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Do we keep this thread in addition to the general Tactica Tyranids? |
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No |
 
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Total Votes : 73 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 12:05:36
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Dakka Veteran
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Niiai wrote:But do the mines that miss really deny that much movement? Most armies have small arms fire, they can just pop them or walk around then. You make a 3" cicle they have to avoid, that is it.
The cost of that wounds is also ver high. One model deals and averadge 0,5 wounds each round. That is very expensive compared to other units, most notably the hive guard.
There is even another thread in the forum here under general. An Ork player (I guess) is seeking for help against Biovores. What he says that his opponent is usually blocking his Battle Wagons with Spore mines. Because you can just put them on the edges of the front of the Wagon and he cannot go through the mines any more, because he has to stay 1" away during movement.
Of course he can try to go around, but it will be a long circle he has to take.
Or what about you want to block a certain way for a unit, because your own unit would get a charge otherwise?
Hive Guard: They are better damage dealers against light targets, but against T8 things they are not that good. Against an Imperial Knight 3 with Impalers deal 1.33*D3 damage. Against Magnus and such they are even worse. They are also more expensive, since you can buy 4 Biovores for the price of 3 Hive Guard.
And as I suggested the Hive Guard are a serious competitor, but they serve a bit different purpose. They cannot do all of the movement shenanigans at all additionally.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 12:43:08
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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OK, I am convinced.
But it seems like you need at least 3 or them, probably 6 so that you can make some wounds and drop some spores. You need a lot of them if you want to down something from the get go, but it sounds like the disruption is better then the actual damage, although the utilaty of both is good.
Are regular spore mines good under the same logic?
Or the harpy?
Speaking of them, are there any easy way to convert biovores?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/10 12:50:33
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 12:57:37
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Dakka Veteran
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shogun wrote: Niiai wrote:But do the mines that miss really deny that much movement? Most armies have small arms fire, they can just pop them or walk around then. You make a 3" cicle they have to avoid, that is it.
The cost of that wounds is also ver high. One model deals and averadge 0,5 wounds each round. That is very expensive compared to other units, most notably the hive guard.
Mine 27 biovores really deny a lot of movement (see picture below). I like it when my tyranid army can go; 'you know what, I'am just going to shoot for a few turns before I deepstrike the rest' I combine them with devourer gaunts to make sure I got enough anti-infantry also.
What the heck did you make those out of?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 13:23:38
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Dakka Veteran
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Niiai wrote:OK, I am convinced.
But it seems like you need at least 3 or them, probably 6 so that you can make some wounds and drop some spores. You need a lot of them if you want to down something from the get go, but it sounds like the disruption is better then the actual damage, although the utilaty of both is good.
Are regular spore mines good under the same logic?
Or the harpy?
Speaking of them, are there any easy way to convert biovores?
Regular spore mines have to stay away from enemy units pretty far. So they are not as usefull but also quite cheap to fill fast attack slots, if you want to go for a brigade.
The Harpy is in its own right quite nice. However it is not really an auto-include in any way. It can be nice as a cheap AT plattform, to stub vehicles in melee and to drop mortal wounds on characters.
Converting Biovores has been covered in some threads here in the forum. I think the easiest way is to use Hive Guard and just glue their guns on the back.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 13:37:38
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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Niiai wrote:Q1: Does 9 warriors justefy a prime?
Q2: Venom cannons or stranglethorn cannons? Spinefist, devourer or what's-it's-name as regular guns?
Personally for me. Warriors work best out of a Tyrannocyte (just a little bit more expensive than a prime) - and unfortunately you can not get a prime in there. However - If you are going to walk a big unit of warriros up the feild a prime is totally worth it.
I likem best with death-spitters. They also really need catalyst so best to not take another unit that needs it as well if using them. Automatically Appended Next Post: TBH the standard Venom cannon is trash.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/10 13:39:50
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 13:44:39
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Dakka Veteran
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Xenomancers wrote: Niiai wrote:Q1: Does 9 warriors justefy a prime?
Q2: Venom cannons or stranglethorn cannons? Spinefist, devourer or what's-it's-name as regular guns?
Personally for me. Warriors work best out of a Tyrannocyte (just a little bit more expensive than a prime) - and unfortunately you can not get a prime in there. However - If you are going to walk a big unit of warriros up the feild a prime is totally worth it.
I likem best with death-spitters. They also really need catalyst so best to not take another unit that needs it as well if using them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
TBH the standard Venom cannon is trash.
Do you find the the synapse of the Warriors to be this important or why don't you use Raveners for the deep striking thing? I would prefer Raveners under most circumstances tbh.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 14:04:20
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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Astmeister wrote: Xenomancers wrote: Niiai wrote:Q1: Does 9 warriors justefy a prime?
Q2: Venom cannons or stranglethorn cannons? Spinefist, devourer or what's-it's-name as regular guns?
Personally for me. Warriors work best out of a Tyrannocyte (just a little bit more expensive than a prime) - and unfortunately you can not get a prime in there. However - If you are going to walk a big unit of warriros up the feild a prime is totally worth it.
I likem best with death-spitters. They also really need catalyst so best to not take another unit that needs it as well if using them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
TBH the standard Venom cannon is trash.
Do you find the the synapse of the Warriors to be this important or why don't you use Raveners for the deep striking thing? I would prefer Raveners under most circumstances tbh.
The biggest drawback of raveners is the 5+ save. The 4+ save gives you reasonable suriviability even in the open vs a lot of weapons. Put them in cover and they aren't going anywhere for a while without some heavy fire power - and if they are drawing heavy fire they are doing their job IMO.
Also yes - I totally utilizer the synapse function of warriors - it allows me to use my flying hives (I usually have at least 2) to ether go aggressive on a flank away from my stealers and terms - or move to an objective without abandoning my gaunts.
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If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 14:10:09
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Dakka Veteran
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Interesting. I see the point. Just for the synapse you could of course also use the Trygon Prime. But I agree that 9 Warriors in the backfield of the enemy can be potentially nice.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Walking Hive Tyrant:
I have a weakness for them, as you can see at my avatar. Normally he did not do anything spectacular, but was at some point beating the crap out of some units.
So I would also play him in the following configuration:
Hive Tyrant
Heavy Venom Cannon, MRC, Adrenalin Glands, Toxin Sacs
3x Tyrant Guards
RC+ST, Adrenalin Glands
That is of course a rather silly HQ + Elite choice, but I am casual gamer anyway and hope to ping some wounds off a tank with the HVC.
I am currently thinking of even adding 1-3 Carnifexes with ST and HVC to have a ridiculous AT shooting base. LOL
Any thoughts on that except "Astmeister you are an idiot!"?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/10 14:34:14
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 14:51:09
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Tunneling Trygon
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It's just very inefficient. Hive guard do the same job much better for fewer points, as does the exocrine of course and even biovores will do more wounds for less points.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 16:07:17
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Dakka Veteran
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When i will lose i can at least say that it was the Tyrants fault. ;-)
Besides the HVC could do 9 damage in one round of shooting and i will be the king.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 16:23:11
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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Tyrant is the best place in the ermy for the heavy venom cannon. I think it is good with a backup of other ranged weapons. Let it rip with the cannon. If you get lucky and do a lot of wounds you can down something with the backup of the other ranged weapons.
The tyrant is good. Good in mellee. Shoots. Has 2 psykick powers. Seems neat. No idea for the cost to benefit ratio.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 16:46:55
Subject: Re:Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Elite Tyranid Warrior
Pennsylvania
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Astmeister wrote: Battlesong wrote:Can I get some advice from my Hive Fleet brethren. I have a very bizarre collection of Tyranid models and was wondering what you guys think my next few purchases should be to get to a semi-competitive level. Not in a NOVA/Gencon way but more local tourney wise. One caveat, no FW models.....no way I can afford that stuff. What I have:
2 Hive Tyrants One wit LW/ BS and HVC, one with wings, but no other arms attached yet
1 Tervigon w/Crushing Claws
1 Broodlord
10 Warriors, various loadouts
34 Genestealers
41 Hormagaunts
25 Termagants, some w/devourers, but I don't remember how many
29 Gargoyles
1 Lictor (usually use as Deathleaper)
3 Zoanthropes
1 Biovore w/2 mines
1 Trygon
4 Carnifexes, 1 w/dual ST, 1 w/ ST and Crushing Claws, 1 w/Claws and HVC, and 1 with 2 devourers and 2 open arm slots
As you can see, it's pretty much all over the place. Any advice is appreciated!
I think you can make a good TAC list with that. It will not win tournaments, but perform well enough in casual games.
Exocrines are big winners in 8th edition. You should buy want of those. The amount of food walking stuff also points in the direction of a unit of venomthropes.
Thanks for the advice. I just look to have a chance to win. I think I'm going to the FLGS tonight for the first time in about 3 years, so I'll get to see where the meta there is at. I was thinking an Exocrine as well, but I also had Hive Guard on my mind. Thanks for the advice!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 16:53:10
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Dakka Veteran
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Hive guard is also very good in most lists.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 16:57:36
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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I don't see the hype behind the exocrine. It basically can't move. If you move it you are losing you lose half your shots and 2 bs and only has 36" range.
In a gun line army I think this could work okay but as nids - it's never going to be in range of anything they don't want you shooting. It's really not hard to kill ether. If it's your main source of shooting count it dead turn 1.
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If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 16:57:58
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Been Around the Block
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Walking Hive Tyrant becomes a Support multipurpose unit. Totally need some Tyrant guard with him.
He's inefficient of course, but does not suck. ....which for us casual players is all we want - a unit to not suck! Lol.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 17:35:23
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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If I was walking down the road of a tyrant I would take the swarm lord, because he unlocks neat things for your army. So much things you can use him for. While he has no ranged attacks he does have 2 pshykick powers.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 18:03:41
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Dakka Veteran
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I don't play special characters in general.
The exocrine is very good i think. It is very unlikely that you will have nothing in range of it. If it shots double, it is one of the best guns in the entire game.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 18:20:26
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Someone asked how to convert Biovores? Its the same fella in this thread who has a gak ton who said you convert them by buying Hive Guard and putting the cannon on the back and a little extra work voila.
I'm sure it was him, either way its a good idea. Because whilst not expensive at 25 quid a model, 33 for 3 is way better.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 18:33:58
Subject: Re:Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Dakka Veteran
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I have borrowed a mathhammer weapon stats sheet from www.3plusplus.net and updated it with some Tyranids weapons. There might be some mistakes but you can take a look at it, if you want. It's in Excel and all kudos go to the guys at www.3plusplus.net for creating the sheet.
Filename |
Weapon Maths Master - lookup fixed.xlsx |
Download
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Description |
Weapon Maths Master Excel |
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311 Kbytes
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/10 18:39:26
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 19:06:26
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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Astmeister wrote:I don't play special characters in general.
The exocrine is very good i think. It is very unlikely that you will have nothing in range of it. If it shots double, it is one of the best guns in the entire game.
Nah - I don't think it's even close to the best weapon in the game for the price - I'd take a quad las pred over it any day of the week. That's not even a very good tank ether. Consider a tau broadside puts out 8 str 7 ap -2 D3 damage shots and 8 str 5 ap -1 shots at 30-36 - plus it can be upgraded to shoot on the move - It also costs less than the exocrine. I think the only reason this thing gets any consideration because it's in the nid codex. Automatically Appended Next Post: Astmeister wrote:I have borrowed a mathhammer weapon stats sheet from www.3plusplus.net and updated it with some Tyranids weapons. There might be some mistakes but you can take a look at it, if you want. It's in Excel and all kudos go to the guys at www.3plusplus.net for creating the sheet.
Ehh - this gives you some indication as to how much damage a weapon can do - but whats more important is damage per point on the model. In stationary mode it's certainly a good weapon and a pretty versatile one BUT it's damage per point is nothing special being 216 points.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/10 19:28:23
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 19:44:11
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Dakka Veteran
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Xenomancers wrote: Astmeister wrote:I don't play special characters in general.
The exocrine is very good i think. It is very unlikely that you will have nothing in range of it. If it shots double, it is one of the best guns in the entire game.
Nah - I don't think it's even close to the best weapon in the game for the price - I'd take a quad las pred over it any day of the week. That's not even a very good tank ether. Consider a tau broadside puts out 8 str 7 ap -2 D3 damage shots and 8 str 5 ap -1 shots at 30-36 - plus it can be upgraded to shoot on the move - It also costs less than the exocrine. I think the only reason this thing gets any consideration because it's in the nid codex.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Astmeister wrote:I have borrowed a mathhammer weapon stats sheet from www.3plusplus.net and updated it with some Tyranids weapons. There might be some mistakes but you can take a look at it, if you want. It's in Excel and all kudos go to the guys at www.3plusplus.net for creating the sheet.
Ehh - this gives you some indication as to how much damage a weapon can do - but whats more important is damage per point on the model. In stationary mode it's certainly a good weapon and a pretty versatile one BUT it's damage per point is nothing special being 216 points.
I don't see how the Broadside weapons should be better than the Exocrines. The 12 shots with DS-3 and 2 Damage are well worth the points.
I also just included the Weapon lookup table, so that everyone can benefit from it. It was not for the purpose of promoting the Exocrine.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 20:21:18
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Astmeister, given you started this thread, if you are willing I'll set up a format similar to the fella who started that other thread with the unit summaries for the OP and send it to you for each individual unit summary. What do you think? He had the best idea...then he was gone! "Unyielding Hunger"
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 20:22:34
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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An expected amount of wounds from a shot is very good while playing. You can make educated guesses with it.
From a list building standpoint you need to know averadge wounds per point paid for the unit.
From a truly comprehensive xl sheet there should be a way to calculate the survivabilaty of the unit as well.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 20:54:15
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Dakka Veteran
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Jaq Draco lives wrote:Astmeister, given you started this thread, if you are willing I'll set up a format similar to the fella who started that other thread with the unit summaries for the OP and send it to you for each individual unit summary. What do you think? He had the best idea...then he was gone! "Unyielding Hunger"
If you mean that I should copy my "reviews" in the thread than I can surely do that. But beware of the fact that I am a casual gamer after all.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 21:11:25
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Regular Dakkanaut
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seems like damn good advice so far, and the format he came up with, spoilers and summaries was boss.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/10 23:16:04
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Tunneling Trygon
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Xenomancers wrote:I don't see the hype behind the exocrine. It basically can't move. If you move it you are losing you lose half your shots and 2 bs and only has 36" range.
In a gun line army I think this could work okay but as nids - it's never going to be in range of anything they don't want you shooting. It's really not hard to kill ether. If it's your main source of shooting count it dead turn 1.
36" is a lot more range than you think. Set up a central fire base and go to town. T8 is great for durability and he has a ton of wounds. It's not the BEST shooting in the game, but it is unprecedented levels of good shooting for Tyranids, and more than a few other armies would definitely like to have this statline as annadsdition to their arsenal. But yeah if you move it more than once a game...something has gone wrong
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/11 01:57:13
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Regular Dakkanaut
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luke1705 wrote: Xenomancers wrote:I don't see the hype behind the exocrine. It basically can't move. If you move it you are losing you lose half your shots and 2 bs and only has 36" range.
In a gun line army I think this could work okay but as nids - it's never going to be in range of anything they don't want you shooting. It's really not hard to kill ether. If it's your main source of shooting count it dead turn 1.
36" is a lot more range than you think. Set up a central fire base and go to town. T8 is great for durability and he has a ton of wounds. It's not the BEST shooting in the game, but it is unprecedented levels of good shooting for Tyranids, and more than a few other armies would definitely like to have this statline as annadsdition to their arsenal. But yeah if you move it more than once a game...something has gone wrong
I've seen a couple of lascannons ruin an exocrine in short order, that deployment line which is basically hammer and anvil but with a point makes exocrines useless.
I still consider exocrines amazing but 36 hurts against a gunline, it might even be fatal. Situationally they are rubbish unless they have support with a list in that situation.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/11 02:00:36
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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What do people use for synapse?
What do people think of 3 warriors with double scything tallons for 60 points?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/11 02:14:04
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I run a pair of Exocrine and they have always done well for me. If they are drawing a lot of fire, then that means the rest of my army is relatively safe. I run two units of 3 man warriors, two units of 3 man units of Hive Guard. and a crap ton of Termagaunts and Gargoyles along with the ever present Genestealers, Swarmlord, and Trigon Prime.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/07/11 02:19:22
Subject: Hive Fleet Tyranids Tactica
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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Niiai wrote:Tyrant is the best place in the ermy for the heavy venom cannon. I think it is good with a backup of other ranged weapons. Let it rip with the cannon. If you get lucky and do a lot of wounds you can down something with the backup of the other ranged weapons.
For more points it does less damage than the Deathspitter. If you are using it as artillery its wasted points for obvious reasons, so since you are advancing, the reasons to pick HVC over Deathspitters are very few.
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P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. |
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