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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

1. Nobody was running just a single Obliterator or single 3 Man Terminator squad in their army. Plus with the amount of models in the box your army with Obliterators and Terminators is not illegal. You just aren't happy you can't run them the specific way YOU want to run them.

I have just two obliterators and 4 terminators (as 4 plus lord could fit in to a land raider). I don't mind it too much though as I don't care about optimization too much, but I think there are plenty of people that have similar collections.

First impression is that I like AoS more, but the new 40k is fun enough to dig out some old models and have a game every now and then. Don't care too much about the army composition and for the points I try to use the power costs when possible, as I don't want to spend too much time calculating the army lists to concentrate my spare time on the actual gaming (as the off table time goes to the painting).

Nids are gross.

 AaronWilson wrote:
Nids are gross.

Nids are awesome - endless swarms of flesh-craving bugs that can chow down on any other life-form and the hive mind can read from each bug's diet then use the information to create new types of bugs.
What is not to like?

 MagicJuggler wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
My army is illegal. I also find it weird that they made Storm Bolters and Combi-Bolters the same weapon, and gave variable fire settings on plasma for both Loyalists and Chaos.

...I feel like my army is now naughty Loyalists and the Gav Thotpe codex felt more like a Chaos Space Marine army. :(

Your army isn't illegal. It just doesn't do your silly gimmick is all.

Can't run 3-man units of Terminators, or solo Obliterators (which are now a "randumb devcent" rather than a jack-of-trades troubleshooter), or Bikes with Pistol&Chainsword (I can do Chainsword or pistol, but swapping for a special is superior now), melee cultists got a hideous price hike and Dirge Casters are gone.

Yep, it's a "silly gimmick" alright. Why wasn't I playing a Loyalist army again?

terminators are useful for something other then "one shot metlaside" in 8th edition so having to take another 2 in a unit isn't a huuge loss. and being able to run solo oblits I always thought was silly anyway/

that saiod you can't expect an edition change to happen and not to have to make some tweeks to your list,

BrianDavion wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
My army is illegal. I also find it weird that they made Storm Bolters and Combi-Bolters the same weapon, and gave variable fire settings on plasma for both Loyalists and Chaos.

...I feel like my army is now naughty Loyalists and the Gav Thotpe codex felt more like a Chaos Space Marine army. :(

Your army isn't illegal. It just doesn't do your silly gimmick is all.

Can't run 3-man units of Terminators, or solo Obliterators (which are now a "randumb devcent" rather than a jack-of-trades troubleshooter), or Bikes with Pistol&Chainsword (I can do Chainsword or pistol, but swapping for a special is superior now), melee cultists got a hideous price hike and Dirge Casters are gone.

Yep, it's a "silly gimmick" alright. Why wasn't I playing a Loyalist army again?

terminators are useful for something other then "one shot metlaside" in 8th edition so having to take another 2 in a unit isn't a huuge loss. and being able to run solo oblits I always thought was silly anyway/

that saiod you can't expect an edition change to happen and not to have to make some tweeks to your list,

What exactly are you going to use Terminators for in this edition? That Combi-Melta and Power Axe model that was previously 36 points is now...54 points (combi-plasma is cheaper by a few points but is relatively gimpy without the setting that has a 1 in 6 chance of autokilling you). What could be a 112 pt investment is now at minimum a 185 point investment and that's before you swap out the regular combi-bolters, for what ultimately becomes a 270 point investment in 5 models. What exactly are 8e Chaos Terminators useful for again?

I ran combi-plasma because 12" rapidfire is more reliable than 6" melta, and the extra shots would threaten small infantry or bike squads. Since I had been running Word Bearers and a Chaos Warband, they were also Obsec, and could roll 2 dice pick highest for Running, meaning I was able to use them for objective tag in a pinch.

Solo Oblits were an option, and one I've run in the past. "Multiple solo Obliterators & Mutilators", akin to Mutilatorshame, or solo Oblits in support of a Rhino push. I have found a valid use for most every gun profile, even if 6 of the choices could be consolidated as "assault/heavy" pairs (TL Flamer/Heavy Flamer, TL Melta/Multimelta, TL Plasma/Plasma Cannon). Even if it was something like: "Choose an effect to apply to your shots", there would have been purpose to them.

To sum up:

BrianDavion wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:

I'm upset that this thing I liked to do before doesn't work anymore.

I thought that thing you liked was dumb.

Well, thanks BrianDavion, I'm sure you really made a guy feel good. Why is it that people like you always want to invalidate other people's experience's with a new edition?

I've been on the losing end of edition changes before, and it sucks. I've watched as several hundred dollars worth of models no longer had a place in the game. It sucks. Telling him that what he enjoyed doing with his models wasn't what you would have done with them makes it suck more.

Its very illogical, and very stupid. Pretty much nothing makes sense anymore. Sure its faster, but there is no need to sacrify almost everything that made sense, or was realistic in 7th ed.

p5freak wrote:
Its very illogical, and very stupid. Pretty much nothing makes sense anymore. Sure its faster, but there is no need to sacrify almost everything that made sense, or was realistic in 7th ed.

Care to elaborate?

 MagicJuggler wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
My army is illegal. I also find it weird that they made Storm Bolters and Combi-Bolters the same weapon, and gave variable fire settings on plasma for both Loyalists and Chaos.

...I feel like my army is now naughty Loyalists and the Gav Thotpe codex felt more like a Chaos Space Marine army. :(

Your army isn't illegal. It just doesn't do your silly gimmick is all.

Can't run 3-man units of Terminators, or solo Obliterators (which are now a "randumb devcent" rather than a jack-of-trades troubleshooter), or Bikes with Pistol&Chainsword (I can do Chainsword or pistol, but swapping for a special is superior now), melee cultists got a hideous price hike and Dirge Casters are gone.

Yep, it's a "silly gimmick" alright. Why wasn't I playing a Loyalist army again?

terminators are useful for something other then "one shot metlaside" in 8th edition so having to take another 2 in a unit isn't a huuge loss. and being able to run solo oblits I always thought was silly anyway/

that saiod you can't expect an edition change to happen and not to have to make some tweeks to your list,

What exactly are you going to use Terminators for in this edition? That Combi-Melta and Power Axe model that was previously 36 points is now...54 points (combi-plasma is cheaper by a few points but is relatively gimpy without the setting that has a 1 in 6 chance of autokilling you). What could be a 112 pt investment is now at minimum a 185 point investment and that's before you swap out the regular combi-bolters, for what ultimately becomes a 270 point investment in 5 models. What exactly are 8e Chaos Terminators useful for again?

I ran combi-plasma because 12" rapidfire is more reliable than 6" melta, and the extra shots would threaten small infantry or bike squads. Since I had been running Word Bearers and a Chaos Warband, they were also Obsec, and could roll 2 dice pick highest for Running, meaning I was able to use them for objective tag in a pinch.

Solo Oblits were an option, and one I've run in the past. "Multiple solo Obliterators & Mutilators", akin to Mutilatorshame, or solo Oblits in support of a Rhino push. I have found a valid use for most every gun profile, even if 6 of the choices could be consolidated as "assault/heavy" pairs (TL Flamer/Heavy Flamer, TL Melta/Multimelta, TL Plasma/Plasma Cannon). Even if it was something like: "Choose an effect to apply to your shots", there would have been purpose to them.

You're going to use them as an assault unit with good fire support, as 4 Combi Weapons and the Autocannon is a good thing now? What kind of silly question, bordering on stupid, was THAT? If you want a suicide unit look elsewhere.

Solo Obliterators and Mutilators wasn't good ever, contrary to JancoranHammer. The new ones only need Assault 3 on their guns, which isn't too hard of an update.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
My army is illegal. I also find it weird that they made Storm Bolters and Combi-Bolters the same weapon, and gave variable fire settings on plasma for both Loyalists and Chaos.

...I feel like my army is now naughty Loyalists and the Gav Thotpe codex felt more like a Chaos Space Marine army. :(

Your army isn't illegal. It just doesn't do your silly gimmick is all.

Can't run 3-man units of Terminators, or solo Obliterators (which are now a "randumb devcent" rather than a jack-of-trades troubleshooter), or Bikes with Pistol&Chainsword (I can do Chainsword or pistol, but swapping for a special is superior now), melee cultists got a hideous price hike and Dirge Casters are gone.

Yep, it's a "silly gimmick" alright. Why wasn't I playing a Loyalist army again?

terminators are useful for something other then "one shot metlaside" in 8th edition so having to take another 2 in a unit isn't a huuge loss. and being able to run solo oblits I always thought was silly anyway/

that saiod you can't expect an edition change to happen and not to have to make some tweeks to your list,

What exactly are you going to use Terminators for in this edition? That Combi-Melta and Power Axe model that was previously 36 points is now...54 points (combi-plasma is cheaper by a few points but is relatively gimpy without the setting that has a 1 in 6 chance of autokilling you). What could be a 112 pt investment is now at minimum a 185 point investment and that's before you swap out the regular combi-bolters, for what ultimately becomes a 270 point investment in 5 models. What exactly are 8e Chaos Terminators useful for again?

I ran combi-plasma because 12" rapidfire is more reliable than 6" melta, and the extra shots would threaten small infantry or bike squads. Since I had been running Word Bearers and a Chaos Warband, they were also Obsec, and could roll 2 dice pick highest for Running, meaning I was able to use them for objective tag in a pinch.

Solo Oblits were an option, and one I've run in the past. "Multiple solo Obliterators & Mutilators", akin to Mutilatorshame, or solo Oblits in support of a Rhino push. I have found a valid use for most every gun profile, even if 6 of the choices could be consolidated as "assault/heavy" pairs (TL Flamer/Heavy Flamer, TL Melta/Multimelta, TL Plasma/Plasma Cannon). Even if it was something like: "Choose an effect to apply to your shots", there would have been purpose to them.

You're going to use them as an assault unit with good fire support, as 4 Combi Weapons and the Autocannon is a good thing now? What kind of silly question, bordering on stupid, was THAT? If you want a suicide unit look elsewhere.

Solo Obliterators and Mutilators wasn't good ever, contrary to JancoranHammer. The new ones only need Assault 3 on their guns, which isn't too hard of an update.

Getting to fire your meltaguns more than once is nice. Is it worth tripling the cost of combi-meltas when DS deployment rules are so restrictive, the defender allocates all casualties, and Terminators don't get any additional attacks in melee, and your opponent can withdraw without penalty, or smite into melee? How dare I have my doubts.

Also, Jancoranhammer? Mr. "Pathfinder Special Weapon Teams" Jancoran? If you're going to disagree with me, disagree with me and not another polemic that gives questionable advice without disclaimers.

 mrhappyface wrote:

p5freak wrote:
Its very illogical, and very stupid. Pretty much nothing makes sense anymore. Sure its faster, but there is no need to sacrify almost everything that made sense, or was realistic in 7th ed.

Care to elaborate?

Sure.

30 Orcs can daisy chain 30 inches across the battlefield, with Ghahzkull 20 inches behind CC, in cover, behind a building, still giving +1 attacks to charge, because he is within 6 inches of the unit.

Any ground infantry can kill armored units with basic melee weapons.

Flamers auto hit flying units.

Any ground infantry can block a land raider, baneblade, etc. from falling back by surrounding it, it cant move through enemy units.

Just one very basic infantry unit, can prevent a land raider, baneblade, etc. from firing its weaponry, if he moves 1 inch next to it. And that one unit can lock up the vehicle in CC, too.

Allocating wounds to units not in CC, or not in LOS. With my daisy chain example above the orc player could choose to remove models 30 inches away from CC.

I know its a game, and its not supposed to be a 100% real simulation, but it should make some sense.

I think I found your problem.

You have a 30" building on your table.

p5freak wrote:

30 Orcs can daisy chain 30 inches across the battlefield, with Ghahzkull 20 inches behind CC, in cover, behind a building, still giving +1 attacks to charge, because he is within 6 inches of the unit.

Yes you could do that but 1. Only Orks within 1" of an enemy or within 3" of a model which is within 1" get to strike so over half over the daisy chain can't strike 2. As soon as they charge the daisy chain will have to move forward taking them out of the 6" aura around Ghahzkull and 3. why exactly are you hiding Ghahzkull back when the cover save does nothing against weapons with no AP and weapons with AP will likely just take him up to his invul save and (this is most important) Ghahzkull wants to be in cc.

Any ground infantry can kill armored units with basic melee weapons.

They can but it is very unlikely in game and fluff wise there are stories of basic infantry climbing into tanks and breaking bits off of them till they failed.

Flamers auto hit flying units.

You have two options 1. Accept that flyers are to damn fast and fly too high to even play on a 40k scale so you ban all flyers or 2. We take GW's word that they are slow moving low altitude skimmers in which case flamers would be able to hit them.

Any ground infantry can block a land raider, baneblade, etc. from falling back by surrounding it, it cant move through enemy units.

This was the same as all editions, why is it only silly now?

Just one very basic infantry unit, can prevent a land raider, baneblade, etc. from firing its weaponry, if he moves 1 inch next to it. And that one unit can lock up the vehicle in CC, too.

Baneblades can still fire their weapons and once again how has the Landraiders position changed since previous editions?

Allocating wounds to units not in CC, or not in LOS. With my daisy chain example above the orc player could choose to remove models 30 inches away from CC.

This is perhaps a good point, although I've met a lot of people who like this rule.

I know its a game, and its not supposed to be a 100% real simulation, but it should make some sense.

It is as real as it can be without sacrificing what makes the game fun and balanced (semi balanced).

 mrhappyface wrote:

Any ground infantry can block a land raider, baneblade, etc. from falling back by surrounding it, it cant move through enemy units.

This was the same as all editions, why is it only silly now?

Well, no. it could tank shock its way out before.

Just one very basic infantry unit, can prevent a land raider, baneblade, etc. from firing its weaponry, if he moves 1 inch next to it. And that one unit can lock up the vehicle in CC, too.

Baneblades can still fire their weapons and once again how has the Landraiders position changed since previous editions?

How do they do that. If you have an enemy model within 1" of you, you don't get to fire. If you're surrounded, you can't fall back, because you can't move through their models, so you're stuck in combat, and not shooting.

 Redbeard wrote:

Well, no. it could tank shock its way out before.

Tank shock can't be attempted while in combat.

How do they do that. If you have an enemy model within 1" of you, you don't get to fire. If you're surrounded, you can't fall back, because you can't move through their models, so you're stuck in combat, and not shooting.

The Baneblades datasheet gives it the rule "Steel Behemoth which allows it to fire it's weapons while in combat.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:

Well, no. it could tank shock its way out before.

Tank shock can't be attempted while in combat.

In prior editions, vehicles weren't in combat. That's kind of the point there.

How do they do that. If you have an enemy model within 1" of you, you don't get to fire. If you're surrounded, you can't fall back, because you can't move through their models, so you're stuck in combat, and not shooting.

The Baneblades datasheet gives it the rule "Steel Behemoth which allows it to fire it's weapons while in combat.

Ah, I didn't catch that - I saw it could fire if falling back. Okay, so it's good, but a landraider can't.

 Redbeard wrote:

In prior editions, vehicles weren't in combat. That's kind of the point there.

Sorry my awful wording: Tank shock can't be attempted against units in combat, the units within in base contact with the tank are in combat until it moves away. At least that's how it worked in 7e.

Ah, I didn't catch that - I saw it could fire if falling back. Okay, so it's good, but a landraider can't.

Unfortunetly no, the Landraider can still be stuck. But the question has to be asked: what unit has a large enough model count to surround a Landraider, the manouverability to get into position before the Landraider moves away and can survive the hellstorm of Heavybolter/Lascannon/Flamer that the Raider can throw at it?

 mrhappyface wrote:

They can but it is very unlikely in game and fluff wise there are stories of basic infantry climbing into tanks and breaking bits off of them till they failed.

Not unlikely. A dreadnought can easily be taken out by 20 orc boyz in two rounds. Same applies to any T7 vehicle.

 mrhappyface wrote:

This was the same as all editions, why is it only silly now?

Ok, then its silly because they didnt change it.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Baneblades can still fire their weapons and once again how has the Landraiders position changed since previous editions?

My fault with the Baneblade. But how is a guardsman preventing a land raider from firing all its weapons ? Is he just pulling the battery out, which powers the weapons ? So pathetic. Again stupid that GW didnt change that.

 mrhappyface wrote:

It is as real as it can be without sacrificing what makes the game fun and balanced (semi balanced).

No, its not. Allocating wounds to models in CC, or within LOS, wouldnt be a problem, and it would be more realistic.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Unfortunetly no, the Landraider can still be stuck. But the question has to be asked: what unit has a large enough model count to surround a Landraider, the manouverability to get into position before the Landraider moves away and can survive the hellstorm of Heavybolter/Lascannon/Flamer that the Raider can throw at it?

Why does it have to be one unit? If I have, say, a rhino, charge first, blocking off one side, while absorbing the overwatch, and then a unit of cultists run in to surround it...

If your landraider is getting surrounded by cultist its either extremely out of position or its already GG.

 Redbeard wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

Unfortunetly no, the Landraider can still be stuck. But the question has to be asked: what unit has a large enough model count to surround a Landraider, the manouverability to get into position before the Landraider moves away and can survive the hellstorm of Heavybolter/Lascannon/Flamer that the Raider can throw at it?

Why does it have to be one unit? If I have, say, a rhino, charge first, blocking off one side, while absorbing the overwatch, and then a unit of cultists run in to surround it...

I doubt that this will become THE way to deal with Landraiders since it requires a lot of things to go right for the attacker and a lot of things to go wrong for the Raider user, i.e. Why were the Rhino and the cultists allowed to get so far up the table? If they were why was the Raider in such a position that it could be charged by both? Why are there no friendly units that could counter charge the cultists + rhino next turn and liberate the raider? I don't really see it as a massive problem as i don't see it happening that often if ever.

Good luck surrounding the crusader with cultists lol.

p5freak wrote:

Not unlikely. A dreadnought can easily be taken out by 20 orc boyz in two rounds. Same applies to any T7 vehicle.

20 man Ork Boy unit: Power level 10.
Dreadnought: Power level 8.
I don't see the problem here.

EDIT: Also you didn't do the math at all, an Ork boy unit would take 3 rounds to destroy a Dreadnought IF no Ork boys die from the Dread's return attacks.

Ok, then its silly because they didnt change it.

Then 8e isn't silly, 40k is silly. Don't judge the edition on something that has always been there.

My fault with the Baneblade. But how is a guardsman preventing a land raider from firing all its weapons ? Is he just pulling the battery out, which powers the weapons ? So pathetic. Again stupid that GW didnt change that.

I refer to my previous answer.

No, its not. Allocating wounds to models in CC, or within LOS, wouldnt be a problem, and it would be more realistic.

This edition is tending to give cc dedicated units a break since they have been crapped on for a while now, so they say (much like previous editions) you can't fire into combat and now units can pick whatever model they want to die which prevents BS like Tau firing lines from killing just enough models in overwatch to prevent charges. So yes, it does sacrifice a bit of realism for the sake of balance.

 MagicJuggler wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
My army is illegal. I also find it weird that they made Storm Bolters and Combi-Bolters the same weapon, and gave variable fire settings on plasma for both Loyalists and Chaos.

...I feel like my army is now naughty Loyalists and the Gav Thotpe codex felt more like a Chaos Space Marine army. :(

Your army isn't illegal. It just doesn't do your silly gimmick is all.

Can't run 3-man units of Terminators, or solo Obliterators (which are now a "randumb devcent" rather than a jack-of-trades troubleshooter), or Bikes with Pistol&Chainsword (I can do Chainsword or pistol, but swapping for a special is superior now), melee cultists got a hideous price hike and Dirge Casters are gone.

Yep, it's a "silly gimmick" alright. Why wasn't I playing a Loyalist army again?

terminators are useful for something other then "one shot metlaside" in 8th edition so having to take another 2 in a unit isn't a huuge loss. and being able to run solo oblits I always thought was silly anyway/

that saiod you can't expect an edition change to happen and not to have to make some tweeks to your list,

What exactly are you going to use Terminators for in this edition? That Combi-Melta and Power Axe model that was previously 36 points is now...54 points (combi-plasma is cheaper by a few points but is relatively gimpy without the setting that has a 1 in 6 chance of autokilling you). What could be a 112 pt investment is now at minimum a 185 point investment and that's before you swap out the regular combi-bolters, for what ultimately becomes a 270 point investment in 5 models. What exactly are 8e Chaos Terminators useful for again?

I ran combi-plasma because 12" rapidfire is more reliable than 6" melta, and the extra shots would threaten small infantry or bike squads. Since I had been running Word Bearers and a Chaos Warband, they were also Obsec, and could roll 2 dice pick highest for Running, meaning I was able to use them for objective tag in a pinch.

Solo Oblits were an option, and one I've run in the past. "Multiple solo Obliterators & Mutilators", akin to Mutilatorshame, or solo Oblits in support of a Rhino push. I have found a valid use for most every gun profile, even if 6 of the choices could be consolidated as "assault/heavy" pairs (TL Flamer/Heavy Flamer, TL Melta/Multimelta, TL Plasma/Plasma Cannon). Even if it was something like: "Choose an effect to apply to your shots", there would have been purpose to them.

You're going to use them as an assault unit with good fire support, as 4 Combi Weapons and the Autocannon is a good thing now? What kind of silly question, bordering on stupid, was THAT? If you want a suicide unit look elsewhere.

Solo Obliterators and Mutilators wasn't good ever, contrary to JancoranHammer. The new ones only need Assault 3 on their guns, which isn't too hard of an update.

Getting to fire your meltaguns more than once is nice. Is it worth tripling the cost of combi-meltas when DS deployment rules are so restrictive, the defender allocates all casualties, and Terminators don't get any additional attacks in melee, and your opponent can withdraw without penalty, or smite into melee? How dare I have my doubts.

Also, Jancoranhammer? Mr. "Pathfinder Special Weapon Teams" Jancoran? If you're going to disagree with me, disagree with me and not another polemic that gives questionable advice without disclaimers.

1. Deep Strike isn't restrictive. Be 9" away and you get a perfect landing and can potentially make a charge. Seems like a good tradeoff to me to last edition. Pros and Cons and such.
2. Seeing as it's a Terminator getting infinite use of a Melta Gun with their Bolters, yeah that's worth the increase in cost. Same with Plasma. Won't comment on Combi-Flamer as I tried that only once and with terrible results 2 editions ago.
3. They have Power Weapons and really don't need additional attacks in melee?
4. You don't withdraw from combat with no penalty unless you're specific types of units. Not being able to do Jack gak is kinda a penalty?
5. Smite is alright, I'll give you that.

What I have found is, a 9" zone is actually far less generous than it looks, especially when enemies spread out in formation. A throwaway unit can effectively push you 27"+ away from DSing near a target you might actually want to threaten: 9" away from backfield unit, plus another 9" between backfield unit and frontal unit, plus another 9" away from the screening unit, plus base sizes. Even if this is an exaggeration of theoryhammer, this means an opponent that deploys his units 18" apart creates dead-zone between them...that's the sort of opening DS was able to exploit.

 CthulhuDawg wrote:

 ProfViolence wrote:
I like most of the core rule changes except for vehicles (but I'll get use to it). It plays smoother and quicker.

I am pretty happy with what they did to my Tyranids. Much more playable. Should win some games with them now.

Annoyed they took away my looted wagons. "Use every model in your collection" my a**. My son and I have 6 looted wagons in our Ork force (yeah, we like to kit bash). For Father's Day today, he gave me a Hydra to loot. (Obviously gotten before yesterday when we saw the new rules). I hope there are rules for them when they drop the codex.

To be fair we didn't really get Looted Wagons last edition either, shoe horned White Dwarf rules don't count The way I'm choosing to look at it is like I gained 8 ard' case battle wagons

Fair enough. No one I played against had a problem with the WD rules though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Redbeard wrote:

CthulhuDawg wrote:

 ProfViolence wrote:


Annoyed they took away my looted wagons. "Use every model in your collection" my a**. My son and I have 6 looted wagons in our Ork force (yeah, we like to kit bash). For Father's Day today, he gave me a Hydra to loot. (Obviously gotten before yesterday when we saw the new rules). I hope there are rules for them when they drop the codex.

To be fair we didn't really get Looted Wagons last edition either, shoe horned White Dwarf rules don't count The way I'm choosing to look at it is like I gained 8 ard' case battle wagons

I don't understand - why can't you take those models? Open play lets you take anything you want. Bring the looted basilisk.

No stats for boom gunz in the list. And a looted wagon without a boom gun is just a 'counts as' Trukk, really.

I'm sure we will figure out how to creatively field them, either under the RAW or with 'gentlemen's agreements.'

BTW, Redbeard, is that Squiqqoth in your avatar knitted or crocheted? If it is the later, I think I found my wife's next project.

Why do you need stats for a boomgun - it's a basilisk, pay the points for a basilisk, take a basilisk, use basilisk stats. That's the essence of open play, isn't it?

And, it's crocheted, my wife made it for me

So you can charge out of transports in the same turn but can Models charge out of fliers too? Example, Terminators in a Stormraven disembark and charge same turn?

To sum up:

BrianDavion wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:

I'm upset that this thing I liked to do before doesn't work anymore.

I thought that thing you liked was dumb.

See I can't really get behind this statement. There was a guy who had 25 drop pods and 25 dreadnoughts to go in them (im not joking) and now he can't play his list. First of all, what the hell kind of 6000 point games is he playing? I can't feel sorry for people who buy models that way and expect them to still be 100% unchanged as editions go forward. As far as 3 terminator squads go, its a lot less severe then 25 drop pod dreads, but again, don't they come in packs of 5?

"but its how I liked to play!" People LOVED taudar and biker deathstars. People loved casting invisibility on their night lords Demon Princes. People loved Tzeentch spam. Where exactly do we draw the line? Certain play styles were bound to change, and I just don't see the point in playing the blame game.

 mrhappyface wrote:

20 man Ork Boy unit: Power level 10.
Dreadnought: Power level 8.
I don't see the problem here.

20 Orc boyz are Power level 9.

 mrhappyface wrote:

EDIT: Also you didn't do the math at all, an Ork boy unit would take 3 rounds to destroy a Dreadnought IF no Ork boys die from the Dread's return attacks.

I did the math, your math is wrong. 20 Orc boyz have 4 attacks each, thats 80 attacks, hitting on 3+, thats 53 hits, wounding on 5+, thats 18 wounds, Dreadnought has 3+ save, so it suffers 6 wounds. In the next round its dead. With a bit of luck its gone in one round. Thats excluding two Boss Nobs with Power klaws. One Power klaw is S10, AP-3 and D3 wounds. Power level remains 9 with the Boss nobs and Power Klaws. With 2 Nobs and 18 Orc boyz the Dreadnought is killed in one round.