Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I followed discussions and battle reports about Necrons ever since the leaks started. I haven't played since 4th edition so I got really excited when I saw all the amazing new Necron models. Anyway from what I've seen most losses seem to happen to Necrons when large units get wiped out one at a time. Point costs seem to be balanced around living metal and reanimation protocols. As soon as you start reviving lots of models or keep that vehicle or character in combat just a turn or two longer Necrons do very well. If the enemy plays in a way where you can't make use of this then you will probably lose.

So you should try finding a way to make RP more reliable. One suggestion was using buildings to hide part of your unit so that the enemy can never wipe out the full squad just by shooting. Some even suggested using a Monolith for that, does that still block LoS? Attrition seems to be the name of the game and there is a breaking point where the enemy simply can*t remove enough models due to their own losses.

I guess it's a similar problem that the GSC faces. All of their units are overpriced due to the cult ambush ability. And if you pull off a good ambush then you will be far ahead in the game. If you don't... well, there is no shame in giving up and playing another match, right?

Edit: I guess if there is one problem that Necrons definitely face is that many of the 8th edition matches I've seen were already somewhat decided in the first 2 rounds and Necrons deal better with longer matches than with alpha strikes.

My Necrons seem to be doing fine.
Warriors, Immortals, Tomb Blades, and Annihilation Barges seem to be doing the trick for me.
Maybe not top tier, but certainly playable, and I've not finished playtesting what works this edition.

First game of 8th I played was against Necrons with two 20 warrior squads. I put 18 assault cannon shots, 9 plasma cannon shots, 14 bolter shots, and 1 krak missile into a single unit, killed 15 of them and let battle shock finish the rest. Almost my entire army fired at one unit for a turn, and only just barely wiped it.

For the rest of the game, my friend bitched and moaned about how RP was useless, even after he kept gaining models back for the rest of his army.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
First game of 8th I played was against Necrons with two 20 warrior squads. I put 18 assault cannon shots, 9 plasma cannon shots, 14 bolter shots, and 1 krak missile into a single unit, killed 15 of them and let battle shock finish the rest. Almost my entire army fired at one unit for a turn, and only just barely wiped it.

For the rest of the game, my friend bitched and moaned about how RP was useless, even after he kept gaining models back for the rest of his army.

You can use CP to auto-pass a morale check, which is exactly what a Necron player should do when 15/20 Warriors go down in a single turn.

It's going to take people awhile to settle into the rules of 8th.

Yeah.. the OP just read "I am not use to the new way of playing this edition and bad at the game... My army rules must suck"

Please give better details and reasoning on why you think it is bad

Having a 5++ on those units would have helped too. Takes some of the sting out out of massed plasma fire.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the RP rules, and armies designed around maximizing the potential of those rules should be quite good. WIth a Cryptek and a Ghost Ark 11 of those 15 dead Necrons stand back up. Whee!

One of the most effective ways I've played necrons was to get a huge unit of flayed ones and bring them in turn 1 in front of the opposing army. They will either make the charge and do damage, or they will allow everyone else a turn or two of moving forward into better position.

Necrons are a very strong army, however, it is ironic that they now seem to struggle against enemy vehicles. I've not found an idea solution to vehicles yet.

 SideshowLucifer wrote:
One of the most effective ways I've played necrons was to get a huge unit of flayed ones and bring them in turn 1 in front of the opposing army. They will either make the charge and do damage, or they will allow everyone else a turn or two of moving forward into better position.

Necrons are a very strong army, however, it is ironic that they now seem to struggle against enemy vehicles. I've not found an idea solution to vehicles yet.

Right now the best solution would probably be the DDA, heavy destroyers and warscythes.
Other than those pricey options, not many. Maybe the codex will have something juicy.

Bobug wrote:
This has to be a joke thread right? Necrons are brilliant. RP is in aa good place, 5+ every turn for every model that dies (4+ with a ctyptek which you should definitely have). Quantum shielding is brilliant. I honestly dont undersrand how you could say necrons arent good unless you were spammimg wraiths before, in whih case i have no pity for you

Gotta agree
- Nearly every gun that had Gauss has a bare minimum ap-1.
- Necrons troops are priced in the higher end of troops but they're still truly solid and resiliant for what you pay.
- With the loss of vehicle go boom the Arks are really neat Transports, plant them in cover and they need to have real effort put into getting them out.

From what I've heard Flayed Ones still suck and so do Monoliths.

They're nowhere near unplayable. Their major issue is vehicle heavy armies, so if that's what you were facing then there's the issue. It's pretty ridiculous how much Necrons struggle against vehicles actually - their guns have gone from mediocre-to-bad against infantry to completely murdering them, and have gone from being a serious threat to vehicles to becoming a total joke. Either way, Necrons are a bit awkward with their index rules - against infantry heavy armies, they're pretty likely to win, and against vehicle heavy armies they're pretty likely to lose; 2 of my games were decided in list building because of that.

That said, we don't even have all the index rules for Forge World, let alone know how the codex will play out when it arrives, so it's a bit early to be selling anything.

It's too soon to really see how Necrons stand up to other armies and I myself have yet to play any games. I think having a better version of FNP was probably preferable to RP now, but that'll depend on the tactical aspect of the game; if you wanna beat Necrons you have to focus them down a unit at a time and if you wanna win as Necrons you'll have to account for that.

I want a monolith. Not because I think it's gonna be op, but because the major flaws with it (might mishap on deepstrike, can't fire particle whip and other weapons at full BS) have been addressed and therefore it might not be total garbage.

I think it's lame how gauss doesn't mean anything now. How durable vehicles are with the new rules is not entirely clear to me though.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:


From what I've heard Flayed Ones still suck and so do Monoliths.

Man, Flayed Ones haven't sucked since the last codex appeared. They make any infantry they touch vanish.

Alcibiades wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:


From what I've heard Flayed Ones still suck and so do Monoliths.

Man, Flayed Ones haven't sucked since the last codex appeared. They make any infantry they touch vanish.

And they get mulched instead on any counter charge since you're paying almost double the cost of a Necron Warrior for the SAME durability

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:


From what I've heard Flayed Ones still suck and so do Monoliths.

Man, Flayed Ones haven't sucked since the last codex appeared. They make any infantry they touch vanish.

And they get mulched instead on any counter charge since you're paying almost double the cost of a Necron Warrior for the SAME durability

Yeah, that's how glass canons work. High damage output, low durability. Play around it.

"Necrons" and "low durability" used in the same sentence.

Alcibiades wrote:
"Necrons" and "low durability" used in the same sentence.

If you kill the unit in one turn, yes they are less durable than equivalent points of Marines


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
"Necrons" and "low durability" used in the same sentence.

If you kill the unit in one turn (and you will), yes they are less durable than equivalent points of Marines

Four games, huh?

Yeah, that's probably enough to make huge, sweeping generalisations about the army in an entirely new rules environment.

*sarcasm overload*

Not entirely sure why they suck against vehicles either?

That -1 AP is pretty decent, and you're still on a 6+ to wound at the very worst.

Reanimation Protocols seem tricky to get past, barring trying to annihilate entire units at a time. No mean feat these days either.

As for being slow? Didn't realise the Ghost Ark and Nightscythe had been dropped from the army.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Not entirely sure why they suck against vehicles either?

That -1 AP is pretty decent, and you're still on a 6+ to wound at the very worst.

Reanimation Protocols seem tricky to get past, barring trying to annihilate entire units at a time. No mean feat these days either.

As for being slow? Didn't realise the Ghost Ark and Nightscythe had been dropped from the army.

They suck hard man if you do not consider that:

1) 5" Movement is tragic for multi-level ruins and the fast units Necron have are overpriced as feth or lose durability (oh you CCB!).
2) You're trading customization options and wargear like Grenades/Pistols/CQC Weapons/VETERAN SERGEANTS for a Bolter with -1 AP, MEH.
3) Ghost Ark is overpriced since it only carries Necron Warriors, Rhino/Razorback do not have such a hindrance.
4) Reanimation Protocols are shadows of their former selves, much worse than their previous iteration in every possible way.
5) Midrange shooty army is a terrible concept in 8TH since Quick CQC armies or long range artillery are prevalent and more efficient.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Not entirely sure why they suck against vehicles either?

That -1 AP is pretty decent, and you're still on a 6+ to wound at the very worst.

That doesn't make them good. Point for point, you're better off shooting at vehicles with conscript lasguns than you are with Necron Warriors - that's how bad Necron troops have become against tanks. The cheapest lascannon equivalent (and also the cheapest AT Necrons have access to) costs 75 points. They're easily the weakest faction against tanks, bar none.

Eyjio wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Not entirely sure why they suck against vehicles either?

That -1 AP is pretty decent, and you're still on a 6+ to wound at the very worst.

That doesn't make them good. Point for point, you're better off shooting at vehicles with conscript lasguns than you are with Necron Warriors - that's how bad Necron troops have become against tanks. The cheapest lascannon equivalent (and also the cheapest AT Necrons have access to) costs 75 points. They're easily the weakest faction against tanks, bar none.

You're measuring points for guns in a vacuum, without considering the model it's affixed to at all. But whatever validates your whine, I guess.

 Purifier wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Not entirely sure why they suck against vehicles either?

That -1 AP is pretty decent, and you're still on a 6+ to wound at the very worst.

That doesn't make them good. Point for point, you're better off shooting at vehicles with conscript lasguns than you are with Necron Warriors - that's how bad Necron troops have become against tanks. The cheapest lascannon equivalent (and also the cheapest AT Necrons have access to) costs 75 points. They're easily the weakest faction against tanks, bar none.

You're measuring points for guns in a vacuum, without considering the model it's affixed to at all. But whatever validates your whine, I guess.

What on Earth warranted that? Someone woke up on the wrong side of bed. All I said was that Necrons have gone from being one of the better anti-armour armies to being the worst one in the game. If you think that stating a fact is whining then you should take a step back.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Not entirely sure why they suck against vehicles either?

That -1 AP is pretty decent, and you're still on a 6+ to wound at the very worst.

Reanimation Protocols seem tricky to get past, barring trying to annihilate entire units at a time. No mean feat these days either.

As for being slow? Didn't realise the Ghost Ark and Nightscythe had been dropped from the army.

They suck hard man if you do not consider that:

1) 5" Movement is tragic for multi-level ruins and the fast units Necron have are overpriced as feth or lose durability (oh you CCB!).
2) You're trading customization options and wargear like Grenades/Pistols/CQC Weapons/VETERAN SERGEANTS for a Bolter with -1 AP, MEH.
3) Ghost Ark is overpriced since it only carries Necron Warriors, Rhino/Razorback do not have such a hindrance.
4) Reanimation Protocols are shadows of their former selves, much worse than their previous iteration in every possible way.
5) Midrange shooty army is a terrible concept in 8TH since Quick CQC armies or long range artillery are prevalent and more efficient.

Why do necrons need veteran sargeants? Do Rhinos/Razorbacks bring marines back to life? They are also far less durable than Ghost Arks. Reanimation Protocols are different, I would say better if your squads don't fully die. Which with CP, LD10 and lots of reasonably durable models should be the case. I think there are lists that will work, but it is a different way from what used to work.

Point for point their damage output might be worse, but you can't ignore the durability of the platform the weapon is on. Sure, imperial might get more lascannons, but they're generally not as durable.

I don't see how anyone can argue Necrons are good against vehicles.

What options do they have which are good? Most armies can take two or three lascannons on some unit for the price of a heavy gauss cannon heavy destroyer. Sure you reroll 1s to hit and sure you have an okay movement and fly - but there is no way this beats having two or three guns.

Heat Ray Stalkers or Doomsday Arks are also incredibly expensive options.

 Wolfblade wrote:
Point for point their damage output might be worse, but you can't ignore the durability of the platform the weapon is on. Sure, imperial might get more lascannons, but they're generally not as durable.

I mean, you're not wrong (although twin lascannon Razorbacks are both more durable and cheaper per shot) but that doesn't help the damage output against tanks any. I don't really understand why this is even a contentious point - Necron infantry is terrible against tanks as you'd expect from models firing glorified bolters, and their damage output across the whole army versus T6+ models is poor; in the last edition there was no such weakness against tanks and no such strength against infantry. If they weren't survivable, they'd be awful with their current rules; as it is, they're relatively balanced unless the opponent goes full mech/full monster (they win) or full infantry (Necrons win). The cheapest marine lascannon is about half the cost; the cheapest guard one is about a third - consequently, they're better at killing vehicles, because they can take more redundant guns.

Fortunately Necrons are supposed to get some very strong anti-armour options in the FW Xenos Index, so that should clear up a lot of their issues. Will be interesting to see if they still have issues once the full army is available.

Breng77 wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Not entirely sure why they suck against vehicles either?

That -1 AP is pretty decent, and you're still on a 6+ to wound at the very worst.

Reanimation Protocols seem tricky to get past, barring trying to annihilate entire units at a time. No mean feat these days either.

As for being slow? Didn't realise the Ghost Ark and Nightscythe had been dropped from the army.

They suck hard man if you do not consider that:

1) 5" Movement is tragic for multi-level ruins and the fast units Necron have are overpriced as feth or lose durability (oh you CCB!).
2) You're trading customization options and wargear like Grenades/Pistols/CQC Weapons/VETERAN SERGEANTS for a Bolter with -1 AP, MEH.
3) Ghost Ark is overpriced since it only carries Necron Warriors, Rhino/Razorback do not have such a hindrance.
4) Reanimation Protocols are shadows of their former selves, much worse than their previous iteration in every possible way.
5) Midrange shooty army is a terrible concept in 8TH since Quick CQC armies or long range artillery are prevalent and more efficient.

Why do necrons need veteran sargeants? Do Rhinos/Razorbacks bring marines back to life? They are also far less durable than Ghost Arks. Reanimation Protocols are different, I would say better if your squads don't fully die. Which with CP, LD10 and lots of reasonably durable models should be the case. I think there are lists that will work, but it is a different way from what used to work.

Everyone gained a free 10 pt upgrade on their basic infantry (alongside a reduction in points cost), and who cares if Ghost Arks adds +1 to RPs that you WILL NEVER EVER MAKE in the first place against a competent opponent. And no, RPs are stricly worse than a 5+ undeniable FNP

Eyjio wrote:

What on Earth warranted that? Someone woke up on the wrong side of bed. All I said was that Necrons have gone from being one of the better anti-armour armies to being the worst one in the game. If you think that stating a fact is whining then you should take a step back.

That isn't a fact, that's your opinion - you're just stating it as if it is a fact.

If you seriously believe you can write off an entire faction when the rules havn't even been commercially available for more than two days, then perhaps you are the one who needs to 'take a step back' and stop pretending you know better than anyone else.

Tyel wrote:
I don't see how anyone can argue Necrons are good against vehicles.

What options do they have which are good? Most armies can take two or three lascannons on some unit for the price of a heavy gauss cannon heavy destroyer. Sure you reroll 1s to hit and sure you have an okay movement and fly - but there is no way this beats having two or three guns.

Heat Ray Stalkers or Doomsday Arks are also incredibly expensive options.

I'm interested to see what most armies can take for 2-3 lascannons. If we look at space marines. Devestators get 4 lascannons for 165 points, vs 2 heavy destoryers for 150. The heavy gauss cannon has better AP but worse range. But with the movement advantage of destroyers the range is fairly a non factor.

The devestators are about 10 points per wound cheaper against most vehicles. They are also less durable (5 T4 wounds, Vs 6 T5 wounds) against small arms fire, and far less mobile.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Breng77 wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Not entirely sure why they suck against vehicles either?

That -1 AP is pretty decent, and you're still on a 6+ to wound at the very worst.

Reanimation Protocols seem tricky to get past, barring trying to annihilate entire units at a time. No mean feat these days either.

As for being slow? Didn't realise the Ghost Ark and Nightscythe had been dropped from the army.

They suck hard man if you do not consider that:

1) 5" Movement is tragic for multi-level ruins and the fast units Necron have are overpriced as feth or lose durability (oh you CCB!).
2) You're trading customization options and wargear like Grenades/Pistols/CQC Weapons/VETERAN SERGEANTS for a Bolter with -1 AP, MEH.
3) Ghost Ark is overpriced since it only carries Necron Warriors, Rhino/Razorback do not have such a hindrance.
4) Reanimation Protocols are shadows of their former selves, much worse than their previous iteration in every possible way.
5) Midrange shooty army is a terrible concept in 8TH since Quick CQC armies or long range artillery are prevalent and more efficient.

Why do necrons need veteran sargeants? Do Rhinos/Razorbacks bring marines back to life? They are also far less durable than Ghost Arks. Reanimation Protocols are different, I would say better if your squads don't fully die. Which with CP, LD10 and lots of reasonably durable models should be the case. I think there are lists that will work, but it is a different way from what used to work.

Everyone gained a free 10 pt upgrade on their basic infantry (alongside a reduction in points cost), and who cares if Ghost Arks adds +1 to RPs that you WILL NEVER EVER MAKE in the first place against a competent opponent. And no, RPs are stricly worse than a 5+ undeniable FNP

That upgrade for most armies is +1 LD and +1 attack. So only one of those things remotely helps necrons.

This belief that you will never make RP rolls is laughable. Sure opponents will aim to wipe squads out, that doesn't mean it automatically happens. And if it doesn't you make multiple rolls vs a single 5+ FNP roll. It is currently a rule that dictates that opponents must wipe out squads, that is a fairly powerful rule, especially given large squad size. In 7th if I kill you down to 1 or 2 models I can largely ignore warriors unless they are on an objective. Now I cannot afford to do so.