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I'm finding battle cannons, while great, just don't cut it vs t8. Artillery is fine, but not nearly as effective on paper as triple lascannons and just doesn't put out enough damage vs high wound targets like knights and land raiders. What do you think? I think math hammer wise it comes out on top vs T8 targets but has anyone tried one out yet?

A twin lascannon is indeed much better than a battle cannon against T8 targets:

BS3 Battle Cannon vs. T8/3+: 1.166 damage/attack
BS3 Battle Cannon vs. T8/2+: 0.875 damage/attack
BS3 Twin Lascannon vs. T8/3+: 1.944 damage/attack
BS3 Twin Lascannon vs. T8/2+: 1.555 damage/attack

Leman Russ annihilators are decent lascannon platforms, being tough and relatively mobile. They are more specialised than battlecannons, and are therefore better at their job. They are also quite a bit more expensive.

I like battlecannons, not because they are especially great, but because they are what the fluff says they should be - cheap, and reasonably effective against any target. They manage to be a decent option for a Leman Russ's turret weapon.

The annihilator costs the same as the demolisher cannon, which is probably a better comparison. They basically do the same number of hits, and the demolisher's strength 10 isn't very significant over S9. Same AP. You basically trade the lascannons' range for the Demolisher's ability to switch to D3 shots when targeting big units.

A Malcador Annihilator with 5 lascannons is 108 points more than a triple-las LRA and gets 6 more wounds and is otherwise pretty much identical, save for having +1LD. I don't know if it's necessarily better per-point, but it seems like it'd be worth considering for sure.

A Vendetta can bring 6 lascannons for 230 points.

Kingsley wrote:A twin lascannon is indeed much better than a battle cannon against T8 targets:

BS3 Battle Cannon vs. T8/3+: 1.166 damage/attack
BS3 Battle Cannon vs. T8/2+: 0.875 damage/attack
BS3 Twin Lascannon vs. T8/3+: 1.944 damage/attack
BS3 Twin Lascannon vs. T8/2+: 1.555 damage/attack

Thanks for the math, I know it has been done by others in other threads, but thanks for doing it here.

Mandragola wrote:Leman Russ annihilators are decent lascannon platforms, being tough and relatively mobile. They are more specialised than battlecannons, and are therefore better at their job. They are also quite a bit more expensive.

I like battlecannons, not because they are especially great, but because they are what the fluff says they should be - cheap, and reasonably effective against any target. They manage to be a decent option for a Leman Russ's turret weapon.

The annihilator costs the same as the demolisher cannon, which is probably a better comparison. They basically do the same number of hits, and the demolisher's strength 10 isn't very significant over S9. Same AP. You basically trade the lascannons' range for the Demolisher's ability to switch to D3 shots when targeting big units.

Battle cannons are indeed great general purpose weapons, I really really like them. You're right that the comparison with the demolisher is more appropriate. In that comparison I think the Annihilator comes out very well, the extra range making a big difference, and the loss of one point of strength not much of an issue.

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:A Malcador Annihilator with 5 lascannons is 108 points more than a triple-las LRA and gets 6 more wounds and is otherwise pretty much identical, save for having +1LD. I don't know if it's necessarily better per-point, but it seems like it'd be worth considering for sure.

It does sound like a good deal points-wise, but applying Canadian dollars to forge world prices + shipping does not end well!

Mavnas wrote:A Vendetta can bring 6 lascannons for 230 points.

True, but they are hitting on 5s if you do any moving, and if you don't move they are fairly vulnerable, as T7 opens you up to be wounded on 3s by a lot of very high damage weapons.

Mavnas wrote:
A Vendetta can bring 6 lascannons for 230 points.

This. I am getting great success with a vendetta (holds 12bodies now) transporting a company commander, 2 melta command squads and an officer of the fleet. Or fill it with beefy bullgryns for nasty charges the turn they jump out since it grav shoots, and then moves towards the target and gets a nice short charge.

I like flying near a target, dropping my officer, and giving the vendetta a 3+ hit. This thing can roast a tank a turn. Drop those melta vets out with the commander and crush another tank. Still room for two models in there.

Have the rules for forgeworld conquer and vanquisher come out yet in imperial armor?

Yes. Of the ordinary tanks, the Annihilator is the best at killing enemy tanks,

Do vanquishers get beast hunter shells, if so how do they work now that there are no blast templates e.g. are they 3d6 or what

 sumi808 wrote:
Do vanquishers get beast hunter shells, if so how do they work now that there are no blast templates e.g. are they 3d6 or what

No.

 sumi808 wrote:
Have the rules for forgeworld conquer and vanquisher come out yet in imperial armor?

Conqueror is pretty awesome. It is basically a battlecannon with 48" range and a co-ax stormbolter which improves accuracy. It also comes with a 17pt discount. It is probably the best Russ just for the discount you get.

 Smotejob wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
A Vendetta can bring 6 lascannons for 230 points.

This. I am getting great success with a vendetta (holds 12bodies now) transporting a company commander, 2 melta command squads and an officer of the fleet. Or fill it with beefy bullgryns for nasty charges the turn they jump out since it grav shoots, and then moves towards the target and gets a nice short charge.

I like flying near a target, dropping my officer, and giving the vendetta a 3+ hit. This thing can roast a tank a turn. Drop those melta vets out with the commander and crush another tank. Still room for two models in there.

I really wanted to make Vendattas work since I own three. I don't have the FW book in front of me (just got it in the mail the other day and haven't had time to review it) but I thought they were a 4+ BS and if they move they become a 5+ BS. Please tell me I've completely misread the rules on flyers :(

 necron99 wrote:

 Smotejob wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
A Vendetta can bring 6 lascannons for 230 points.

This. I am getting great success with a vendetta (holds 12bodies now) transporting a company commander, 2 melta command squads and an officer of the fleet. Or fill it with beefy bullgryns for nasty charges the turn they jump out since it grav shoots, and then moves towards the target and gets a nice short charge.

I like flying near a target, dropping my officer, and giving the vendetta a 3+ hit. This thing can roast a tank a turn. Drop those melta vets out with the commander and crush another tank. Still room for two models in there.

I really wanted to make Vendattas work since I own three. I don't have the FW book in front of me (just got it in the mail the other day and haven't had time to review it) but I thought they were a 4+ BS and if they move they become a 5+ BS. Please tell me I've completely misread the rules on flyers :(

Unfortunately you read correctly.

I've only tried the Vendetta in one game but I was disappointed with it's damage output, as I expected I would be. Hitting on 5s really kills the damage output. It also died extremely quickly because it can't hide anywhere and attracts a lot of fire. It's even worse if you sit in hover mode to try and leverage BS4+.

I think the real question of long range anti tank in terms of armour available to us is between these options:

-Leman Russ Annihilator - It's able to take orders, can fire 3 lascannons, but may not be the most ideal platform for lascannons. Should come in around 192 points at the cheapest.

-Malcador Annihilator- can carry 5 lascannons, has 6 more wounds but is unable to take orders. It's over a hundred points more than an annihilator with 5 lascannons.

-Allying in a predator annihilator. This may be the most cost efficient method and most effective.

I haven't math-hammered any of this - what do you all think is the best option / are these necessarily competitive.

Vendetta+ skyshield landing pad + techpriest(s)

stationary vendetta regening 2d3 (or more) wounds each turn and diching out 6 bf4 shots.

is expensive, but could be used to draw a lot of fire power.

I still have to test this build

 necron99 wrote:

 Smotejob wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
A Vendetta can bring 6 lascannons for 230 points.

This. I am getting great success with a vendetta (holds 12bodies now) transporting a company commander, 2 melta command squads and an officer of the fleet. Or fill it with beefy bullgryns for nasty charges the turn they jump out since it grav shoots, and then moves towards the target and gets a nice short charge.

I like flying near a target, dropping my officer, and giving the vendetta a 3+ hit. This thing can roast a tank a turn. Drop those melta vets out with the commander and crush another tank. Still room for two models in there.

I really wanted to make Vendattas work since I own three. I don't have the FW book in front of me (just got it in the mail the other day and haven't had time to review it) but I thought they were a 4+ BS and if they move they become a 5+ BS. Please tell me I've completely misread the rules on flyers :(

Yes, but vendetta has a hover mode. Don't move it. One toughness lower but two wounds higher.

I'm struggling to find a reason to take a Russ, to be honest.

I finally got to play a game with the Annihilator and it far exceeded my expectations, I gave it 2 multimeltas. My first shot from 3 lascannons put 11 wounds on an Immolator, destroying it instantly. It also did what I needed it to do vs knights, wounding them on 3s makes all the difference in the world compared to the battle cannon. I know it's only 1 game, but it crushed every vehicle it shot at. I will definitely be fielding it again.