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Dionysodorus has it right, no more talk of what an 'army' is, thank goodness. And now you can have the Yncarne and an Avatar of Khaine, just in different detachments, but they will both affect any unit that is both Asuryani and Ynnari.

Also:

Page 242 – Understrength Units
Change the second paragraph to read:
‘If you are using Power Ratings, you must still pay the
Power Rating cost as if you had a minimum-sized unit,
even though it contains fewer models. If you are using
points, you only pay the points for the models you
actually have in an understrength unit (and any wargear
they are equipped with). An understrength unit still
takes up the appropriate slot in a Detachment.’

I think a single Ranger or Striking Scorpion Exarch transforming into the Yncarne will be a frequent strategy for me moving forward. I'm also considering a Ynnari Shining Spear Suicide Exarch to charge enemy vehicles.

Can we really justify a Wraithknight now? I don't think re-rolls (from Aeldari buff dealers)) will it to make it appear worthwhile compared to IKs.
Someone should ask the developers what were they thinking when they priced it ò_ó

Edit: oh and congrats GW for making abominations as above fully legal

The "understrength unit" thing still strikes me as obviously intended to be used in friendly games where someone doesn't have the models required rather than as a way to get more efficient units. I mean, it does say that you can only do this if "you do not have enough models".

That said, Eldar are in a great place to abuse this if not. Except for kill point concerns, and deployment count concerns for things you can't transport, it's going to make sense to take singleton Exarchs because of how ridiculously efficient they are.

43 points buys a Dark Reaper Exarch with a tempest launcher who can kill almost 2 MEQs per turn from out of LoS. A Swooping Hawk Exarch with a sunrifle for 21 points can debuff enemy hit rolls. 36 points gets a Shining Spear Exarch with 3 wounds, and 4 S8 AP-4 D2 attacks when he shoots and charges. Scorpion Exarchs are 19 points and have an okay chance of locking up enemy units in CC (though you may want to add another 1 or 2 Scorpions to make sure they survive). Howling Banshees can do the same thing out of a Serpent.

And of course you can also bring the Exarchs as a SfD trigger for bigger units, because they're often too dangerous to ignore.

But again I don't expect that most opponents are going to let you do this.

As of the FAQ, WotP can no longer work on Wraithknights, Hemlocks, or anything else that's no infantry, bikers, or the Yncarne.

Dionysodorus wrote:

fresus wrote:
The FAQ is out: https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/40K_8th_ed_Update_Index_Xenos_1_ver_1.0.pdf

No WotF on anything, just units that can soulburst.
No mixing of Ynnari with non-ynnari.
And Starcannons are D3 damage.

Actually the errata now allows the mixing of Ynnari and non-Ynnari, as long as they're in different detachments. This is a buff. The only thing you're not allowed to do now that you were before is include one of the three Ynnari HQs in a generic Aeldari detachment.

Agree. Now that things are cleared up it's possible to take an Ynnari detachment with a lot of SfD units coupled with - say - an Harlequin detachment that retains Rising Crescendo with all the good that comes from it.
We've got a lot to tinker on this.

Don't know if that starcannon nerf was needed, but whatever I guess.

Oups, I read it a bit too quickly, detachments are all or nothing, but we can mix detachments.

No soulburst for the unit inside a transport. I had interpreted it the other way. Seems fairer but a significant nerf.

Is it still best to run things like wraithguard in serpents and harlequins in starweavers?

Man the FAQ took a lot of wind out of my sail, but for fairness I think it is okay. I was having a lot of success charging skyweavers into combat and when they die soul bursting the guys inside. Oh well.

If I have a transport and Yvraine within 7" and the transport dies can I soul burst Yvraine and have her cast words of the Phoenix on the guys getting out of the transport?

Dionysodorus wrote:
The "understrength unit" thing still strikes me as obviously intended to be used in friendly games where someone doesn't have the models required rather than as a way to get more efficient units. I mean, it does say that you can only do this if "you do not have enough models".

My man. Hit it right on the head

 DanielFM wrote:
Woha! We sure needed the nerf!
Overpriced AF Wraithknight with no access to WotF? Check.
Overpriced, weak Starcannons? Check.
And why would you want to have half your army not being Ynnari? Rising Crescendo is nice, but the fewer units with SfD, the less bennefit as a whole army.

Kudos GW

Dark Eldar power from pain rules look mighty juicy.

I never counted too much on vehicles being able to soulburst with WotP, and planned my strategies accordingly.
Now more than ever I think the way is to go all-in on units that can fullfil multiple roles in the battlefield, kept together within the famous 7" one from the other. The aim is tearing the enemy apart using dreamlike Soulburst chain reactions like FD taking (or finishing taking) down a vehicle or monster allowing [spiders/spectres/insert shooting unit] to fire into another, then shoot themselves finishing down a unit allowing some CC unit (like spears) to charge a weak unit, finishing it down and charge another in the charge phase.

A little ambitious. But this's the plan since the beginning when I started Ynnari: kill my opponent's army acting twice in each phase, while sitting down comfortably with a phone in my hand declaiming "Execute order 66".

Glad to see that WKnights are becoming even less of a thing.
Understrength units could be the single most amazing erratum for us. They will still be balanced somewhat by the kill points mechanic, but they're also a guaranteed soulburst if used correctly.

BertBert wrote:
Glad to see that WKnights are becoming even less of a thing.
Understrength units could be the single most amazing erratum for us. They will still be balanced somewhat by the kill points mechanic, but they're also a guaranteed soulburst if used correctly.

Yeah, it's great that if I like the Wraithknight model it will be as useful for me as a Gundam action figure, because it won't leave the cabinet. Overnerfing them because they were too powerful in 7th is idiotic and useless: it won't solve the damage from the past and only hurt the present edition.

And yeah, let's abuse an absurd rule in the most unfluffy way possible, while we are at it. Single exarch min-max, suicide models for the lulz... That's all so Eldar.

Clearly what our army needed. Nerfed centerpieces (and Starcannons) and gamey crutches to be abused. Thanks GW

 DanielFM wrote:

BertBert wrote:
Glad to see that WKnights are becoming even less of a thing.
Understrength units could be the single most amazing erratum for us. They will still be balanced somewhat by the kill points mechanic, but they're also a guaranteed soulburst if used correctly.

Yeah, it's great that if I like the Wraithknight model it will be as useful for me as a Gundam action figure, because it won't leave the cabinet. Overnerfing them because they were too powerful in 7th is idiotic and useless: it won't solve the damage from the past and only hurt the present edition.

And yeah, let's abuse an absurd rule in the most unfluffy way possible, while we are at it. Single exarch min-max, suicide models for the lulz... That's all so Eldar.

Clearly what our army needed. Nerfed centerpieces (and Starcannons) and gamey crutches to be abused. Thanks GW

Yeah, less Knight type units are exactly what this game needs. They are a marketing ploy that spiralled out of control in 7th. I hope Flyers are next on the cutting block. If you really like your WKnight you can still use it - it's just not a no-brainer anymore.



Understrength units will probably be fixed, so don't get your panties in a bunch.

BertBert wrote:

 DanielFM wrote:

BertBert wrote:
Glad to see that WKnights are becoming even less of a thing.
Understrength units could be the single most amazing erratum for us. They will still be balanced somewhat by the kill points mechanic, but they're also a guaranteed soulburst if used correctly.

Yeah, it's great that if I like the Wraithknight model it will be as useful for me as a Gundam action figure, because it won't leave the cabinet. Overnerfing them because they were too powerful in 7th is idiotic and useless: it won't solve the damage from the past and only hurt the present edition.

And yeah, let's abuse an absurd rule in the most unfluffy way possible, while we are at it. Single exarch min-max, suicide models for the lulz... That's all so Eldar.

Clearly what our army needed. Nerfed centerpieces (and Starcannons) and gamey crutches to be abused. Thanks GW

Yeah, less Knight type units are exactly what this game needs. They are a marketing ploy that spiralled out of control in 7th. I hope Flyers are next on the cutting block. If you really like your WKnight you can still use it - it's just not a no-brainer anymore.



Understrength units will probably be fixed, so don't get your panties in a bunch.

Will they now. GW just had a chance to fix things and only made them worse.

pm713 wrote:

Will they now. GW just had a chance to fix things and only made them worse.

It doesn't have to be GW who fixes it. TOs will impose restrictions on things that are unwanted in a competitive setting and for casual games there's always the good old pre-game talk

In any case, GW will find a lot more issues they need to fix in 8th, so they might just put another caveat on the rule as a part of the next errata. All we can do is work with what we have at this point in time and for Ynnari single model units are quite handy.

BertBert wrote:

Yeah, less Knight type units are exactly what this game needs. They are a marketing ploy that spiralled out of control in 7th. I hope Flyers are next on the cutting block. If you really like your WKnight you can still use it - it's just not a no-brainer anymore.

Yet the Imperial Knight is now properly costed and we will still keep seeing armies made by 4 IK and nothing else. GW sure fixed the problem by only shafting Eldar players ¬¬
It's not that it's no longer a no brainer. It's that it lost most things making it different from the Imperial Knight, but they made it far more expensive than the IK for no reason whatsoever.
We have every reason to be salty about it.

BertBert wrote:

Understrength units will probably be fixed, so don't get your panties in a bunch.

Will they now. GW just had a chance to fix things and only made them worse.

Yep, that's here to stay. But if people wasn't so eager to explit it, that rule would not be a problem. They explicitly state it was made for people unable to field a whole unit, not for people to use it as an underhanded dirty trick.

 Bloodshade wrote:
A little ambitious.

It's within the realm of possibilty. However, to fully benefirt from SfD army must be quick so it could set up in the movement phase according to "death, nya!" plan. For a slow army SfD is just an opportunity to make occasional extra action a turn.

 DanielFM wrote:


Yet the Imperial Knight is now properly costed and we will still keep seeing armies made by 4 IK and nothing else. GW sure fixed the problem by only shafting Eldar players ¬¬
It's not that it's no longer a no brainer. It's that it lost most things making it different from the Imperial Knight, but they made it far more expensive than the IK for no reason whatsoever.
We have every reason to be salty about it.

I sincerely hope Imperial Knights will suffer a similar fate soon. As for being more expensive, they are deployed in a completely different context than knights, so of course they will be priced differently. Eldar have a lot of access to buffs, but having a WKnight shoot twice per turn would have made it a very prevalent choice for Ynnari, which I'm glad is not the case now.

 DanielFM wrote:


Yep, that's here to stay. But if people wasn't so eager to explit it, that rule would not be a problem. They explicitly state it was made for people unable to field a whole unit, not for people to use it as an underhanded dirty trick.

When has the game ever been played as intended by the designers? I don't think it's that terrible, really. Yes, there will be people who will abuse this by having a single model unit from every available unit type in order to maximise their command points and soulburst, but in the end you can always choose not to play these people. If you use it to get a few additional soulbursts while conceding easy killpoints to your enemy, I'd consider that a reasonable tradeoff. Your soulburst might not do as much as you expected and you might just have thrown the game by giving away a free victory point.

Also, more units means getting the first turn becomes more and more unlikely, so that's another tradeoff.

BertBert wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Will they now. GW just had a chance to fix things and only made them worse.

It doesn't have to be GW who fixes it. TOs will impose restrictions on things that are unwanted in a competitive setting and for casual games there's always the good old pre-game talk

In any case, GW will find a lot more issues they need to fix in 8th, so they might just put another caveat on the rule as a part of the next errata. All we can do is work with what we have at this point in time and for Ynnari single model units are quite handy.

It is GW's responsibility to fix it though.

Since the embarked unit can no longer soulburst from the destruction of its transport, there is now an alternative to that which does work by using understrength units:

If a transport is destroyed, any units embarked within it immediately disembark (see below) before the transport model is removed, but you must then roll one dice for each model you just set up on the battlefield. For each roll of 1, a model that disembarked (your choice) is slain.

So stick a single-model understrength unit in the transport, say, a storm guardian, and have him be the first casualty for any rolls of 1. We know he's setup and on the battlefield, so as soon as he's slain the other unit that was in the transport (wraithscythes perhaps) can soulburst.

I wouldn't keep any faith that the understrength rule will be left working in this way in events where played game matters like tournaments. It's GW's fault once again, they always think in a innocent way that touches pure foolishness as they made the rule for the happy miniature collectors that want to field all of their models (where they could just play open or narrative and be absolutely fine).
I just think that is tournaments you'll hardly see that rule left untouched, so I wouldn't put too much confidence in this kind of tricks.

Also, too many units means the opponent always starts first doing his stuff.

So I'm a little vague on the Transport rules. If I take a Ynnari transport (let's say a Venom) which normally only permits a certain type of Eldar from riding in it, and a squad of infantry who'd originally be from a different list (Banshees, for example), also as Ynnari, could they get in?

Nope, they still have to follow the (order) requirements for the transports, except for Yvraine, and her buddy.

 Mmmpi wrote:
Nope, they still have to follow the (order) requirements for the transports, except for Yvraine, and her buddy.

Sadly, that's how I read it too. Shame. Was looking forward to taking Starweavers instead of Venoms.

Played a 1500pt game vs Tau
My list was
Yvraine
Shadowseer
Troupe master with caress and fusion psitol

Solitaire

5 players with caress in starweaver (with Shadowseer)
5 players with caress in starweaver (with Yvraine )
5 players with embrace and fusion in starweaver (with troupe master)
5 players with embrace and fusion in starweaver

Shining spears with exarch and star Lance

Trying out with the new rules of no soul burst out of vehicles and no words of the Phoenix on vehicles. Having 6 drops I got to go first and it was pretty brutal. I had two starweavers up against my board edge. One with the Shadowseer and the other with the fusion troupe master. Get out 3 inches, move 9 inches twilight pathways the starweaver 16 inches. I was able to cross the board turn one surprising my opponent. On the other side of the board Yvraine got out and words of the phoenix the shining spears again crossing the board. I really like this strategy as it is the fastest way to get our guys across the board well worth the price of the Shadowseer for sure.

Invulnerable saves are pretty crazy, while my opponent fusion commanders can easily tear through rhinos they have a lot more trouble when they are now hitting on 3+ and half the shots are blocked by the save. My opponent thought she would be able to kill my starweavers but she couldn't. I was rolling hot blocking the fusion and that left the commanders out in the open. If she could have popped the starweavers my players would have been easily shot up and killed by fire warrior vollies. It was too bad.

On my turn I was able to kill her riptides and two of the three of her commanders. I was then able to run away with the game with her unable to dish out the damage necessary to kill off my players.

The invul saves really are crazy. I know I was rolling hot but our starweavers can be really tough if you get lucky. I found the shinning spears just okay, I think I will be using scourge instead as they are better taking out tanks which is what I think I need.

Well, this is what Harlequins can do. This time your opponent got absolutely no clue about your army and got surprised, it won't take much time before they learn not to deploy close. I'm on my 7th game with Harleys and my opponents will never allow me to charge T1 with anymore, they know the distances by now.

Did you find the full FP to be enough as AT? And against other armies? We was discussing this in the Harlequin's community the other day.

 Bloodshade wrote:
Well, this is what Harlequins can do. This time your opponent got absolutely no clue about your army and got surprised, it won't take much time before they learn not to deploy close. I'm on my 7th game with Harleys and my opponents will never allow me to charge T1 with anymore, they know the distances by now.

Did you find the full FP to be enough as AT? And against other armies? We was discussing this in the Harlequin's community the other day.

I also had many successful 1st turn charges the first few games I played (mostly with Skyweavers and Rising Crescendo), but now it's much less common, because people are indeed aware of the trick.
In this case, lambsandlions used psychic powers to have double movement. So it's a 32" movement, then a normal charge. Even if the enemy deploys far back, on many maps you can reach stuff T1 with this kind of movement.

 Bloodshade wrote:
Well, this is what Harlequins can do. This time your opponent got absolutely no clue about your army and got surprised, it won't take much time before they learn not to deploy close. I'm on my 7th game with Harleys and my opponents will never allow me to charge T1 with anymore, they know the distances by now.

Did you find the full FP to be enough as AT? And against other armies? We was discussing this in the Harlequin's community the other day.

I am thinking about adding scourge because I want more range on my anti-tank. When the fusion connects it is great but when they get first turn and blow up the starweaver it can be difficult. But with 5 fusion I can reliably take out most transports.

fresus wrote:
I also had many successful 1st turn charges the first few games I played (mostly with Skyweavers and Rising Crescendo), but now it's much less common, because people are indeed aware of the trick.
In this case, lambsandlions used psychic powers to have double movement. So it's a 32" movement, then a normal charge. Even if the enemy deploys far back, on many maps you can reach stuff T1 with this kind of movement.

Skyweavers can get all 32" and with 6" for fusion I can usually shoot turn one. Jet bikes also get that 32" with wotp but what I have been enjoying is turn 1 blitz solitaire and wotp averages out to be 38" plus a charge, perfect for tying up units or going after characters. 10 s5 ap-2 hits is also nice. Not much can hide from that range of movement.

 lambsandlions wrote:
I am thinking about adding scourge because I want more range on my anti-tank. When the fusion connects it is great but when they get first turn and blow up the starweaver it can be difficult. But with 5 fusion I can reliably take out most transports.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Playing 100% Harlequins (when I don't play Ynnari) I had same problem and ended up throwing in 3 Voidweavers just for a little bit of extra AT, but otherwise if you don't get T1 you should hide the Starweavers AMAP while advancing and try to make the jump t2.

 lambsandlions wrote:
Skyweavers can get all 32" and with 6" for fusion I can usually shoot turn one. Jet bikes also get that 32" with wotp but what I have been enjoying is turn 1 blitz solitaire and wotp averages out to be 38" plus a charge, perfect for tying up units or going after characters. 10 s5 ap-2 hits is also nice. Not much can hide from that range of movement.

Skyweavers can't have fusions, though. Good for charging what you want given that humungous 32" movement, but you can't do the trick on Starweavers neither (thank FAQs).