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luke1705 wrote:How do you guys feel about the Skatach Wraithknights? I know they're more points but getting the drop turn 1 and never getting shot before they shoot (well except Tau) is pretty nice, plus I think both the Inferno Lance and the Deahshroud cannon is better than any of the normal WK options.
I am unsure if you play ITC or not, but I believe there is going to be a ban on PL31+ units. I think the Skatach is 32?
Well that would be sad. I do think that it's a tough distinction as to what should be allowed. Might be worth some discussion in a different thread.
I've been playing around with a ynnari army which has a solid core of 2 units of warp spiders, unit of shadow spectres, hemlock and warlock sky runner both with conceal.
Then backed up by a Phoenix and swooping Hawks and eldrad and yvraine. And a couple of razorwing flock for soulburst.
Hemlock conceals all first turn and then warlock takes over conceal duties while the hemlock smites. Swooping Hawks and Phoenix with nightfire missiles add additional -1 to hit modifiers to problem units.
It has proven pretty effective in circumstances and dishes out a whole lot of Str 6 attacks. It is fairly reliant on its psychic phase and certain models can really disrupt it.
Unfortunately the wording on the hawks and the nightfire missiles means the -1 to hit only lasts til end of turn. Which does help in close combat if you jump in. Also can help when you can soulburst on your opponent's turn to apply the modifier.
It is a very mobile force tho but being elite expensive units there is not a lot of padding. It also engages at short range making it a balancing act of getting too close and exposing it to too much firepower (especially in deployment) and being too far away to actually do anything. But -2 to hit with a 2+ save when in cover is a fairly survivable unit.
And the flamer mode on the spectres guns help with the close combat weakness. Tho the whole army having fly is really good. Makes them difficult to pin down especially in combat. I've had a few opponents get their ordering in combat wrong allowing me to soulburst out of danger.
Hi everyone,
As anticipated, today I’ve put my harlequins aside one more time to test out a new version of my Ynnari.
I was facing my good ol' opponent, he brought one of his armies this time (Nids), in the shape of a tournament list with a pretty straightforward battle plan: to not even let me play my first turn. Swarmy+3 tyrant guards, brood lord, 3+3 hive guards, 20+20 genestealers, 20 gaunts (10 dakka, 10 vanilla), 3 Venompthrothings, 2 Trygon primes.
I’m using version two of the list that got trashed by LeBalanced Astra Militarium. I found the rules for spectres at last (I couldn’t wait for trying them) and I cut off some stuff to make room for them. Double outrider detachment, first with milady Yvraine, 4 Spectres+exarch, 2x4Spears+exarch, 4xFlocks, 4 Reapers+Exarch, Hemlock. Second one with Yncarne, 10+10 Hellions, 4xFlocks, 4 Reapers+Exarch.
He left out both trygons with 20 genestealers and 20 gaunt to burst out after them. Basically, he had so few units that I only deployed razorwing flocks unit he was done. That made him think pretty hard not having clues of what I was planning to do to avoid his EVIDENT alpha strike. I had to chose map and opted for Hammer and Anvil and deployed as far as I could from him.
And I had (kinda) of a plan. He had to deploy everything within some sort of 9-12” to both his synapsis and venomthrostuffs, so he was bound to his genestealers to sling them with Swarmy basically where he wanted, plus the trygons and their stuff coming first turn also. I deployed my razorwings to make a “barrier” through which he couldn’t charge (without shooting at them first) and 7” from that line I deployed basically all my shooting stuff, so that for each RW dead I had a soulburst on the geno or whatever I felt like blasting. He welcomed my move with a series of friendly insults and jokes, but praised the idea and in fact I managed to hold him back a little, as the genestealers only destroyed those poor flappy birds and he didn’t manage to charge my stuff behind.
Things weren’t that good though, I had 2 Trygons, a 40sh of stealers and some dakkagaunt to take care of, and the smiling (?) Swarmlord in the second wave. At the end of my turn 1 had only had two flocks remaining, but I spent them for a ton of useful soulbursting and spears-spectres-hemlock managed to do a crazy ton of work. Gene+Brood are still OP and they could cut a way through my lines to kill those reapers who were literally gaking on his army. I had the Yncarne battling Swarmy and that was epic. More about it later.
In the end - with a little help from the dice ending the game on turn 5 - we had both 1 objective, so a hard-fought draw for me this time, not an easy task against a skilled opponent and an aggressive army.
Probably without the Hammer and Anvil deployment I couldn’t do any trick, but the fact that we can shoot from our dying screens is gold.
Time for school marks:
- Yvraine: I’ll marry her this summer, so yeah, between us all is well. Jokes aside, the reapers had good targets and she provided an extra shot each turn quite regularly, plus being awesome, plus other random help in CC. 9/10
- Yncarne: this big boy had a good time vs Swarmy, who had more wounds, attacks and Strength, but looses power over time. In the end, each Wound I did counted more, each he did wasn’t useful for crippling me. I rolled a juicy 6 on damage during the second turn of CC, taking him down to 5, at that point even though he rolled the s**t out of his 4++, Swarmy was doomed. He killed the Yncarne soon after, but it was worth. 8/10
- Spectres: jeez. Tell me again about their flamers, baby. And their -1 to be hit. And their other gun profile that generates more hits if you roll well. THAT’S the unit I was looking for. Born to be Ynnari. 9/10
- Spears: now we’re talking. The target for them is very important, vs AM that simply couldn’t do enough. 7/10
- Razorwing Flocks: tactical MVP. Running 8 of them is a risk in case of KP, but I noticed a big difference from 6 to 8. 9/10
- Reapers: that’s pure heavy metal man! Tell me again about that pair of Trygons my opponent had! 10/10
- Hemlock: I already tried him out 2 or 3 matches ago, but this time he took more of the support role, which I think he fits in well. Hard to take down, it simply moves in squares around the map shooting his S8 stuff and casting conceal where it sees fit. A solid 7/10
That’s all folks!
" Of course I can give you some hints, whelp. Surprisingly, for free.
First, alway stay sharp. They'll come, you'll be ready. Focus, think fast, act accordingly.
Two. Money, power, influence, sex, safety of your loved ones... no matter what, you have a weakness among those. Find it and defeat it. You don't need it. You'll be unbreakable.
Third. In a hundred years everyone on this damned sand grain of a planet will be dead. Keep that in mind before you rush the situation and kill someone. Time'll do it.
And remember, we do not sell drugs, this is the best advice I can give you. Will save your clean face one day"
Hi everyone,
As anticipated, today I’ve put my harlequins aside one more time to test out a new version of my Ynnari.
I was facing my good ol' opponent, he brought one of his armies this time (Nids), in the shape of a tournament list with a pretty straightforward battle plan: to not even let me play my first turn. Swarmy+3 tyrant guards, brood lord, 3+3 hive guards, 20+20 genestealers, 20 gaunts (10 dakka, 10 vanilla), 3 Venompthrothings, 2 Trygon primes.
I’m using version two of the list that got trashed by LeBalanced Astra Militarium. I found the rules for spectres at last (I couldn’t wait for trying them) and I cut off some stuff to make room for them. Double outrider detachment, first with milady Yvraine, 4 Spectres+exarch, 2x4Spears+exarch, 4xFlocks, 4 Reapers+Exarch, Hemlock. Second one with Yncarne, 10+10 Hellions, 4xFlocks, 4 Reapers+Exarch.
He left out both trygons with 20 genestealers and 20 gaunt to burst out after them. Basically, he had so few units that I only deployed razorwing flocks unit he was done. That made him think pretty hard not having clues of what I was planning to do to avoid his EVIDENT alpha strike. I had to chose map and opted for Hammer and Anvil and deployed as far as I could from him.
And I had (kinda) of a plan. He had to deploy everything within some sort of 9-12” to both his synapsis and venomthrostuffs, so he was bound to his genestealers to sling them with Swarmy basically where he wanted, plus the trygons and their stuff coming first turn also. I deployed my razorwings to make a “barrier” through which he couldn’t charge (without shooting at them first) and 7” from that line I deployed basically all my shooting stuff, so that for each RW dead I had a soulburst on the geno or whatever I felt like blasting. He welcomed my move with a series of friendly insults and jokes, but praised the idea and in fact I managed to hold him back a little, as the genestealers only destroyed those poor flappy birds and he didn’t manage to charge my stuff behind.
Things weren’t that good though, I had 2 Trygons, a 40sh of stealers and some dakkagaunt to take care of, and the smiling (?) Swarmlord in the second wave. At the end of my turn 1 had only had two flocks remaining, but I spent them for a ton of useful soulbursting and spears-spectres-hemlock managed to do a crazy ton of work. Gene+Brood are still OP and they could cut a way through my lines to kill those reapers who were literally gaking on his army. I had the Yncarne battling Swarmy and that was epic. More about it later.
In the end - with a little help from the dice ending the game on turn 5 - we had both 1 objective, so a hard-fought draw for me this time, not an easy task against a skilled opponent and an aggressive army.
Probably without the Hammer and Anvil deployment I couldn’t do any trick, but the fact that we can shoot from our dying screens is gold.
Time for school marks:
- Yvraine: I’ll marry her this summer, so yeah, between us all is well. Jokes aside, the reapers had good targets and she provided an extra shot each turn quite regularly, plus being awesome, plus other random help in CC. 9/10
- Yncarne: this big boy had a good time vs Swarmy, who had more wounds, attacks and Strength, but looses power over time. In the end, each Wound I did counted more, each he did wasn’t useful for crippling me. I rolled a juicy 6 on damage during the second turn of CC, taking him down to 5, at that point even though he rolled the s**t out of his 4++, Swarmy was doomed. He killed the Yncarne soon after, but it was worth. 8/10
- Spectres: jeez. Tell me again about their flamers, baby. And their -1 to be hit. And their other gun profile that generates more hits if you roll well. THAT’S the unit I was looking for. Born to be Ynnari. 9/10
- Spears: now we’re talking. The target for them is very important, vs AM that simply couldn’t do enough. 7/10
- Razorwing Flocks: tactical MVP. Running 8 of them is a risk in case of KP, but I noticed a big difference from 6 to 8. 9/10
- Reapers: that’s pure heavy metal man! Tell me again about that pair of Trygons my opponent had! 10/10
- Hemlock: I already tried him out 2 or 3 matches ago, but this time he took more of the support role, which I think he fits in well. Hard to take down, it simply moves in squares around the map shooting his S8 stuff and casting conceal where it sees fit. A solid 7/10
That’s all folks!
Hemlock is s10 shooting just for corrections sake (for those random people who use dakka for their rulebook )
Good write up! Glad things went pretty well for you. I love spectres they are auto include in my Ynnari.
Just a note, and maybe this was followed, but remember that you cannot deploy more than half your army in reserves. So just be careful to watch how many drops your opponent leaves off the board because maybe he forgot, or just didnt know. FULL null deploys are no longer a thing.
I think you have definitely touched on the aeldari units that benefit most from soulburst, with the exception of probably fire dragons as well.
I have also been toying with the idea of running a corsair unit or two as a bit of a screen for the deep strike charge. They won't help against the trygon but being able to overwatch on the genestealers and if they kill one falling back 3 inches should keep them out of charge range. Armed with shard carbines gives 3 shots per model at 11 ppm. So a unit of 10 comes in at not too much and throws out 30 shots on overwatch.
If you want screeners it's hard to do better than Razorwing Flocks. At first I was running some singletons to get more out of Soulburst, but now I use two 12-flock units and a Beastmaster. They're excellent early screeners that can keep up with your skimmers and bikes, and then they tie things up beautifully. They actually do okay damage with the Beastmaster there, and, while you'll often have better uses for it, Doom almost doubles their output.
Grizzyzz wrote: Hemlock is s10 shooting just for corrections sake (for those random people who use dakka for their rulebook )
Good write up! Glad things went pretty well for you. I love spectres they are auto include in my Ynnari.
Just a note, and maybe this was followed, but remember that you cannot deploy more than half your army in reserves. So just be careful to watch how many drops your opponent leaves off the board because maybe he forgot, or just didnt know. FULL null deploys are no longer a thing.
Cheers o7
Yep, S10. Mah bad. Thanks for pointing that out.
Nope, he was fine, 4 units in reserve (2 trygons, 1 geno, 1 gaunts) of about 10.
Wyldcarde wrote:Good write up.
I think you have definitely touched on the aeldari units that benefit most from soulburst, with the exception of probably fire dragons as well.
I have also been toying with the idea of running a corsair unit or two as a bit of a screen for the deep strike charge. They won't help against the trygon but being able to overwatch on the genestealers and if they kill one falling back 3 inches should keep them out of charge range. Armed with shard carbines gives 3 shots per model at 11 ppm. So a unit of 10 comes in at not too much and throws out 30 shots on overwatch.
Yeah. I ended up concluding that any unit that is good on its own benefits the most from soulburst. Good luck on gettin anything from Hekatrix Bloodbrides or Howling Banshees, just to say.
Corsairs sound fair enough, for that purpose. I just don't have many experience with Drukhari so I mostly run Craftworlders/Harlequins, but they sound good enough for your plan.
Beside that, Razorwing Flocks are probably the enabler for our army. Without them causing soulburst (and I'm saying this because could happen that they wil no longer provide that when the official codex releases) I find much harder to base an army on the rule like I tried to do in my recent games. Yes, rule's still pretty good and you'd choose it above Battle Focus anyways, but not that good without those flappy birds.
I completely missed their screening capabilities on previous matches, they're so versatile that now I cannot leave without at least 6x of them, better 8x, best (but non likely I'll do it even in Outrider detachments) 12x.
" Of course I can give you some hints, whelp. Surprisingly, for free.
First, alway stay sharp. They'll come, you'll be ready. Focus, think fast, act accordingly.
Two. Money, power, influence, sex, safety of your loved ones... no matter what, you have a weakness among those. Find it and defeat it. You don't need it. You'll be unbreakable.
Third. In a hundred years everyone on this damned sand grain of a planet will be dead. Keep that in mind before you rush the situation and kill someone. Time'll do it.
And remember, we do not sell drugs, this is the best advice I can give you. Will save your clean face one day"
It's not only working well on their own but also being at the range to benefit. So spectres, warp spiders and shining spears all operate well at the 6" range and are mobile enough to get there, so will naturally be in soulburst range when the enemy dies. Reapers not so much, but are a perfect target for word of the Phoenix. With flier spam becoming more prevelant reaper's worth is rising sharply.
And you are convincing me to field more flock. I currently have 3 or 4 x 1 for soulburst but may have to try out 2x 4 flocks.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/17 16:58:16
Yes. This is kinda what I had in mind when I first read the rules of Ynnari and thought: "OMG. Just got a nasty idea". I think I explained here the idea before going for the tests.
The part my army was missing were Shadow Spectres, having their rules was the turning point. Now, like you said, all army is optimised to play around razorwings and their death, basically going for what I aimed: "play twice and make it sound fair".
I think there's still room for optimising. I'll work on it and I'll post it here if I get satisfying results. It might require some spamming of "above average" units, but it has always worked like that.
" Of course I can give you some hints, whelp. Surprisingly, for free.
First, alway stay sharp. They'll come, you'll be ready. Focus, think fast, act accordingly.
Two. Money, power, influence, sex, safety of your loved ones... no matter what, you have a weakness among those. Find it and defeat it. You don't need it. You'll be unbreakable.
Third. In a hundred years everyone on this damned sand grain of a planet will be dead. Keep that in mind before you rush the situation and kill someone. Time'll do it.
And remember, we do not sell drugs, this is the best advice I can give you. Will save your clean face one day"
Now that flocks are more expensive and min size 3 are people still using them? Also what about d-scythe wraithguard in a serpent?
I play:
40K: Daemons, Tau
AoS: Blades of Khorne, Disciples of Tzeentch
Warmachine: Convergence of Cyriss
Infinity: Haqqislam, Tohaa
Malifaux: Bayou
Star Wars Legion: Republic & Separatists
MESBG: Far Harad, Misty Mountains
D6Damager wrote: Now that flocks are more expensive and min size 3 are people still using them? Also what about d-scythe wraithguard in a serpent?
No, Razorwings flocks are dead now. The points increase isn't the issue, it is the minimum unit size. For Ynnari, a single flock was ideal for Soulburst bait, but since you cannot do singles, all the opponent needs to do is kill 1-2 and the remaining flocks will flee, which DOES NOT provide a Soulburst
A large unit is an accompanying Beastmaster is ok, but ends up being a tons of points
D-scythes in serpents, on the other hand, seem to be a near mandatory inclusion for competitive players. I haven't seen many (successful) tournament lists without them.
If you can't find 2+ units in your list, take something out to fit them in.
D6Damager wrote: Now that flocks are more expensive and min size 3 are people still using them? Also what about d-scythe wraithguard in a serpent?
No, Razorwings flocks are dead now. The points increase isn't the issue, it is the minimum unit size. For Ynnari, a single flock was ideal for Soulburst bait, but since you cannot do singles, all the opponent needs to do is kill 1-2 and the remaining flocks will flee, which DOES NOT provide a Soulburst
A large unit is an accompanying Beastmaster is ok, but ends up being a tons of points
D-scythes in serpents, on the other hand, seem to be a near mandatory inclusion for competitive players. I haven't seen many (successful) tournament lists without them.
If you can't find 2+ units in your list, take something out to fit them in.
-
Yeah the points isnt the problem..... I do however use Claw Fiends and they work really well. They either shoot and kill them to give me a SB action or take -1ap multi S5 2D hits and tie up units in melee
I've been taking 3 units of 1, and they are fun and effective.
Shadow Spectres are pretty clutch, giving a solid unit to help deal with masses infantry while still having game against anything with Marine armour or equivalent.
I have found 2 units of D-Scythes in Serpents just too many points in too few units to be able to keep up with objective scoring. Yes they are solid, but that's 2/5ths of your army in 2 troops and their transports. Prob doesn't help in my army with 2 Hemlocks as I need those extra points for more mobile objective scoring units, but then I find the Hemlocks far more tactically versatile and they come in just over half the points of the Wraithguard with their transport.
Hi guys. It looks like we Ynnari players have been relegated from the Craftworlds thread (no bad blood! I understand it ). So I think it's a good moment to bring this thread back.
Have anyone read the Ynnari rules in the reboxed Triumvirate? I asume they are unchanged, but it's important to confirm it.
I think choosing the best way of combining the best bennefits from CWE and Ynnari is a good chance for renewed discussion.
Well, I can understand the pure CW players.
Ynnari requires different strategies and tactics to be successful at the battle field.
Atm, I'd consider a mix of CW and Ynnari detachments.
I'm willing to take shooty support units of type Alaitoc, say Rangers, DRs, and Fire Prisms.
On the other hand, units that need to go up and personal such as Fire Dragons and Wraithguard are better suited to benefit from SfD.
Former moderator 40kOnline
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Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
wuestenfux wrote: Well, I can understand the pure CW players.
Ynnari requires different strategies and tactics to be successful at the battle field.
Atm, I'd consider a mix of CW and Ynnari detachments.
I'm willing to take shooty support units of type Alaitoc, say Rangers, DRs, and Fire Prisms.
On the other hand, units that need to go up and personal such as Fire Dragons and Wraithguard are better suited to benefit from SfD.
Yep, thats what i would do, Alaitoc Rangers, Dark Reapers and Long Range in general, Ynnari Fire Dragons DSing etc...
Wyldcarde wrote: I would still run reapers as ynnari. Purely for word of the Phoenix.
Absolutely. However - being ynnari only means you lose battle focus. You don't lose your craftworld army trait.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
FDs and WG go into the Serpents accompanied by the Spiritseers for smite.
Why don't you put the WS in the Alaitoc detachment? they would benefit from the Alaitoc trait and allow units inside exactly the same. Plus they gain nothing from bein Ynnari.
Xenomancers wrote:
Wyldcarde wrote: I would still run reapers as ynnari. Purely for word of the Phoenix.
Absolutely. However - being ynnari only means you lose battle focus. You don't lose your craftworld army trait.
That's not right. Only a Craftworld detachment with no Ynnari models bennefit from a Craftworlds army trait.
FDs and WG go into the Serpents accompanied by the Spiritseers for smite.
Why don't you put the WS in the Alaitoc detachment? they would benefit from the Alaitoc trait and allow units inside exactly the same. Plus they gain nothing from bein Ynnari.
I absolutely agree. Remember that just because Ynnari units cannot be in CW detachment, does not mean they cannot still chose an CW keyword. Your Ynnari WG/Dragons can still be <Alaitoc> and thus be able to embark onto <Alaitoc> Serpents. The Serpents will get the -1 to hit Attribute as they are in a CW detachment, but the WG and Dragons will not because they are in an Ynnari detachment.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/30 17:08:17
Why don't you put the WS in the Alaitoc detachment? they would benefit from the Alaitoc trait and allow units inside exactly the same. Plus they gain nothing from bein Ynnari.
Right. I recognized this too late (by reading Galef's thread).
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
)
15k+
Beastmen 10k
). So I think it's a good moment to bring this thread back.
