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In an optimistic train of thought i had earlier today I told myself that chapter tactics could come back. And in the hope that they would, I tried to think about what i'd like to see for my black templars.
In the old codex I really liked the concept where if you shot down a BT, his squad would move toward the shooter in a burst of righteous anger... ofc that led to some problem since the BT player couldnt choose to ignore this ruling, making it easy to kite BTs around... i would like to see that rule come back with some twist to make it work with the new system minus the kiting part.
What about your chapter? What chapter tactics would you like to see in the new edition?

Chapter: Craftworld <Custom>
Rule: Fire Prisms become useful again.

Chapter: Blood Angels
Rule: Nobody is allowed to play them anymore (I'm not a fan)

Chapter: Black Templars
Rule: If a Neophyte dies, his Crusader unit gains +1A per model the next time they fight. Stackable.

I am actually glad that they are gone. Marines and their spiky variants should just be differentiated by a paint job. The four big chapters and the four cult traitor legions should be the sole exception to this rule. GW would have then more time to flesh out other factions that are NOT goons in powered armour.

 Selym wrote:
Chapter: Craftworld <Custom>
Rule: Fire Prisms become useful again.

Chapter: Blood Angels
Rule: Nobody is allowed to play them anymore (I'm not a fan)

Chapter: Black Templars
Rule: If a Neophyte dies, his Crusader unit gains +1A per model the next time they fight. Stackable.

Those are some well tought and balanced Chapter Tactics, yes.

<Regiment>: 2nd Concordian Independent Superheavy Tank Regiment
Rule: Titanic models in this regiment can move and fire heavy weapons without penalty.

<Forge World>: Anchyche
Rule: Ordinatus engines get 8th edition 40k rules

The problem with "X tactics" is that they only give you bonuses.

Every X tactic that they made should give you bonuses with a proper counter bonuss that it really matters for the army.

For example, if you could give all of your Khornate units +1 attack at the cost of -1 BS, that isn't gonna be balanced, because as a meele army the dowside is just non existant.

Other way to do this is giving your "X tactics" for a cost per unit that used that "Tactic", so you are paying with points instead of downsides.

Iron Hands:
<Something> so there is a reason to take this faction keyword other than limiting your HQ choices.

Just wait for the codex release. Until then, everyone mostly has this treatment. Yeah certain Chapters get characters but the Chapter in general doesn't have anything special going on besides that.

Expect it to function like Allegiance in AoS. If your whole army is a certain faction, you'll get access to one or two special rules (probably based on the previous edition's Chapter Tactics), a unique set of warlord traits and probably a list of relics. Some armies will probably get their own psychic powers too. So the drawback will be that you lose the flexibility of using one of the other possible factions - so no 'Imperium' detachments.

Strg Alt wrote:I am actually glad that they are gone. Marines and their spiky variants should just be differentiated by a paint job. The four big chapters and the four cult traitor legions should be the sole exception to this rule. GW would have then more time to flesh out other factions that are NOT goons in powered armour.

I understand that you are not a fan of the space marines, that's alright, the problem however, imo, is that right now some of those spiky variants, even major ones, are left in the dust with no reason to play them, since they have no, or lesser, HQ choices and no chapter tactics to give them a different play style, so they're the same, but not as good.

Galas wrote:The problem with "X tactics" is that they only give you bonuses.

Every X tactic that they made should give you bonuses with a proper counter bonuss that it really matters for the army.

For example, if you could give all of your Khornate units +1 attack at the cost of -1 BS, that isn't gonna be balanced, because as a meele army the dowside is just non existant.

Other way to do this is giving your "X tactics" for a cost per unit that used that "Tactic", so you are paying with points instead of downsides.

I agree with the idea of having an equivalent downside for every bonuses a chapter would get, that would add much more tactical differences between chapters and keep a semblence of balance.

Chapter Tacitcs are only fine if :

They are bonuses but are paid for
They are bonuses but have real drawbacks
Everyone gets the same for free.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Chapter Tacitcs are only fine if :

They are bonuses but are paid for
They are bonuses but have real drawbacks
Everyone gets the same for free.

That third one is what I'm hoping for with everyone getting <Somethingsomething> keywords for Septs, Marks of Chaos and the like.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Chapter Tacitcs are only fine if :

They are bonuses but are paid for
They are bonuses but have real drawbacks
Everyone gets the same for free.

That third one is what I'm hoping for with everyone getting <Somethingsomething> keywords for Septs, Marks of Chaos and the like.

That would be cool - In some ways rather than a series of Codex's I would have prefered a sereis of books expanind the options and fuff for ALL armies

Lovebeard wrote:

Strg Alt wrote:I am actually glad that they are gone. Marines and their spiky variants should just be differentiated by a paint job. The four big chapters and the four cult traitor legions should be the sole exception to this rule. GW would have then more time to flesh out other factions that are NOT goons in powered armour.

I understand that you are not a fan of the space marines, that's alright, the problem however, imo, is that right now some of those spiky variants, even major ones, are left in the dust with no reason to play them, since they have no, or lesser, HQ choices and no chapter tactics to give them a different play style, so they're the same, but not as good.

Galas wrote:The problem with "X tactics" is that they only give you bonuses.

Every X tactic that they made should give you bonuses with a proper counter bonuss that it really matters for the army.

For example, if you could give all of your Khornate units +1 attack at the cost of -1 BS, that isn't gonna be balanced, because as a meele army the dowside is just non existant.

Other way to do this is giving your "X tactics" for a cost per unit that used that "Tactic", so you are paying with points instead of downsides.

I agree with the idea of having an equivalent downside for every bonuses a chapter would get, that would add much more tactical differences between chapters and keep a semblence of balance.

That´s not quite correct. I only have a problem with GW´s focus on SM and not with their aesthetics. My collection includes about 200 models of SM & CSM which are also fully painted. This means that my demand for soldiers in power armour is saturated. What bothers me is that the limelight is always on SM in one incarnation or another.

Traitors left in the dust
I beg to differ. Tzeentch got new models (TS, TS Terminators, Tzaangors, Brimstone Horrors, Sorcerers on discs) with the release of their Primarch. Nurgle got new Marines, Characters, Plague Zombies and a Blight/Bloat Drone. Terminators and Mortarion will follow in the near future. Khorne will get eventually new stuff and only Slaanesh is in dire straits because GW is afraid of transsexual demons in the hands of the target demographic which are twelve-year olds.
To sum it up, you should be happy, if you are a Tzeentch or Nurgle collector. Most of your units are represented by new models. Other non-meq factions won´t get anything new for decades.

Yes, I know only SM are the top-sellers. But why is this the case? They are hyped straight into orbit and other armies are omitted. Just walk into a GW store. You see SM in all flavours. But try to look for Guard infantry. Just one lone cadian box. No catachans, mordians, tallarns, etc. GW should remake those basic grunt squads and they will sell like sliced bread, too.
Are remakes sufficient to rejuvenate factions? Of course not! I would for example like to see choppers and jeeps for my catachan infantry force. And what is GW doing? Hmm, we need to sell stuff. What is it going to be? Yeah, just sell bigger marines, bigger Dreadnoughts, floating Land Raiders...
As long as people buy this kind of garbage all the other factions stay neglected and I won´t see my chopper and my jeep.

Chaos Codex is rather lacklustre in the rules department (chapter tactics, HQ choice)
So what? Do you want chapter tactics on par with SM? You can forget this right away. Since the infamous Chaos Codex 3.5 all of their following books were inferior to SM publications. It is a design concept. Love it or leave it. On the one hand you have the saviours of mankind with awesome wargear and on the other hand you have the neglected punching bags from the Warp.
Chaos HQ choices include the Lord and the Sorcerer. A few years ago the Warpsmith and the Chaplain-equivalent were introduced. Now the only unit that is missing is the Apothecary. Is this so bad? I don´t think so.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Chapter Tacitcs are only fine if :

They are bonuses but are paid for
They are bonuses but have real drawbacks
Everyone gets the same for free.

Nobody should pay for the bonuses. I'm all for different draw backs (Carcharodons for example had a Come The Apocalypse clause for all Imperium allies and won't ally with anything else) but without those bonuses, Space Marines are super lacking for their points. Well, at least certain units. Balance is definitely better than it's been in awhile.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Chapter Tacitcs are only fine if :

They are bonuses but are paid for
They are bonuses but have real drawbacks
Everyone gets the same for free.

Nobody should pay for the bonuses. I'm all for different draw backs (Carcharodons for example had a Come The Apocalypse clause for all Imperium allies and won't ally with anything else) but without those bonuses, Space Marines are super lacking for their points. Well, at least certain units. Balance is definitely better than it's been in awhile.

Thats the exact tipe of drawbacks that are just useless. If you didn't had planned to ally with anyone is like having no drawback.
And you shouldn't assume those bonuses at the time to make a army viable. Thats why you need the vanilla version of the units with no bonuses, and then make the tactics balanced with upsides and downsides. So you can run an "vanilla army" without those rules, if you fell like it.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Chapter Tacitcs are only fine if :

They are bonuses but are paid for
They are bonuses but have real drawbacks
Everyone gets the same for free.

Nobody should pay for the bonuses. I'm all for different draw backs (Carcharodons for example had a Come The Apocalypse clause for all Imperium allies and won't ally with anything else) but without those bonuses, Space Marines are super lacking for their points. Well, at least certain units. Balance is definitely better than it's been in awhile.

Everyone or noboody should pay for bonuses.

Space Marines are in the same palce as everyone else except they have the most options of all armies and Factions - they don;t need further special treatment.

Iron Hands already have the drawback without any benefits. If you want Marines to be Vanilla, then ditch all the Chapter specific keywords on Characters and their abilities.

 Galas wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Chapter Tacitcs are only fine if :

They are bonuses but are paid for
They are bonuses but have real drawbacks
Everyone gets the same for free.

Nobody should pay for the bonuses. I'm all for different draw backs (Carcharodons for example had a Come The Apocalypse clause for all Imperium allies and won't ally with anything else) but without those bonuses, Space Marines are super lacking for their points. Well, at least certain units. Balance is definitely better than it's been in awhile.

Thats the exact tipe of drawbacks that are just useless. If you didn't had planned to ally with anyone is like having no drawback.
And you shouldn't assume those bonuses at the time to make a army viable. Thats why you need the vanilla version of the units with no bonuses, and then make the tactics balanced with upsides and downsides. So you can run an "vanilla army" without those rules, if you fell like it.

It is a drawback at later army construction, as any restricting on list creation. It doesn't matter if you weren't using Librarians. It's still a drawback if you wanted the Black Templars force. It's STILL a drawback whether you acknowledge it or not. Same thing with Carcharodons. Just because I wasn't going to create an allied force doesn't make it not a drawback because of your lame reasoning.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Chapter Tacitcs are only fine if :

They are bonuses but are paid for
They are bonuses but have real drawbacks
Everyone gets the same for free.

Nobody should pay for the bonuses. I'm all for different draw backs (Carcharodons for example had a Come The Apocalypse clause for all Imperium allies and won't ally with anything else) but without those bonuses, Space Marines are super lacking for their points. Well, at least certain units. Balance is definitely better than it's been in awhile.

Everyone or noboody should pay for bonuses.

Space Marines are in the same palce as everyone else except they have the most options of all armies and Factions - they don;t need further special treatment.

And nobody should pay for those bonuses. Did I ever say Space Marines were the exception?

Is not a lame reasoning. The point that restrictions in list creation aren't real restrictions at all is a argument that can be made.
And having in account how unbalanced 40k has always been I don't think that speaks good about the "drawbacks" GW has been apply to their rulesets.

 Galas wrote:
Is not a lame reasoning. The point that restrictions in list creation aren't real restrictions at all is a argument that can be made.
And having in account how unbalanced 40k has always been I don't think that speaks good about the "drawbacks" GW has been apply to their rulesets.

Everyone remembers 3.5 edition Chaos where Iron Warriors lost two FA slots and gained a heavy slot, 0-1 restriction lost on obliterators and usage of Basalisks..

It's not a drawback if you never intended to use said slots.