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OK, basic vanguard list..

5 wraithguard 200
5 wraith d scythes 225
5 wraithblades w axe 260 (I need to get some swords)
5 rangers 100
wave serpent, TL shuri, shuri 143
wave serpent, TL BL, shuricannon, CTM 164
wraithlord, BL, EML 148
wraithlord, glaive, shuricannon, 2 flamers 143

1383pts

HQ 1 Farseer, witchblade 113 (1496pts total)

HQ 2 Spiritseer 66, warlock, withcblade 37 (1486..enough points to add another vehicle upgrade on serpent or 2nd shuricannon on wraithlord)

HQ 3 Yvraine 132 (would need to drop 1 flamer from wraithlord)

I'm leaning to the Farseer being more useful with guide/Doom as Yvraine's word of phoenix only works really on the wraithguard, so not many options for soulburst.

Of course, I could probably drop the Rangers and go 2 HQ options.

Word of Phoenix works on any ynnari unit. Doesn't need sfd currently.
I'd personally try and fit both a farseer an yvraine in the list. And would 100% drop rangers to do it. Otherwise farseer would be first pick for doom.

I'd go Yvraine, need that WotP in any Ynnari list (that works on any Ynnari units, as mentioned).
I personally wouldn't drop rangers, reason is these guys can be nuts to snipe those Commisars vs the AM with tons of conscripts matchup.
You sure about wraithlords though? They are way less resilient than they used to be and enemy AT weapons will feast on them quite easily.

If I wanted to go fluffy, although not exactly a better option...

Farseer, WB 113
Prince Yriel 104
5 wraithguard 200
5 wraith d scythes 225
5 wraithblades w axe 260 (I need to get some swords)
wave serpent, TL shuri, shuri 143
wave serpent, TL BL, shuricannon, CTM 164
wraithlord, BL, EML 148
wraithlord, glaive, shuricannon, 2 flamers 143

I lose the Rangers, add Yriel

but that's 1500 on the nose.

I don't think Yriel gives me a better choice than Rangers though, although having the wraithblades and both wraithlords within 6" of him to reroll 1s to hit is quite nice, plus his ability to contribute to close combat...something the Farseer really cannot do well.

An Autarch will do the same 'reroll 1s' job as a spiritseer, for not much more, possibly with the benefit of being fast, with either Warp Gen or Swooping H. Wings.

The Spiritseer gives the h2h W-blades an extra attack with Embolden. The warlock does it cheaper, but without the reroll 1s.

Essentially, the HQ you want is what can fit into the list, at points you can shoe-horn in.

Rangers:
5 won't have lotsa impact on 5W characters. 10 rangers will.
Per salvo:
5 snipers - 3 will hit, 1.5 will wound. Likely, enemy saves that wound.
10 snipers - 7 will hit. 3.5 will wound (rounding up, I know). 1.5 wounds get through.

It'll take two salvos to possibly produce one Mortal Wound.

Overall, I don't see snipers as efficient, without further baby sitting by a farseer Dooming the target, plus having a reroll 1s autarch or having Guide.

 Brothererekose wrote:
An Autarch will do the same 'reroll 1s' job as a spiritseer, for not much more, possibly with the benefit of being fast, with either Warp Gen or Swooping H. Wings.

The Spiritseer gives the h2h W-blades an extra attack with Embolden. The warlock does it cheaper, but without the reroll 1s.

Essentially, the HQ you want is what can fit into the list, at points you can shoe-horn in.

.

the spiritseer is not the same as it's only rerolls of 1 vs enemies who are within 6" of spiritseer.

Also, Embolden does not add an attack, it adds 2 to your Ld, but gernerally wraiths don't need to worry too much about Ld as they are base Ld 9.

I personally think that a Spiritseer is a points effective HQ solution. They can augment you infantry with Conceal. If you're really hurting for points, a simple Warlock with Witchblade will do the same thing for 37 points. Can't go wrong with that!

LinkXx wrote:
I personally think that a Spiritseer is a points effective HQ solution. They can augment you infantry with Conceal. If you're really hurting for points, a simple Warlock with Witchblade will do the same thing for 37 points. Can't go wrong with that!

agree, I like the spiritseer and it is fluffy for the list, however, he would only be accompanying 1 unit of foot guard and conceal does not help wraithlords. I have points to spare rather than needing a cheap HQ. I'm torn between Yvraine and a Farseer. I think the Farseer matches my list better, and I feel that I will use Yvraine more in my mixed Ynnari list.

Beyond the Farseer, I'm now debating replacing the 5 Rangers with Prince Yriel to bolster the effectiveness of the wraithblades and wraithlords plus adding a decent combat presence. The spear of twilight is quite deadly, with Yriel hitting on 2's, rerolling 1s, wounding everything on 2s with a -2AP and D3 wounds per hit (from 4 attacks).

Have you considered the Wraithseer? It's done very well for me in games and adds another tough unit to the list. The psychic powers are subpar but you still get to deny the witch. If you like the Rangers and don't want to drop them, another option would be to go with a Spiritseer and Illic Nightspear. Having Illic add his attacks at the Rangers' target makes sniping characters more effective, and it gives you two units next to each other so that if your opponent kills the Rangers then Illic can soulburst.

 Oaka wrote:
Have you considered the Wraithseer? It's done very well for me in games and adds another tough unit to the list. The psychic powers are subpar but you still get to deny the witch. If you like the Rangers and don't want to drop them, another option would be to go with a Spiritseer and Illic Nightspear. Having Illic add his attacks at the Rangers' target makes sniping characters more effective, and it gives you two units next to each other so that if your opponent kills the Rangers then Illic can soulburst.

would be cool, but I have no idea where to find wraithseer rules (not buying a FW book for one unit), but I could easily convert a regular wraithlord to a seer.

Check your PM. I actually like running the Wraithseer instead of a squishy farseer or Yvraine in some lists, and you could likely get more mileage from the psychic buffs with your wraithguard units than I do with just wraithlords.

 Oaka wrote:
Check your PM. I actually like running the Wraithseer instead of a squishy farseer or Yvraine in some lists, and you could likely get more mileage from the psychic buffs with your wraithguard units than I do with just wraithlords.

Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bloodshade wrote:
I'd go Yvraine, need that WotP in any Ynnari list (that works on any Ynnari units, as mentioned).
I personally wouldn't drop rangers, reason is these guys can be nuts to snipe those Commisars vs the AM with tons of conscripts matchup.
You sure about wraithlords though? They are way less resilient than they used to be and enemy AT weapons will feast on them quite easily.

not now according to FAQ, only infantry, bikes and the Yncarne

I decided on the following list and will be playing it today. Not sure what my opponent will be using...DAs maybe but I suspect it will be some form of khorne army.

Farseer, witchblade 113
Prince Yriel 104

5 wraithguard 200
5 wraith d scythes 225
5 wraithblades w axe 260

wave serpent, TL shuri, shuri 143
wave serpent, TL BL, shuricannon, CTM 164

wraithlord, BL, EML 148
wraithlord, glaive, shuricannon, 2 flamers 143

Farseer will likely have Guide and Doom, although Fortune seems like a great power for wraith units, especially my axe/shield unit which already has a 3+/4+ invuln save T5 3W each, then add a 5+ additional save. Might actually be better than Guide in this case. This would be a good case to take Eldrad Ulthran as he knows all 3 of the Eldar powers.

Yriel will walk with the Blades to bolster them in combat plus be within 6" of the shooty wraithlord to allow rerolls of one for shooting.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
well, the Eldar won the game 17-5 in victory points after tabling the Deathwing player.

Fortune on the wraithblades was excellent. A unit of 5 took a charge from 5 deathwing knights, losing only 2 wounds total and killing 3 DW in return. Along with Yriel they wiped the rest out next turn. I definitely think Doom and Fortune are the way to go with this list.
I stripped a land raider down pretty quickly, my wraithlord knocking a lot off it in close combat, before it finally took the last wound with a flamer shot

Yriel was a great addition to the list.

I ended up losing the 5 d-scythe troops after they took out a DW sqd and several wounds off belial. I initially got 14 wounds on the sqd from the scythes, but he made 7 5+ invulns. I also lost the close combat wraithlord, but he took out the dreadnought and land raider before succumbing to belial in close combat. Definitely a beast.