at 1 shot each will do on average a total of 1.8 unsaved wounds versus Sv3+; but this can spike incredibly high depending how the dice fall.

And that's only 1 shot each - realistically it'll be 2-4 shots each, depending on range (thanks orders!).

Hitting on 4+ and wounding on 3+, with Conscripts receiving their 5+ save has you looking on average to need about 150.15 shots to clear out a full squad in one go - an unrealistic amount of firepower for any army to deliver upon a single unit.

But this thread isn't just about Conscripts - it's about the entire combined might of the Astra Militarum.

I agree with you, I think any army will have a hard time beating a semi-decently built AM/IG army - they can field so many solid infantry and vehicles together, that it's nearly impossible to deal with it all in a reasonable manner. Vehicles are much more durable nowadays, and can output a ton of firepower (looking at you Taurox Prime, with your 20 Taurox Gatling shots); Manticores, Wyverns, and Basilisk will ruin your day from across the table, without line of sight, and get anywhere from 1-4d6 per unit.

We'll see what the first FAQ holds, along with the Codexes.

My perspective is only from an Ork players, but let me tell you, it doesn't feel fun when the AM/IG can bring... more of everything to the table than you - infantry, durable tanks (and more of them), better deep striking troops (plasma scions > everything) - and their units have better BS, range, and damage at a cheaper price. I realize I'm complaining about a gunline army being able to outshoot a horde army (one with notoriously poor to-hit); but when you do reach melee, and then they just fall back AND shoot your face in with the retreating squad, plus the rest of the army, it's just :shrug:. And don't even get me started on the super heavies/titans they can bring to the table - good luck dealing with them via Tankbustas.

I'd like Orks to be able to do more than just push a tide of models forward and hope you get lucky enough to have them miss most of their shots before you hit melee. I want to roll a lot of dice, even if I don't hit much, with my guns - and not feel like the only thing I can ever do is hope to get in melee with my faction, at the cost of being able to do anything else.

Maybe Orks aren't for me as a faction - but I doubt that's the case; I love the lore, I love the models, and I love the general hilarity that is the Ork faction as a whole. And when the green tide hits melee... :CHOPPA:

Commissars are T3, 3 wounds and a 5+ save.

Bring snipers.

Well first of all, you will have a hard time finding an IG player who is running around with hundreds of conscripts. Few have the patience to field/paint that many. Secondly, I already told you how to beat IG as orks in the other thread:

My brother is an ork player. Here is the advice I have given him:

You have no other option but to rush. IG excel at range & our artillery decimates. The faster you get into melee, the better.

If your opponent is using tanks he will be wasting most of his points on them. Bring some cheap transports/warbuggies etc & just charge & smash into them. If they have a screen of conscripts, just use weird boy jump & shoot open a pocket to get your vehicles through. They will be forced to keep falling back, unable to shoot. Meanwhile the rest of your boyz advance & tear them apart.

If he has mostly infantry you need to think of your opponent like an M&M. Hard outer shell, soft inside. If you break through their initial conscript outer line you can push in & wipe out HWT's etc. How? Use several weird boyz that teleport in lots of shootas etc. Use splitfire, choose your targets wisely & you will catch many out of cover meaning you will likely kill them. You can also throw in some kommandos to create more chaos. Your remaining boyz need to be close behind ready to charge shortly after.

Yep. My leafblower guard is coming back. 150 guardsmen. All painted. I may add more depending on when I get the index and write the list.

fe40k wrote:


Seriously though, 50 man Conscript squads just don't die,

Wow man you are so cool the Conscripts meme

charge into them with rhinos/other high t vehicle? they'll have to fall back, yes they can use an order to now shoot but it uses up that order and defo stops them doing 4x shots.

I was fielding 200+ fully painted guardsmen in 7th and they generally did ok. I'm a bit worried that if I do the same thing in 8th people are just going to be more annoyed

 DoomMouse wrote:
I was fielding 200+ fully painted guardsmen in 7th and they generally did ok. I'm a bit worried that if I do the same thing in 8th people are just going to be more annoyed

Do you... do you have movement trays?

Seems like a simple solution would be to not allow Conscripts to take orders...they are, after all, conscripts and poorly trained.

The problem with blobs of troops is that they're immune to morale tests with some very simple additions and mechanics.

The balancing factor in 8th edition against gigantic blobs of troops should be morale, but it simply doesn't apply when it should. If you light up the conscripts and kill 10 of them, they shouldn't be able to shoot someone in the head and call it all good. They should take the battleshock test the same way everyone else does.

The old balancing factor was templates, and AP that could slay them easily on most weapons. Both of these have been nerfed into oblivion.

broxus wrote:
I could care less about the IG.

So you DO care about Imperial guard? I think you meant to say "I couldn't care less"

I keep hearing about these big conscript blobs as being the future, however, they die quick.

 Hollow wrote:

broxus wrote:
I could care less about the IG.

So you DO care about Imperial guard? I think you meant to say "I couldn't care less"

I keep hearing about these big conscript blobs as being the future, however, they die quick.

Shed some light, how are you killing them?

By reminding the person planning to build them how long they'll take to paint?

As amusing as it is to math out, I think the all-Conscript army is likely to remain pure mathhammer unless some very determined, very patient player brings them to a tournament. You'll pretty much never see them in normal play, it's just too many models for a typical player to manage. Not to mention how expensive it would be to buy all those models (re-cast/china-cast aside), since they use the same models as infantry squads.

As long as they don't reach a certain critical mass they're fine, and I don't think most people will have enough models to get them to critical mass.

I don't have access to the new army books atm being in China and won't be back to the UK until July so can somebody tell me about how HWT squads play now? They were damn awful before, and I know ID is gone but there are a multitude of multiple damage weapons so don't know if that offsets it. Are they playable now? What differences do they have in 8th that will help them?

Wow man... who, 6 months ago, could expect that the most OP armies in 8th could be Orks, Tyranids and Imperial Guard?

Talk about shaking the meta!

You'll see me with a 50-man blob on Conscripts.

I already have one. One. I don't plan to make another. It's $100 per block of conscripts if you use the cheap snap-fit models, $150 if you use regular guardsmen boxes.

Conscripts have terrible dollars-to-points efficiency and are tedium to paint and build.



As for killing them, field big blobs of infantry of your own. Or, anything with a Vulcan Mega-Bolter or Punisher Cannon.

 Purifier wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
I was fielding 200+ fully painted guardsmen in 7th and they generally did ok. I'm a bit worried that if I do the same thing in 8th people are just going to be more annoyed

Do you... do you have movement trays?

No, I've not needed them yet... The models are all varnished and built to be as hard-wearing as possible so I can just tip them onto the battlefield to speed up deployment. I am thinking about making some movement trays for 8th though, as there's no longer any downside to having solid ranks of infantry! I rarely don't finish games in tournament time limits. Efficient play and the GW assault dice app make life easier. Plus I kept a reference sheet of everything I'd need to look up on hand.

I genuinely think that conscripts were almost as powerful in 7th as they are in 8th, but people didn't mind it as much as you had to bolt on a couple of reasonably-costed tax units. I think GW made a mistake in making them a standard troops option without limits tbh. I wouldn't be unhappy if they were increased to 4pts and guardsmen to 5pts. I could still take 200 conscripts plus support characters for <1000pts!

 ross-128 wrote:
By reminding the person planning to build them how long they'll take to paint?

As amusing as it is to math out, I think the all-Conscript army is likely to remain pure mathhammer unless some very determined, very patient player brings them to a tournament. You'll pretty much never see them in normal play, it's just too many models for a typical player to manage. Not to mention how expensive it would be to buy all those models (re-cast/china-cast aside), since they use the same models as infantry squads.

As long as they don't reach a certain critical mass they're fine, and I don't think most people will have enough models to get them to critical mass.

to be fair I don't know a single guard person who doesn't have almost 100 infantry models. I play DKOK guard and orks and I have about 150 of each infantry. They are cheap as chips. Ffs guard models are easily available in the secondary market or 3rd party manufacturers and one of the easiest model to collect. They style of guard models haven't changed since 2nd edition. My second edition orks are tiny compared to current ork models and my steel legion models make a perfect conscript squad for my DKOK. Unfortunately I only have 68 steellegion infantry models and 60 DKOK infantry models. 10 plasmagunners, 8 meltagunners, 7 flamers, like 4 of each heavy weapon team. (And various other units like a dozen sergeants, commanders, medics, vox casters, so anyone who has played guard or orks have a crap ton of infantry this isn't theory hammer. It's not terribly hard for me to paint another 30 infantry to spam another squad of conscripts in a month.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
You'll see me with a 50-man blob on Conscripts.

I already have one. One. I don't plan to make another. It's $100 per block of conscripts if you use the cheap snap-fit models, $150 if you use regular guardsmen boxes.

Conscripts have terrible dollars-to-points efficiency and are tedium to paint and build.



As for killing them, field big blobs of infantry of your own. Or, anything with a Vulcan Mega-Bolter or Punisher Cannon.

If you get creative (and a little heretical) you can get a mass of mutants to use as conscripts if you use the old Eye of Terror mix and matching. I remember one example used a spare pair of legs, an Ork head, some zombie armies and a marauder head to make one.

Yeah. I have 200 guard models (official gw guard models) plus about 100 cultist models that can be repurposed quickly. Buying another 200 guard models wouldn't bother me. I can paint 100 in a weekend. Spray grey. Black boots and rifles. Flesh faces. Three color standard.

Alternatively, commission a Skaven player to do it for you. Remember those days? :3

gungo wrote:

 ross-128 wrote:
By reminding the person planning to build them how long they'll take to paint?

As amusing as it is to math out, I think the all-Conscript army is likely to remain pure mathhammer unless some very determined, very patient player brings them to a tournament. You'll pretty much never see them in normal play, it's just too many models for a typical player to manage. Not to mention how expensive it would be to buy all those models (re-cast/china-cast aside), since they use the same models as infantry squads.

As long as they don't reach a certain critical mass they're fine, and I don't think most people will have enough models to get them to critical mass.

to be fair I don't know a single guard person who doesn't have almost 100 infantry models. I play DKOK guard and orks and I have about 150 of each infantry. They are cheap as chips. Ffs guard models are easily available in the secondary market or 3rd party manufacturers and one of the easiest model to collect. They style of guard models haven't changed since 2nd edition. My second edition orks are tiny compared to current ork models and my steel legion models make a perfect conscript squad for my DKOK. Unfortunately I only have 68 steellegion infantry models and 60 DKOK infantry models. 10 plasmagunners, 8 meltagunners, 7 flamers, like 4 of each heavy weapon team. (And various other units like a dozen sergeants, commanders, medics, vox casters, so anyone who has played guard or orks have a crap ton of infantry this isn't theory hammer. It's not terribly hard for me to paint another 30 infantry to spam another squad of conscripts in a month.

One or two Conscript blobs is reasonable to achieve for sure, and probably a nice wound buffer to round out any IG list. They're also not likely to be too much of a pain to deal with. A significant speed-bump and hardy objective holder, but they're not going to break the game or anything.

The all-conscript army is roughly 550 Conscripts plus the supporting characters to give them orders and commissars. That is the list that is likely to remain pure mathhammer, as I'm sure very few people have 500+ models.

No one will do a straight up 550 conscripts when they can spam hvy weapons or scions or command squads as well. But it's seriously not unreasonable to immediately see 200-300 conscripts by the BAO which is the first major tournament. As stated above I can easily paint a handful more squads and have 200+ conscripts in a month and the other guy above me has 300 + conscripts. This isn't theory hammer. Unless there is a day 1 FAQ you WILL see 250-300 fully painted conscripts lists in less then a month. And I've seen many more pictures of well painted guard armies online with 300+ infantry. It's actually fairly common and looks extremely cool. I think you seriously underestimate guard players it's such a well established army. Heck many of the guard players who have 300+ infantry also have a dozen or more tanks and several baneblades or a baneblade and several FW superheavies. I have 6 leman russes (magnetized), 1 baneblade magnetized, 3 valkyires/vendetta and 1 FW vulture and 6 chimeras (only 2 tauroxs magnetised) and I don't think I have an abnormal guard army. Again not really a theory hammer.

Yeah I literally played the same guard army ive played since 5th in 8th and damn are those conscripts good. Ive always run 40-50 infantry and a 40-50man conscript blob with priest support and yarrick and the powr those conscripts can put out with an officer is amazing. The main problem is that because blast and template weapons have become pretty poor against hordes there isnt much of a counter to it save sniping the characters and trying morale damage but thats actually quite tricky it seems. Maybe its just us adjusting to accepting the fact that taking a number of sniper units isnt just a points sink.anymore like it was in 7th

 Latro_ wrote:
charge into them with rhinos/other high t vehicle? they'll have to fall back, yes they can use an order to now shoot but it uses up that order and defo stops them doing 4x shots.

I lvoe that conscripts ar enow being treated as a unit you should tarpit, rather than as a tarpit unit. Something has gone horrifically wrong.