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In 8th, Banshee masks rule has two sentences that have me very confused.

Models in this unit always fight first in the Fight phase, even if they didn't charge. If the enemy has units that have charged, or that have a similar ability, then alternate choosing units to fight with, starting with the player whose turn is currently taking place.

The second sentence has me confused because it seems to suggest that when a banshee unit is charged you suspend the normal rules for the fight phase and do this. Since the fight phase appears to occur simultaneously across the board rather than fight by fight does this rule take over the normal sequence?

No. If Banshees get charged, they're likely to fight second.

So just for Clarity

The Order of when units get to fight is as follows...

1) Chargers: All units that charged. (Normally the controlling players turn, so normally no alternative here)
2) Normal Units Remaining in CC or that have been charged. Starting with the active players turn, alternate selecting units to fight.
3) Units that strike last maybe (is this even a thing?)

Normally, if the Banshees did not charge, they would fall in step 2 (like everyone else). However The Banshees create a new number in the list, looking like this...

1) Chargers & Units that "always go first: (Since there are units from both sides at this step)... Starting with the active players turn, alternate selecting units to fight.
2) Normal Units Remaining in CC or that have been charged. Starting with the active players turn, alternate selecting units to fight.
3) Units that strike last maybe (is this even a thing?)

So to make an example...
Space marine player vs Eldar.
1) Space Marine Player charged a unit of Howling Banshees with one Tactical Squad (Tac Squad #1). Then on the same turn charges a unit of Guardians with a second Squad (Tac Squad #2).
2) Now three units have the "always fight first" status... (Tac Squad #1, Tac Squad #2, and Howling Banshees)
3) Space Marine Player now has to choose which of his units will fight first from the 'always fight first' group. He Selects Tac Squad #1.
4) Now, the Howling Banshees Ability comes into play, and since they are alternating. The Eldar player can select a unit that 'always fights first'.. The Howling Banshees is the only unit they have here to select. So they now fight.
5) Tac Squad #2 is now selected as the last remaining 'always fight first' unit. They fight, then everyone else fights (those who did not have the 'always fight first' status.


I hope that Makes Sense.

The second sentence simply states that, if Banshees get charged (or fight against someone with a similar ability) you end up having two pools:

1. "Units that charged this turn + banshees & similar"
2. "Everyone else"

Within each pool of units, player alternate choosing a unit to fight which. The player whose turn is taking place start choosing the first unit.

It specifies this thing because the BRB assumes that only one player will have units in the first pool (because you can charge only during your turn)

It is odd, but it is the same as Daemonettes Quicksilver rule.
Basically, the player whose turn it is ALWAYS gets to fit with one of his units that charged first, no matter what

But after that, units with abilities like Banshee mask or Quicksilver get to alternate going.

Example: I charge with 2 units this turn. Unit A & B
Unit A successfully charged your Banshee unit.
Your banshee would go first, except I have units that charged and it is my turn.
So Unit A would attack first, then your Banshees, then my unit B.

After that, any of my units that was still in combat from a prior turn would get to attack. So my unit C would get to go before any of you other units.

So in most cases, Banshees will go second, unless they charge in which case they would go first anyway.

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thanks for the feedback, here is an example that might occur where I am most confused,

3 ork squads charge three eldar units 1 banshee and 2 dire avengers

If the banshees weren't involved the order would be
Ork1
Ork2
Ork3
all other units

But as you've suggested when banshees are involved the order would become
Ork1
Banshees
Ork2
Ork3
Avengers 1
Avengers2

but I actually read it as possibly

Ork1
Banshees
Ork2
Avengers1
Ork3
Avengers 2

because the banshees get involved their rule as I read it appears to change the process to alternation no longer prioritising chargers

Or have I got this wrong?

You've got it wrong there - just because the Banshees give you a chance to select a unit to fight earlier in the process than normally doesn't impact the remaining fight orders.

The correct order would be:

Ork 1
Banshee
Ork 2
Ork 3
Avengers 1
Avengers 2

Farseer_V2 wrote:
You've got it wrong there - just because the Banshees give you a chance to select a unit to fight earlier in the process than normally doesn't impact the remaining fight orders.

The correct order would be:

Ork 1
Banshee
Ork 2
Ork 3
Avengers 1
Avengers 2

Thats what I would have assumed but its not what the rules says,
If the enemy has units that have charged, or that have a similar ability, then alternate choosing units to fight with, starting with the player whose turn is currently taking place.

I see where you are coming from however I do not agree with your interpretation. I believe the wording to mean that you will alternate between charging units and units that strike out of sequence and when that has been resolved resume normal fight sequence.

I make that argument from the point that combats are each resolved separate. So in effect you alternate selecting eligible units to attack and in effect - outside a unit with a sequence break - units that did not charge are ineligible to attack before units that did.

All that said I think the wording as written is very easy to interpret the way you have done so and I see your point.

I am the ork player in this scenario and my buddy is the eldar player, we've agreed to play it as you've suggested because it would be bonkers to suggest that banshee masks overwrite the order of play whenever they're involved but I don't see this as an interpretation issue because the words seem to clearly state that charge priority is ignored across the board when banshees are involved anywhere in combat.

Is this an issue that may need faq?

I do not think it need to be FAQ. Just refer to the subjects of the rule: Units that have charged or have a 'strikes first" ability.

In your earlier example, the 2 Dire Avenger units are neither of those subjects, and thus not part of the rule being discussed. They still strike in normal order, which in this case would be last
Even if you had a Ork unit 4 that had not charged this turn, but in in combat, this unit would also strike before the DAs because it is the Ork player turn and you get to pick the first unit to fight AFTER all chargers and "strikes first" units

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