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If a unit is charging a unit in a multi story ruin/building, does the vertical distance have to be counted for the purposes of the 2D6 charge roll?
What if the charging models can Fly?

Do pistols allow a unit to shoot into a Fight that it is not involved in? In other words, If I have a unit with pistols 6" from an enemy unit that is engaged with a separate friendly unit, can I shoot at that enemy unit with pistols?

Thank you!

0) Please title threads properly https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/533152.page You can edit titles after the fact for what it's worth

1) Yes, movement vertically has no special exemptions from the movement rules, thus you measure the true vertical distance in all case. (Page 3/Page 177)

2) Flying has no bearing in the case. In any case, models that can FLY don't have any special movement abilities when charging.

3) If they are somehow closer to that unit than the one they are presumably in base to base contact with, then sure. You have to shoot the closest unit with pistols if you're within 1" of an enemy. In 99.999...% of cases this is the unit you're fighting with. If you're talking about shooting pistols from an unrelated unit into an enemy unit that is within 1" of a friendly unit, the answer is no. The rules for pistols don't let you shoot into combat, they let models who are in combat shoot.

Thanks Bacon.

Added details to title.

2) Flying has no bearing in the case. In any case, models that can FLY don't have any special movement abilities when charging.

So "If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, it can move across models and terrain as if they were not there." only counts in the Movement phase, not in the Charge phase?

If they are somehow closer to that unit than the one they are presumably in base to base contact with, then sure. You have to shoot the closest unit with pistols if you're within 1" of an enemy. In 99.999...% of cases this is the unit you're fighting with. If you're talking about shooting pistols from an unrelated unit into an enemy unit that is within 1" of a friendly unit, the answer is no. The rules for pistols don't let you shoot into combat, they let models who are in combat shoot.

I meant thatif you have units like this:

A---6"---BC

Unit A is six inches from enemy unit B. Enemy unit B is within 1" of Friendly unit C.

Can unit A fire Pistols at unit C?

I know they would normally not be able to shoot at unit C with "normal" weapons, but a player in our group noted that Pistols state "In such circumstances, the model can shoot its Pistol even if other friendly units are within 1” of the same enemy unit.", while the rest of us were maintaining that "in such circumstances" meant that the unit engaged with the enemy could do that, not a separate unit outside of the combat just because they had pistols.

I think you just answered the above with the edit you made to your post:

The rules for pistols don't let you shoot into combat, they let models who are in combat shoot.

Thanks again.

 flakpanzer wrote:
So "If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, it can move across models and terrain as if they were not there." only counts in the Movement phase, not in the Charge phase?

Correct. That rule is only in the movement phase portion.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 flakpanzer wrote:
So "If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, it can move across models and terrain as if they were not there." only counts in the Movement phase, not in the Charge phase?

Correct. That rule is only in the movement phase portion.

I don't think this works. The rule that lets flyers ignore models and terrain when they move is in the same section as the rule saying that models can't generally move through models and terrain features. Surely either both or neither apply to moves in the charge phase. My reading is that the "Moving" section is trying to explain how all movement works, in any phase. Note that all of the other sections specify that they only apply in the Movement phase.

That said, it is not clear to me that flyers can ignore all vertical movement even in the movement phase. They can move "across" terrain as if it is not there, but if you want to take a flyer from table level to the top of a 10" building it seems to me that you've got to account for that 10" of vertical movement. But I'm not actually sure what's intended here.

Yeah I am disagreeing with the fly thing. Models with fly ignore other models and terrain any time they move regardless of phase. I also agree that they still need to measure vertical distance when landing on top of terrain.

I.E. A model with fly can "leap over buildings in a single bound!" landing on the other side by measuring only horizontal distance. But a unit with fly that tries to land on the 3rd floor would need to measure up the floors.

 Lance845 wrote:
Yeah I am disagreeing with the fly thing. Models with fly ignore other models and terrain any time they move regardless of phase. I also agree that they still need to measure vertical distance when landing on top of terrain.

I.E. A model with fly can "leap over buildings in a single bound!" landing on the other side by measuring only horizontal distance. But a unit with fly that tries to land on the 3rd floor would need to measure up the floors.

If that is the case, would you measure the horizontal distance, and then the vertical distance up, or would you measure the movement distance diagonally from starting position to the top of the building?

Last night, we had a an instance where a unit of Assault Marines with the FLY keyword were on a single story building. A unit of Plague Marines were on top of the second story of a building across about a 4" gap (so the Plague Marines were higher).

When measuring distance from base to base (which was a diagonal measurement), the models were within 12" so that a charge could be declared. The resulting charge, if on foot, would have meant the Assault Marines going down the single story building, across the gap, and then back up the two story building on which the Plague Marines were standing. Would having the FLY keyword mean they would only have to go across the gap and up the distance to get to the Plague Marines (ignoring going down the building they were on to get to ground level before crossing the gap and going up the building the Plague Marines were on)?

It became quite a discussion.

 flakpanzer wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Yeah I am disagreeing with the fly thing. Models with fly ignore other models and terrain any time they move regardless of phase. I also agree that they still need to measure vertical distance when landing on top of terrain.

I.E. A model with fly can "leap over buildings in a single bound!" landing on the other side by measuring only horizontal distance. But a unit with fly that tries to land on the 3rd floor would need to measure up the floors.

If that is the case, would you measure the horizontal distance, and then the vertical distance up, or would you measure the movement distance diagonally from starting position to the top of the building?

Last night, we had a an instance where a unit of Assault Marines with the FLY keyword were on a single story building. A unit of Plague Marines were on top of the second story of a building across about a 4" gap (so the Plague Marines were higher).

When measuring distance from base to base (which was a diagonal measurement), the models were within 12" so that a charge could be declared. The resulting charge, if on foot, would have meant the Assault Marines going down the single story building, across the gap, and then back up the two story building on which the Plague Marines were standing. Would having the FLY keyword mean they would only have to go across the gap and up the distance to get to the Plague Marines (ignoring going down the building they were on to get to ground level before crossing the gap and going up the building the Plague Marines were on)?

It became quite a discussion.

The rules have zero guidance on how vertical movement should be handled, rather than the fact that it is possible to move vertically to scale terrain. So this is the kind of thing you have to unfortunately discuss with your opponents ahead of time and decide how you think it should be played.