Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've decided to make a dedicated chosen squad with 4 combi weapons for the chosen, 1 for the champion and having one other special weapon. However, I do not know what to use. Combi flamers would be great because in rapid fire range I could do 6D6 flamer hits with 10 bolter shots, whereas with combi plasma it would be 12 plasma and 10 bolter shots all hitting on 4s.

Are there any math-hammer based reasons for taking one over the other? Or should I stick with straight combi bolters and do 22 bolter shots?

How are you kitting out your chosen?

I think flamers or plasma are both valid choices depending on the rest of your army and how you plan on delivering them.

Auto hits are guaranteed. Then again it depends on what the red of your army does and what you need this unit to do.

Combi-flamers are incredible because of the 4 shots from rapid fire + the d6 auto hits that can be fired together.

The other nice things about combi flamers is they aren't affected by the -1 when shooting both weapons as much and whatever you might want to shoot with bolters, flamers can also hurt.

Debilitate wrote:
Combi-flamers are incredible because of the 4 shots from rapid fire + the d6 auto hits that can be fired together.

Not quite. You would get the standard rapid fire bolter, so 2 shots at 12, and then d6 auto from the flamer.

My mistake, I thought the combi-bolter profile was the same profile strapped on to combi-weapons. That seems weird/confusing that the combi-bolter profile is Rapid Fire 2 and the combi-weapons aren't.

Because a combi bolter is two bolters strapped together. Combi weapons are a bolter + something else.

sturgeondtd wrote:
I've decided to make a dedicated chosen squad with 4 combi weapons for the chosen, 1 for the champion and having one other special weapon. However, I do not know what to use. Combi flamers would be great because in rapid fire range I could do 6D6 flamer hits with 10 bolter shots, whereas with combi plasma it would be 12 plasma and 10 bolter shots all hitting on 4s.

Are there any math-hammer based reasons for taking one over the other? Or should I stick with straight combi bolters and do 22 bolter shots?

How are you kitting out your chosen?

Not sure. The real question is can you shoot the Plasma at one target and the Bolter at another, im thinking no. Assuming no, I would say Flamer it compliments the range and targets of the Bolter fairly well, also only 9 points compared to the Combi-Plasma's 15 points and ignores the negative hit modifier.

Yet again it's difficult to find a reason to take chosen in this edition.

If you want to spam special weapons, you're probably just better off taking Havocs - they're cheaper per model, they don't contest elites slots with your cult troops, they have an arguably better range of special weapons and heavy weapons, they're exactly as durable.

If you want "combi weapons", it might be worth considering biker squads. A 3 man biker squad with 2 specials and a combi-special on the champion throws out a lot of shots. Taking flamers as an example you get 3d6 flamer hits, 12 bolter shots hitting on 3+, and 2 bolter shots hitting on 4+, you can also then assault with 7 attacks if you take the chainswords instead of pistols. This is also tougher (except against D2 attacks) than chosen, fast enough to deliver itself to the fight (unlike chosen).

EDIT: sorry, definitely not cheaper (unless you're also including costs of transports to get within 8" range).

Right now my list is a battalion detachment with 2 squads of combi-flamer CHOSEN in rhinos, 1 squad of combi-plasma CHOSEN in a dreadclaw with a combi-plasma lord, an apostle, 3 squads of cultists, 2x20 and one 10. There is also 1 autocannon havoc squad and 2 lascannon havoc squads.

*Edited Havocs to CHOSEN due to previous error

sturgeondtd wrote:
Right now my list is a battalion detachment with 2 squads of combi-flamer havocs in rhinos, 1 squad of combi-plasma in a dreadclaw with a combi-plasma lord, an apostle, 3 squads of cultists, 2x20 and one 10. There is also 1 autocannon havoc squad and 2 lascannon havoc squads.

Just looking at the data sheet, it seems the Havocs can't take combi-weapons, only special and heavy weapons. You could happily do that with a Vanguard detachment of chosen, though.

Again, depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

Flamers = auto hits = nice.
Bolters = rapid fire w/ a bunch of shots to take out massed infantry (okay - lots of overwatch shots as well)
Plasma = Stronger than bolters
Melta = a nice option to take out characters/vehicles/heavily armoured foes if needed.

I have a combi-bolter on my warlord because he was modeled that way. My terminator squad has two combi-bolters and two combi-meltas + reaper autocannon. This allows them to do kinda/sorta anything.

I accidentally called my Chosen "Havocs" instead in my above comment. Only the heavy weapons are havocs.

People are overlooking two important features of chosen - they get more attacks and have better leadership. The attacks are useful because you either want combi-flames and are thus in charge range or you want combo-plasma need a lord to babysit them,who by default wants to get into combat himself. Sochosen are better from the perspective of using these weapons at close range (alltalk is about <12" and then assaulting. Havocs don't want to be in combat really. Also leadership is a thing. You need to kill 4 chosen to even force the possibility of a morale failure, and then it's only a 6 that does it. Havocs can lose 3 and need to roll and if they lose 4 there now a 1/3 chance of failure. You're getting a free icon of vengeance for your +15 points spend, that's worth 10 points.

These squads want to charge after shooting so chosen are better for that.

I checked the index and havoc scant take combi weapons, only regular specials. Given the bolster partof a combi weapon costs 2pts more than he base special it seems a no-brainier that chosen are better unless you really need to shave those points. Your havoc squad will then not be 23 points cheaper though. Will nearly buy you a lascannon, that's about it.