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https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Warhammer_40000_Designers_Commentary-ENG.pdf

english version


via :

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/17/new-edition-now-available-read-the-rules-get-the-t-shirtgw-homepage-post-1/

''Q: Can you declare charges against units that are not
visible to the charging unit?
A: Yes.
Note however that the unit being charged still obeys the
normal rules for targeting when it fires Overwatch, and so,
if a model cannot see the charging unit, it will not be able to
fire Overwatch.''

Harlies are going to love this.

 Wyrlock wrote:
''Q: Can you declare charges against units that are not
visible to the charging unit?
A: Yes.
Note however that the unit being charged still obeys the
normal rules for targeting when it fires Overwatch, and so,
if a model cannot see the charging unit, it will not be able to
fire Overwatch.''

Harlies are going to love this.

T'au and AM won't

They seem to have clarified and cleared up all the main issues with the core rules people spotted.

Now we need index commentary to clear up all the issues in them.

Loopstah wrote:
They seem to have clarified and cleared up all the main issues with the core rules people spotted.

Now we need index commentary to clear up all the issues in them.

They have to wait a few days to pretend the questions came from people who bought the books.

Loopstah wrote:
They seem to have clarified and cleared up all the main issues with the core rules people spotted.

Now we need index commentary to clear up all the issues in them.

I saw nothing regarding assaulting infantry on ruins or Terrain when you can not get within 1in due to the unit taking up all the space.

 Wyrlock wrote:
''Q: Can you declare charges against units that are not
visible to the charging unit?
A: Yes.
Note however that the unit being charged still obeys the
normal rules for targeting when it fires Overwatch, and so,
if a model cannot see the charging unit, it will not be able to
fire Overwatch.''

Harlies are going to love this.

How does this apply? I don't get it? How do you charge something you can't see? Do you mean behind a wall, but the Harlies can attack because they are in range? So if this is the case, why can't they be overwatched since once in "view" the Tau or who ever can overwatch them. If not what would be the case then? I just don't get it.

Davor wrote:
How does this apply? I don't get it? How do you charge something you can't see? Do you mean behind a wall, but the Harlies can attack because they are in range? So if this is the case, why can't they be overwatched since once in "view" the Tau or who ever can overwatch them. If not what would be the case then? I just don't get it.

Because overwatch occurs at the exact place where the charging unit declares its charge.

So if the target of their charge is like, around the corner of a building and they can't see them, then they can't be overwatched, but they can still charge in just fine.

Davor wrote:

 Wyrlock wrote:
''Q: Can you declare charges against units that are not
visible to the charging unit?
A: Yes.
Note however that the unit being charged still obeys the
normal rules for targeting when it fires Overwatch, and so,
if a model cannot see the charging unit, it will not be able to
fire Overwatch.''

Harlies are going to love this.

How does this apply? I don't get it? How do you charge something you can't see? Do you mean behind a wall, but the Harlies can attack because they are in range? So if this is the case, why can't they be overwatched since once in "view" the Tau or who ever can overwatch them. If not what would be the case then? I just don't get it.

I too find it bizarre. Why not let both sides play as normal - or not allow the charge?

 Vector Strike wrote:

Davor wrote:

 Wyrlock wrote:
''Q: Can you declare charges against units that are not
visible to the charging unit?
A: Yes.
Note however that the unit being charged still obeys the
normal rules for targeting when it fires Overwatch, and so,
if a model cannot see the charging unit, it will not be able to
fire Overwatch.''

Harlies are going to love this.

How does this apply? I don't get it? How do you charge something you can't see? Do you mean behind a wall, but the Harlies can attack because they are in range? So if this is the case, why can't they be overwatched since once in "view" the Tau or who ever can overwatch them. If not what would be the case then? I just don't get it.

I too find it bizarre. Why not let both sides play as normal - or not allow the charge?

Well you normally can't shoot something you can't see...

That being said I think it's pretty stupid because when that IG squad sees the harlequins rushing out of the building, guess what the guy with the flamethrower would do - yeah, open up on them.

The rerolls before modifier rule still doesn't make sense.
They've only covered negative modifiers in their example, but not positive modifiers. If they considered those then it falls apart.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
The rerolls before modifier rule still doesn't make sense.
They've only covered negative modifiers in their example, but not positive modifiers. If they considered those then it falls apart.

It basically lowers the power of rerolls. Imagine if this rule had been about when 2++ rerollable saves were all the rage. It would of taken some of the bite out of that nonsense.

I was very negative when I first read about it. Now I am neutral and want to get some games in to see if I hate it or not.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
The rerolls before modifier rule still doesn't make sense.
They've only covered negative modifiers in their example, but not positive modifiers. If they considered those then it falls apart.

Sorry, I haven't followed this particular debate too much. But can you elaborate on how it falls apart when considering positive modifiers?

It seems to work just fine as far as I can see, given that all of the re-roll abilities I've read are worded so you aren't forced to re-roll. So you can choose not to re-roll something that will turn into a success after modifiers.

Arson Fire wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
The rerolls before modifier rule still doesn't make sense.
They've only covered negative modifiers in their example, but not positive modifiers. If they considered those then it falls apart.

Sorry, I haven't followed this particular debate too much. But can you elaborate on how it falls apart when considering positive modifiers?

It seems to work just fine as far as I can see, given that all of the re-roll abilities I've read are worded so you aren't forced to re-roll. So you can choose not to re-roll something that will turn into a success after modifiers.

Oh, well if that's the case then its fine then. It would have been really odd if you had to reroll a 2 when you need a 3 to hit with a +1 modifier.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Trickstick wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
The rerolls before modifier rule still doesn't make sense.
They've only covered negative modifiers in their example, but not positive modifiers. If they considered those then it falls apart.

It basically lowers the power of rerolls. Imagine if this rule had been about when 2++ rerollable saves were all the rage. It would of taken some of the bite out of that nonsense.

I was very negative when I first read about it. Now I am neutral and want to get some games in to see if I hate it or not.

Yeah, I can see that line of thinking. It does make negative modifiers pretty powerful though, if they can ignore rerolls.

yakface wrote:

Davor wrote:
How does this apply? I don't get it? How do you charge something you can't see? Do you mean behind a wall, but the Harlies can attack because they are in range? So if this is the case, why can't they be overwatched since once in "view" the Tau or who ever can overwatch them. If not what would be the case then? I just don't get it.

Because overwatch occurs at the exact place where the charging unit declares its charge.

So if the target of their charge is like, around the corner of a building and they can't see them, then they can't be overwatched, but they can still charge in just fine.

Thank you very much for the example greatly appreciated. I didn't know that. I thought they would see them if they charged. So Overwatch is done when the charge is declared. Thanks for pointing that out.

Being able to declare a charge without line of sight does give a nice advantage to grounded transports. You can disembark a unit behind a land raider, out of line of sight, and declare a charge. Can't do that with a skimmer.

Although now I'm imagining Raiders glued directly to bases or tilted at an angle to reach the ground. Time to pull out the old Wave Serpents!

 Oaka wrote:
Being able to declare a charge without line of sight does give a nice advantage to grounded transports. You can disembark a unit behind a land raider, out of line of sight, and declare a charge. Can't do that with a skimmer.

Although now I'm imagining Raiders glued directly to bases or tilted at an angle to reach the ground. Time to pull out the old Wave Serpents!

I guess that's an advantage, but you can't charge through a land-raider. You have to go around it. So you're going to have a lot longer charge.

 yakface wrote:

Davor wrote:
How does this apply? I don't get it? How do you charge something you can't see? Do you mean behind a wall, but the Harlies can attack because they are in range? So if this is the case, why can't they be overwatched since once in "view" the Tau or who ever can overwatch them. If not what would be the case then? I just don't get it.

Because overwatch occurs at the exact place where the charging unit declares its charge.

So if the target of their charge is like, around the corner of a building and they can't see them, then they can't be overwatched, but they can still charge in just fine.

Which is all fine and good, but if you are aware enough to know of a unit around the corner that unit should be just as aware of your unit. I think that that decision flies in the face of every edition so far. I cant think of any edition in which you could charge a unit that you couldn't see.

Cheers

Andrew

Lendys wrote:

 Oaka wrote:
Being able to declare a charge without line of sight does give a nice advantage to grounded transports. You can disembark a unit behind a land raider, out of line of sight, and declare a charge. Can't do that with a skimmer.

Although now I'm imagining Raiders glued directly to bases or tilted at an angle to reach the ground. Time to pull out the old Wave Serpents!

I guess that's an advantage, but you can't charge through a land-raider. You have to go around it. So you're going to have a lot longer charge.

I can imagine letting assault marines or jump pack characters make the first charge to cancel overwatch before charging with something else. I think the cheaper solution for overwatch most of the time would just be to pay for extra models, but if you happened to have flying troops and transports around, it's a neat little trick.

Or, in the case of many transports...charge in with it first to absorb the overwatch.

Lendys wrote:
Or, in the case of many transports...charge in with it first to absorb the overwatch.

The danger with that is, you could end up blocking your other unit from getting within 1".

Yeah, the LOS ruling for Overwatch but not charge is open to abuse/silliness. Already bad enough that you can charge from outside a weapons range and deny it a shot. Reminds me of Cleese in the Holy Grail.

To those lamenting the ability to charge without los, I feel your pain. Sadly from what I've seen of combat so far in 8th, if you're lucky enough to make it into combat you'll barely have time to make a scratch before whats left of the unit you charged just runs away out of combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:

Loopstah wrote:
They seem to have clarified and cleared up all the main issues with the core rules people spotted.

Now we need index commentary to clear up all the issues in them.

I saw nothing regarding assaulting infantry on ruins or Terrain when you can not get within 1in due to the unit taking up all the space.

Yeah the way terrain was dealt with in the faq was maddening. They could errata ruins with a single word to make them 100% in line with trees/forests but jervis hubris blocks out the possibility that there may be an actual errata required to fix something. And as you mentioned no addressing the return of the "un-assault-able" position. I'd like to see more on 3 dimensionality in general when it comes to combat.

Considering you cant move through solid walls anymore and have to go around them they are effectively adding two or so inches to their charge to not be overwatched....

This should alleviate the concerns of many who claimed positioning is no longer important.

 Leth wrote:
Considering you cant move through solid walls anymore and have to go around them they are effectively adding two or so inches to their charge to not be overwatched....

Infantry can move through solid ruin walls. And anything with fly literally teleport so it may as well be considered to be melting.

This one I'm not sure I get it :

"Q: If a model cannot shoot at the closest visible enemy
unit for some reason (e.g. it is within 1" of one of
your units) but the next closest visible enemy unit is a
Character, can that model then target the character?
A: No."

Does that really mean that for the rule preventing to target characters if they are not the closest unit, units of the same army than the said character engaged in HtH are not ignored ?

If so, my Warboss is gonna like this one.

Yeah, they have to be the closest unit. Makes sense, you wouldn't want your character to fail a charge and suddenly be shootable because the guys he was behind are in melee.

That's exactly what happened to my... Cost me the game.

I like the new charging rules. It allows you to set ambushes for units without having to worry about overwatch. I think it rewards positioning well.