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So can you really consolidate 3" from ccomb a to unit b . To keep unit b . From shooting next turn?

Keep in mind if Unit A has already attacked, and consolidates into opposing Unit B, then even if you avoid overwatch, it usually means that Unit B can attack you in CC in that turn.

wait they can overwatch units that did not directly charge at them? and fight? can the consolidating unit fight back?

If a model is engaged during the Fight Phase, it may attack using its profile one time.

Your unit charged and attacked. That's once.
Now it consolidates into a new enemy unit. That enemy unit cannot OW, since it's not the Charge Phase. However, your unit has already fought, and the enemy unit has not fought. So yes, they get to.

so this all means that shooty armies want to either bring CC in their squads or stay more than 4" away from other units in their own armies to avoid situations where one CC unit can tie up multiple units after having only charged one?

gendoikari87 wrote:
so this all means that shooty armies want to either bring CC in their squads or stay more than 4" away from other units in their own armies to avoid situations where one CC unit can tie up multiple units after having only charged one?

Unless they completely surround you somehow with 3" of move, you can't "tie down" units with consolidate anymore.

All you have to do is fall back with your shooty guys and then shoot them with other units. Falling back is always successful, no checks or dice rolls required.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
so this all means that shooty armies want to either bring CC in their squads or stay more than 4" away from other units in their own armies to avoid situations where one CC unit can tie up multiple units after having only charged one?

Unless they completely surround you somehow with 3" of move, you can't "tie down" units with consolidate anymore.

All you have to do is fall back with your shooty guys and then shoot them with other units. Falling back is always successful, no checks or dice rolls required.

you can't shoot when you fall back and they can't be shot if they're in cc. all they have to do is charge again next turn

gendoikari87 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
so this all means that shooty armies want to either bring CC in their squads or stay more than 4" away from other units in their own armies to avoid situations where one CC unit can tie up multiple units after having only charged one?

Unless they completely surround you somehow with 3" of move, you can't "tie down" units with consolidate anymore.

All you have to do is fall back with your shooty guys and then shoot them with other units. Falling back is always successful, no checks or dice rolls required.

you can't shoot when you fall back and they can't be shot if they're in cc. all they have to do is charge again next turn

So shoot them so much they can't charge next turn, simple stuff.

I would say NO the 2nd unit is not able to attack. for a few reasons. 1 NEVER have you ever been able to consolidate and then continue the fight either side(and would not be intended so). 2 you have steps in combat and your PAST the actual combat part consolidation is kind of like a clean up step.

Second last question on page 2:
https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Warhammer_40000_Designers_Commentary-ENG.pdf

Seems to indicate units can attack back if you consolidate into them.

KuneTao wrote:
I would say NO the 2nd unit is not able to attack. for a few reasons. 1 NEVER have you ever been able to consolidate and then continue the fight either side(and would not be intended so). 2 you have steps in combat and your PAST the actual combat part consolidation is kind of like a clean up step.

Read the first sentence of the Fight Phase. If any models are within 1" of an enemy unit, the unit may be chosen to fight in the Fight Phase. If you consolidate to within 1" of my unit, which is your choice, I will get a free attack on your unit.

The Fight Phase does not end until all units that are eligible to fight have done so. Once you've consolidated to within 1" of my unit, you have essentially activated my unit and I may now choose them to fight, as expressly granted permission by the aforementioned rule. Of course, I would not choose them to fight until my last unit, since your unit already attacked and my attack back is basically free.

Question about Falling Back.

From what Ive read and understand is that you cannot move thru other models even your own.

So if you are surrounded by the enemies' models, there is NO Way to fall back if you have no escape route.

Is this right?

If so then the rest of your unit cannot escape as no move is permitted if coherency is not maintained. So if you surround 1 model you can doom the entire unit????

Just seems wrong.

thanks for any clarification

 admironheart wrote:
Question about Falling Back.

From what Ive read and understand is that you cannot move thru other models even your own.

So if you are surrounded by the enemies' models, there is NO Way to fall back if you have no escape route.

Is this right?

If so then the rest of your unit cannot escape as no move is permitted if coherency is not maintained. So if you surround 1 model you can doom the entire unit????

Just seems wrong.

thanks for any clarification

A Fall Back move is a voluntary move. So, if you manage to get surrounded then, yes, you would be unable to fall back, unless you can Fly or are a Knight.

 admironheart wrote:
Question about Falling Back.

From what Ive read and understand is that you cannot move thru other models even your own.

So if you are surrounded by the enemies' models, there is NO Way to fall back if you have no escape route.

Is this right?

If so then the rest of your unit cannot escape as no move is permitted if coherency is not maintained. So if you surround 1 model you can doom the entire unit????

Just seems wrong.

thanks for any clarification

That brings up an interesting strategy against spaghetti lines, divide the line down the middle and when you consolidate, do so to keep the opponent from being able to get into coherency. The moral is don't spaghetti line.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

 admironheart wrote:
Question about Falling Back.

From what Ive read and understand is that you cannot move thru other models even your own.

So if you are surrounded by the enemies' models, there is NO Way to fall back if you have no escape route.

Is this right?

If so then the rest of your unit cannot escape as no move is permitted if coherency is not maintained. So if you surround 1 model you can doom the entire unit????

Just seems wrong.

thanks for any clarification

That brings up an interesting strategy against spaghetti lines, divide the line down the middle and when you consolidate, do so to keep the opponent from being able to get into coherency. The moral is don't spaghetti line.

No can do. The Spaghetti player can choose where the casualties go, so unless they screw up that strategy won't work.

Oh yeah. Well, never mind then.

WHOOPS! Ignore me! Corrected by poster below.

Thanks.

 Silentz wrote:
Important note on consolidation... each model has to end up closer to an enemy model. So if a model is already in base contact, it cannot get closer to an enemy model and CANNOT move.

However, a model that's 0.2" away from an enemy can move 3" and get 0.1" with a totally different model in a totally different unit. It ends closer, so it's legit.

Don't get in base contact, kids - limits your options.

Nope. You have to move closer to the *Closest* enemy model. You can't move towards different targets unless that target is closer.

Edited that bad advice out. For some reason I read it as moving towards the closest unit. Thanks for calling me out!

 Silentz wrote:
Edited that bad advice out. For some reason I read it as moving towards the closest unit. Thanks for calling me out!

No problem, new editions are always a bit confusing, and I've certainly gotten several rules wrong in my first few practice games. Cheers!

Waaaghpower wrote:

 Silentz wrote:
Important note on consolidation... each model has to end up closer to an enemy model. So if a model is already in base contact, it cannot get closer to an enemy model and CANNOT move.

However, a model that's 0.2" away from an enemy can move 3" and get 0.1" with a totally different model in a totally different unit. It ends closer, so it's legit.

Don't get in base contact, kids - limits your options.

Nope. You have to move closer to the *Closest* enemy model. You can't move towards different targets unless that target is closer.

Though, keep in mind that you're not forced to move the closest route. All you have to do is finish your move closer to the closest enemy model. You can easilly run clockwise and get engaged in cc with another enemy squad if positioning allows. If used right, you can get engaged with stuff that's pretty far from the initial target. Cause you can actually move towards other squads with your charge (as long as it's still closer to the first target than it's been at start) and than pile in towards them. You can't strike secondary targets and they can strike you but they can't fire overwatch and are forced to retreat next turn. That's probably the only way you can deal with vehicle spam if you don't spam anti-vehicle weapons yourself.

 puma713 wrote:

 admironheart wrote:
Question about Falling Back.

From what Ive read and understand is that you cannot move thru other models even your own.

So if you are surrounded by the enemies' models, there is NO Way to fall back if you have no escape route.

Is this right?

If so then the rest of your unit cannot escape as no move is permitted if coherency is not maintained. So if you surround 1 model you can doom the entire unit????

Just seems wrong.

thanks for any clarification

A Fall Back move is a voluntary move. So, if you manage to get surrounded then, yes, you would be unable to fall back, unless you can Fly or are a Knight.

or harlequin(they ignore terrain and models when moving)

 koooaei wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:

 Silentz wrote:
Important note on consolidation... each model has to end up closer to an enemy model. So if a model is already in base contact, it cannot get closer to an enemy model and CANNOT move.

However, a model that's 0.2" away from an enemy can move 3" and get 0.1" with a totally different model in a totally different unit. It ends closer, so it's legit.

Don't get in base contact, kids - limits your options.

Nope. You have to move closer to the *Closest* enemy model. You can't move towards different targets unless that target is closer.

Though, keep in mind that you're not forced to move the closest route. All you have to do is finish your move closer to the closest enemy model. You can easilly run clockwise and get engaged in cc with another enemy squad if positioning allows. If used right, you can get engaged with stuff that's pretty far from the initial target. Cause you can actually move towards other squads with your charge (as long as it's still closer to the first target than it's been at start) and than pile in towards them. You can't strike secondary targets and they can strike you but they can't fire overwatch and are forced to retreat next turn. That's probably the only way you can deal with vehicle spam if you don't spam anti-vehicle weapons yourself.

What rules are you reading that allows you to move towards a different unit/model? The rules I read clearly state "this move can be in any direction so long as the model ends the move closer to the nearest enemy model."

Yes but if you kill the unit your fighting the closest unit it not one your fighting