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Switching questions - ignore first response.

I am planning on having TL LasCannon razorbacks and trying to determine a good back up when I destroy vehicles and folks are walking.

Neither of these need LOS, which is great. But difference between 2D3 7 -1 D2 vs. 2D6 6 0 D1 has me thinking.

Most items riding in vehicles I am going to wound just fine with the S 6 Castellan and I have the potential to get at least 7 avg shots off.

The Vengeance hits harder but I'm only getting 4 avg shots off but -1 ap and D2 each.

Thoughts?

At minimum you must take what is specified on the datasheet. Most will say something like "This unit contains 5 ____, each equipped with a ____ and ____".

So in the case of DA, no.

One thing to consider for WYSIWYG is that it's not a choice any more, its different weapons. So if you modeled it with small missiles you get the Castellan Whirlwind, if you did the 4 big ones you have a Vengeance Whirlwind.

CovenantGuardian wrote:
So if you modeled it with small missiles you get the Castellan Whirlwind, if you did the 4 big ones you have a Vengeance Whirlwind.

Which, funnily enough, is the opposite of what they were before, isn't it?

And what if you still use 2nd ed Whirlwinds?

Its a question of weight of fire.

the strength doesn't matter as you will wounds anything that pops out of a transport on a 2-3 anyway with both of those weapons.

so it comes down to 2d6 or 2d3 with a -1 mod.

2d6 will net you about 7 shots on average
2d3 will net you something like 4 shots on average.

2D3 S7 -1 D2 will almost never be better than 2D6 S6 0 D1 unless :

- Shooting terminators, primaris, nobs, etc
- T6/7 vehicles

I use 2 castellans and 1 vengeance.

I am thinking the 2D6 is the better overall choice as well.

Depends on what else is in your list, do you need a tank/elite infantry killer or do you need a horde killer?

CovenantGuardian wrote:
One thing to consider for WYSIWYG is that it's not a choice any more, its different weapons. So if you modeled it with small missiles you get the Castellan Whirlwind, if you did the 4 big ones you have a Vengeance Whirlwind.

What do you mean it isn't a choice anymore?

Primary reason i like the 2d3 version is you as a marine should already have plenty of 1 damage anti infantry weapons all across your army.

2 damage anti elite is often hard to come by at range. usually only relegated to a bunch of plasma cannons or rifles at 24"

I am running TL LasCannon razorbacks, which is why I am considering the WW.

Desubot wrote:
Primary reason i like the 2d3 version is you as a marine should already have plenty of 1 damage anti infantry weapons all across your army.

2 damage anti elite is often hard to come by at range. usually only relegated to a bunch of plasma cannons or rifles at 24"

Eh... Nope. Vanilla marines have 39 separate ranged weapons capable of doing multi-wound damage. Granted too many are variations of plasmaguns, but still. This isn't an area that is lacking


Also, 2d6 averages 1.006 wounds on marine-likes. Against orks or guard it isn't much a contest.
2d3 averages .8712, even with the higher strength and save modifier. 4 (average number of shots), *.66(hits) *.5(wounds)*.5(saves) for .8712 getting through every step of attack resolution) Assuming the odds favor you and that does wound, yeah it turns into 2.
Against MEQ or t6 vehicles, you kinda just have to hope that a bunch of dice are kind and spit out two wounds at the end. Against most targets you'll simply do better by firing more shots.

Realistically, that's 100+ points to kill a single primaris marine per round or ding up a landspeeder a bit. Thats pretty woeful.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Depends on what else is in your list, do you need a tank/elite infantry killer or do you need a horde killer?

CovenantGuardian wrote:
One thing to consider for WYSIWYG is that it's not a choice any more, its different weapons. So if you modeled it with small missiles you get the Castellan Whirlwind, if you did the 4 big ones you have a Vengeance Whirlwind.

What do you mean it isn't a choice anymore?

I think in 4th edition, Castellan and Vengeance was no different than a laspred vs a autocannonpred, there is kits for both.

In 5th ed, it got changed to the same weapon but with different loadout you could switch each time you fired it like a frag/krak missile launcher, the different weapon kits seized to have a function beyond appearance.

Now in 8th ed it's back to different weapons again, so from WYSIWYG perspective it's not a choice if you already have it modeled. I have two whirlwinds, one of each type, so in a tournament that's what they are hence no choice.

Ah gotchya. I thought you meant WYSIWYG was now a mandatory rule in all games (which seemed a bit silly).