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This has nothing to do with the power level of the necrons in 8e. Honestly, they seem decent enough. They're just... extra shallow.
Again, don't get me wrong; I fell in love with their first codex; the faceless ebon hordes lit by their unholy green inner light... There's no customization in the main force. The only decision about the warriors, and immortals, was how many there would be to live, die, and live again... serving forever in the legions of the damned.
But they had some serious customization in their leaders. You could take that lord or overlord and put your stamp on it. Make it a character unto itself.

The next 'dex, that we've just ended, changed many things. It slashed the customization of the lords and overlords. It gave us the idea of dynasties, but took the ability to make those dynasties terribly different and unique. We have two official ones now... and, by the ancient ways, we'll like them or have something even more generic. On the other hand it brought the harbingers. I hate the cryptek models, the cryptek rules annoy me, but I love their concept... They were masters of technology that had no way to interact with the canopteks they were supposed to control or the machines of war they were supposed to maintain.

Then this edition came and took even that. Lords and Overlords can choose whether to have resurrection orbs (but not phylacteries, those are reserved for destroyer lords). Crypteks can choose... whether to be one of the named, Imperium... err GW ...sanctioned individuals. And still can't actually fix any machines, having to rely on their monstrous, autonomous, walking toolboxes for that.

This ability to customize is obviously something near and dear to me.


So, here's a confession. My last couple "necron" army lists in 7e were proxied Space Marine lists. FNP filled in for that edition's reanimation protocols nicely, while Immortal models have a close enough silhouette (and stat line) few would complain. I had grey knights that served as the anti-psykers of yore... something that's clearly coming back into the fluff in 8e with the opening shots being chaos destroying the ancient (often necron) pylons holding it at bay while the reawakened necrons are restarting their anti-warp/psyker constructions to keep fending off the thing they have no other response to. Then I built the remainder of a more typical dynasty out of Iron Hands. I had no canopteks, but I was ok with that- the wraiths, scarabs, and spiders have never really held my interest the way those faceless hordes did.

So, now, I'm presented with a sliver of a book that gives me no particular connection... and two books of customize-able, mix-and-match-able imperium. I'd like to play by-the-book necrons. At some point I'm probably going to want to go play at a tourney and should be accustomed to playing what my models actually are. But all I can think is the heavy bolter stat line looks a lot like a way to get the slow march and heavy fire of immortals. The apothecary fills a similar role to the cryptek as written; bringing the unthinking and faithful hordes back to the fight, and I could mix in adeptus mechanus as another type of cryptek more focused on the larger machines of war. The most technologically advanced race would get access to variable abilities for their machines of war, "seen as the personal weapons of the overlord."
And my lords and overlords (captains, chapter masters, and the like) would have levels of customization undreamed. That we lowly xenos players might hope for- but likely in vain.

Seems like you got into necron a during their 5th Ed codex, as opposed to the codex prior to that where, you had basically no customization at all. There were no overlords, just lords and destroyer lords. They could take a couple unique war fear items, but that was it. My advice is that if you are a tournament player play the actual necron rules. Necron so counts as marines would be very confusing and if kept consistent with necron models not very good. The when they get an actually codex see how that strikes you, but they are likely never going to have the flexibility of marines. If you just play with friends, do whatever make you happy.

The indexes only serve to bring the units in existance to the table in the new edition. Real customization is likely to come with the codex. No sense having anyone get their pantys in a bunch just because the place holders are not super expansive or deep.

Breng77 wrote:
Seems like you got into necron a during their 5th Ed codex, as opposed to the codex prior to that where, you had basically no customization at all. There were no overlords, just lords and destroyer lords. They could take a couple unique war fear items, but that was it. My advice is that if you are a tournament player play the actual necron rules. Necron so counts as marines would be very confusing and if kept consistent with necron models not very good. The when they get an actually codex see how that strikes you, but they are likely never going to have the flexibility of marines. If you just play with friends, do whatever make you happy.

Technically the Destroyer Lord wasn't even a separate choice back then; it was just the lord with a wargear that gave more stats (it was basically the bike upgrade for necrons).

However back then most people didn't have much in the way of choices. Hell most codexes didn't even have more than 2 choices for some slots.

It was a simpler time, if a tad boring.

Breng77 wrote:
Seems like you got into necron a during their 5th Ed codex, as opposed to the codex prior to that where, you had basically no customization at all. There were no overlords, just lords and destroyer lords. They could take a couple unique war fear items, but that was it. My advice is that if you are a tournament player play the actual necron rules. Necron so counts as marines would be very confusing and if kept consistent with necron models not very good. The when they get an actually codex see how that strikes you, but they are likely never going to have the flexibility of marines. If you just play with friends, do whatever make you happy.

yup. That's when I started looking at necrons (and 40k at large); the first full codex.
And I agree with most of that. I've never actually played in a tourney. Most of the time I've had models I had friends to play with, but some moves and life changes have made it more likely that my opportunities to break out the models will be organized play...
But, like I said, I don't want the seething masses to have huge flexibility. Just those key, for lack of a better term, individual characters.

 Lance845 wrote:
The indexes only serve to bring the units in existance to the table in the new edition. Real customization is likely to come with the codex. No sense having anyone get their pantys in a bunch just because the place holders are not super expansive or deep.

I'm not sure "panties in a bunch" is the right phrase. I mean it's a demeaning, condescending phrase, yeah. But not really appropriate.
I'm disappointed that the necron's were essentially an appendix of the eldar index. I don't expect them to fill two whole indexes. I mean, that would be more than a codex. But, that said, it doesn't seem unreasonable to want more customization of the few customizable units than "res orb y/n". Oh, c'tan shards; which of 3 psychic abilities c'tan powers.

Yes, we'll have to see what the codex brings to see what the "real" answer is in this edition. I anticipate that'll be months, if not a year or more during which these are the options. History says we have to give the new special, special marines a deeper rubdown first, after all. Maybe dataslates will open that up sooner....
Either way, now seems like the perfect time to add my voice to the collected community reaction saying "hey, this is what necron players want when that codex does show up."

As part of that I'll probably start writing up specific things that I want to see in the same way I did for the previous edition at some point (ie; the links in my first post for doing that in the last edition). I can already see some things that I want to do that with... (lookin' at you, again, pariahs) but I need to get my head around this ruleset a little better first.

Wait for the codex - everyone is dealing with this reduced customization and variety - but it's a good thing, too much rules bloat and power creep existed before.

Plus historically, Necrons have never been about customization - they were an identical, faceless horde of terminator-esque units.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
Seems like you got into necron a during their 5th Ed codex, as opposed to the codex prior to that where, you had basically no customization at all. There were no overlords, just lords and destroyer lords. They could take a couple unique war fear items, but that was it. My advice is that if you are a tournament player play the actual necron rules. Necron so counts as marines would be very confusing and if kept consistent with necron models not very good. The when they get an actually codex see how that strikes you, but they are likely never going to have the flexibility of marines. If you just play with friends, do whatever make you happy.

Technically the Destroyer Lord wasn't even a separate choice back then; it was just the lord with a wargear that gave more stats (it was basically the bike upgrade for necrons).

However back then most people didn't have much in the way of choices. Hell most codexes didn't even have more than 2 choices for some slots.

It was a simpler time, if a tad boring.

I remember 4th ed being highly customisable, Chaos had a plethora of options and wargear. Marines could build their own chapter with drawbacks and bonuses (they were so fun). Nids could build Fexes in a dozen ways as either Elites or heavies. Necrons admittedly had little customisability though.

5th ed I found to be bland and lacking customisability as so much got stripped out, especially Marines, Chaos, Daemonhunters.

Breng77 wrote:
Seems like you got into necron a during their 5th Ed codex, as opposed to the codex prior to that where, you had basically no customization at all.

That's not true at all. Most units had little to no customisation, sure. However, The Necron Lord made up for that by being incredibly customisable. You only had 2 weapons (SoL and Warscyte), though both were pretty good (it was his WS4 and BS4 that let him down), however, you then had a range of items - phylactery, resurrection orb, veil of darkness, night shroud, phase shifter, destroyer body, chronometron, disruption field, gaze of flame, lightning field, solar pulse.

Compare that to pitiful selection we have now. And again, this might be okay in a different army, but with Necrons the whole point is that *only* the HQs have any real degree of customisation to begin with.

Breng77 wrote:
There were no overlords, just lords and destroyer lords.

Which was a good thing, because the only thing Overlords ever did was make regular Lords completely redundant.

 vipoid wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
Seems like you got into necron a during their 5th Ed codex, as opposed to the codex prior to that where, you had basically no customization at all.

That's not true at all. Most units had little to no customisation, sure. However, The Necron Lord made up for that by being incredibly customisable. You only had 2 weapons (SoL and Warscyte), though both were pretty good (it was his WS4 and BS4 that let him down), however, you then had a range of items - phylactery, resurrection orb, veil of darkness, night shroud, phase shifter, destroyer body, chronometron, disruption field, gaze of flame, lightning field, solar pulse.

Compare that to pitiful selection we have now. And again, this might be okay in a different army, but with Necrons the whole point is that *only* the HQs have any real degree of customisation to begin with.

Breng77 wrote:
There were no overlords, just lords and destroyer lords.

Which was a good thing, because the only thing Overlords ever did was make regular Lords completely redundant.

So one model had customization, and if I recall he could only take 2 of those items. So as an army, basically no customization at all. You had 1 troop choice, 1 Vehicle, like 3 elite choices, 3 fast attack, and 3 heavy support choices. None of which had options. Also compared to say a Marine captain or chaos lord, the necron lord still lacked a lot of customization. I'm not saying it is better now, but the inclusion of crypteks back in 5e was what killed lord customization because it took all their fancy wargear and put it on a different model. Now they reduced the crypteks as well. But your units have more options than before and you have more units, so overall customization of the army is greater than in 4e.

I do hope they get customization back, but it was never a highly customizable army in comparison to the rest of the field.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

C.Straken wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
Seems like you got into necron a during their 5th Ed codex, as opposed to the codex prior to that where, you had basically no customization at all. There were no overlords, just lords and destroyer lords. They could take a couple unique war fear items, but that was it. My advice is that if you are a tournament player play the actual necron rules. Necron so counts as marines would be very confusing and if kept consistent with necron models not very good. The when they get an actually codex see how that strikes you, but they are likely never going to have the flexibility of marines. If you just play with friends, do whatever make you happy.

Technically the Destroyer Lord wasn't even a separate choice back then; it was just the lord with a wargear that gave more stats (it was basically the bike upgrade for necrons).

However back then most people didn't have much in the way of choices. Hell most codexes didn't even have more than 2 choices for some slots.

It was a simpler time, if a tad boring.

I remember 4th ed being highly customisable, Chaos had a plethora of options and wargear. Marines could build their own chapter with drawbacks and bonuses (they were so fun). Nids could build Fexes in a dozen ways as either Elites or heavies. Necrons admittedly had little customisability though.

5th ed I found to be bland and lacking customisability as so much got stripped out, especially Marines, Chaos, Daemonhunters.

Yup 5th removed a lot of the customizability of units compared to 4th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

silentone2k wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
Seems like you got into necron a during their 5th Ed codex, as opposed to the codex prior to that where, you had basically no customization at all. There were no overlords, just lords and destroyer lords. They could take a couple unique war fear items, but that was it. My advice is that if you are a tournament player play the actual necron rules. Necron so counts as marines would be very confusing and if kept consistent with necron models not very good. The when they get an actually codex see how that strikes you, but they are likely never going to have the flexibility of marines. If you just play with friends, do whatever make you happy.

yup. That's when I started looking at necrons (and 40k at large); the first full codex.
And I agree with most of that. I've never actually played in a tourney. Most of the time I've had models I had friends to play with, but some moves and life changes have made it more likely that my opportunities to break out the models will be organized play...
But, like I said, I don't want the seething masses to have huge flexibility. Just those key, for lack of a better term, individual characters.

I've seen things like orks counts as marines/IG at tournaments, but they were highly converted models using the weapons that went with the army they were representing, not simply proxying for another race. I think if your idea is going to tournaments and want a necron force that looks like a necron force, sticking with the index (and hoping for more customization from the codex, though I'm not sure how hopeful I am for that). That said, it really depends on the tournament, it would be trickier to do the counts as in a tourney where you are not familiar with the crowd, or a larger tournament, than one at your local shop where people are accustomed to your army.

Breng77 wrote:
So one model had customization, and if I recall he could only take 2 of those items.

No, he could take up to 100pts of them (usually about 3, but more if he took the cheap ones). Plus exchanging his SoL for a Warscythe wasn't included in that allowance.

Breng77 wrote:
So as an army, basically no customization at all. You had 1 troop choice, 1 Vehicle, like 3 elite choices, 3 fast attack, and 3 heavy support choices. None of which had options.

Oh, indeed. But my point was the all the customisation was in that one HQ choice, and now even that is gone.

Breng77 wrote:
Also compared to say a Marine captain or chaos lord, the necron lord still lacked a lot of customization.

He had far fewer weapons but more utility stuff, I think.

Breng77 wrote:
I'm not saying it is better now, but the inclusion of crypteks back in 5e was what killed lord customization because it took all their fancy wargear and put it on a different model. Now they reduced the crypteks as well.

Yep.

Breng77 wrote:
But your units have more options than before and you have more units, so overall customization of the army is greater than in 4e.

Well, a few units have options. The rest either have none or can maybe exchange one weapon.

You've got more unit options than in 4th, but in terms of customising HQ models I'd argue it's way worse now.

 vipoid wrote:


You've got more unit options than in 4th, but in terms of customising HQ models I'd argue it's way worse now.

Yeah for the most part that is true, that for most armies there is less HQ customization. In large part they removed options from models that are anything other than weapons.

My overall point was that if you really liked customization Necrons was never a great army for that. The lord was somewhat customizable 3 codexes ago, but for the most part it has been an army with very little customization. Really if you want customization Marines have always been the go to (chaos or Imperial), followed by IG. Once upon a time Tyranids would also have been a go to for this. Most other races have very little customization in their units. With Necrons topping the list of units with little to no customization.

Breng77 wrote:
Yeah for the most part that is true, that for most armies there is less HQ customization. In large part they removed options from models that are anything other than weapons.

Indeed.

Breng77 wrote:
My overall point was that if you really liked customization Necrons was never a great army for that.

Oh, absolutely.

Breng77 wrote:
Really if you want customization Marines have always been the go to (chaos or Imperial), followed by IG. Once upon a time Tyranids would also have been a go to for this. Most other races have very little customization in their units. With Necrons topping the list of units with little to no customization.

I agree that Necrons have always been one of the worst in this regard, but you don't put out a fire by pouring gasoline on it.

 vipoid wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
Really if you want customization Marines have always been the go to (chaos or Imperial), followed by IG. Once upon a time Tyranids would also have been a go to for this. Most other races have very little customization in their units. With Necrons topping the list of units with little to no customization.

I agree that Necrons have always been one of the worst in this regard, but you don't put out a fire by pouring gasoline on it.

This.
I don't want some ridiculous customization of every unit in my formation. Honestly, while I understand the business drive that expanded the number of models available to Necrons, most of them don't really interest me as much as just fielding warriors/immortals.
I just want to be able to customize my one (or few) key characters that lead around their faceless hordes at least as much as other armies customize every random joe or their leader.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
Seems like you got into necron a during their 5th Ed codex, as opposed to the codex prior to that where, you had basically no customization at all. There were no overlords, just lords and destroyer lords. They could take a couple unique war fear items, but that was it. My advice is that if you are a tournament player play the actual necron rules. Necron so counts as marines would be very confusing and if kept consistent with necron models not very good. The when they get an actually codex see how that strikes you, but they are likely never going to have the flexibility of marines. If you just play with friends, do whatever make you happy.

Technically the Destroyer Lord wasn't even a separate choice back then; it was just the lord with a wargear that gave more stats (it was basically the bike upgrade for necrons).

However back then most people didn't have much in the way of choices. Hell most codexes didn't even have more than 2 choices for some slots.

It was a simpler time, if a tad boring.

Yeah, the destroyer lord is actually an 30pt upgrade for the lord that gives him +1T and changes his unit type to jetbike, iirc
Most necron infantry could also take disruption fields, which was basically melee gauss.

Necrons not having that many options across the board is an army theme. Its consistent with their background as mainly being subservient drones let by a few autonomous individuals. It makes perfect sense that warriors can't take what ever they want.
That said, the index is perhaps the most lacking of options for necrons; even the 3rd ed codex had more, and in fact the index is missing gear that had been around since the 3rd book.
I want my veil back

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
Seems like you got into necron a during their 5th Ed codex, as opposed to the codex prior to that where, you had basically no customization at all. There were no overlords, just lords and destroyer lords. They could take a couple unique war fear items, but that was it. My advice is that if you are a tournament player play the actual necron rules. Necron so counts as marines would be very confusing and if kept consistent with necron models not very good. The when they get an actually codex see how that strikes you, but they are likely never going to have the flexibility of marines. If you just play with friends, do whatever make you happy.

Technically the Destroyer Lord wasn't even a separate choice back then; it was just the lord with a wargear that gave more stats (it was basically the bike upgrade for necrons).

However back then most people didn't have much in the way of choices. Hell most codexes didn't even have more than 2 choices for some slots.

It was a simpler time, if a tad boring.

Yeah, the destroyer lord is actually an 30pt upgrade for the lord that gives him +1T and changes his unit type to jetbike, iirc
Most necron infantry could also take disruption fields, which was basically melee gauss.

Necrons not having that many options across the board is an army theme. Its consistent with their background as mainly being subservient drones let by a few autonomous individuals. It makes perfect sense that warriors can't take what ever they want.
That said, the index is perhaps the most lacking of options for necrons; even the 3rd ed codex had more, and in fact the index is missing gear that had been around since the 3rd book.
I want my veil back

I'm noticing that pretty much all the wargear missing are things that cannot be directly modeled. I really hope this IS mostly a temp thing and it's not the future of rules. I don't mind that for generic infantry, but for your captain, you really should have some "special stuff"

As an old gnarly gamer, I actually love the slimming down of options. One of the many reasons I love Necrons is that is that there is less stuff for me to forget during a game.

That said, I would expect lots to come back in Codexes. This is a pretty hard reset, and it makes sense to me for GW to keep only essentials that will survive the transition from Index to Codex. Why publish involved rules that would perhaps radically shift in a year or two?

The only exception I see to this is anything Finecast. It's cool that they included rules for things like all the Necron characters, but I expect them all to be dropped in the next Codex (other than a few that may get new plastic models).

Sleboda wrote:
As an old gnarly gamer, I actually love the slimming down of options. One of the many reasons I love Necrons is that is that there is less stuff for me to forget during a game.

That said, I would expect lots to come back in Codexes. This is a pretty hard reset, and it makes sense to me for GW to keep only essentials that will survive the transition from Index to Codex. Why publish involved rules that would perhaps radically shift in a year or two?

The only exception I see to this is anything Finecast. It's cool that they included rules for things like all the Necron characters, but I expect them all to be dropped in the next Codex (other than a few that may get new plastic models).

I'm hoping some sort of HQ customization comes back in the Codex. I'm not sure what else, game wise, they'll add to what they put out in the index. Aside from more nonsense; which is what I feel most of the units added to the necrons since that old 5e codex have been. I assume (hope) some warlord traits (since both Legendary Fighter and Inspiring Leader seem pointless to my Warriors) and more stratagems (if I take the Traveler rerolls with the Arrow might be useful... but that's about it in the default)... but that seems a lot more like a dataslate than a codex.