Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Assuming broadsides aren't overcosted in this edition (and they may well be), I had a few thoughts about broadsides.

Railguns are finally good(ish) with their d6 wounds and all, but just like in 7th, I find myself eyeing that missile spam- high-yield missile pod, smart missiles; at two apiece that's eight s7 shots with d3 wounds, and 8 s5 shots that ignore cover bonuses. The only real downside is the mediocre BS and the equally mediocre markerlights making hits harder.

My thoughts are two:

A target lock. This would allow the broadside to move and fire normally, making it WAY different from before, able to move around the battlefield. Of particular note is the idea of sticking it behind the corner of a building if your opponent has the first turn, then popping out with your missiles once he's done, or just using it to catch up with units that moved out of its range/reposition to catch units out of sight.

Secondly, EWO. It's both better and worse than before. Worse, because it is a 12' range now, rather than the full range of its weapons. Better, because the wording doesn't specify that you can't shoot the next turn- in essence it's a free round of shooting, but in most cases this would just translate to making any teleporting assault units really wary of ending up anywhere inside a 12' bubble of your broadside, which could potentially be really useful.

Personally I lean more toward the target lock; the ability to hide your artillery and then move it forward and fire as normal feels really tempting. Thoughts?

Personally I think broadsides are bad. That said, these are my thoughts on support systems for them.

Both the options you suggest have merit. They aren't the only good things though.

Missile drones actually seem reasonably efficient. It therefore makes sense to have a broadside with a dc. Maybe stick a dc on a rail rifle guy.

I think the ATS is an excellent choice for a broadside with HYMP and SMS. Adding -1AP to 16 shots makes it a lot scarier.

So I think maybe the way I'd set up broadsides would be to have two guys with HYMP and ATS, then one guy with rail rifle and DC.

You could also/instead have some marker drones around. They could benefit from the dc, tank hits for the broadsides, and potentially light things up enough to let the broadsides move and shoot.

-1 AP is a good choice indeed for a missileside, I'll be sure to keep that in mind. Some drones should be good too, if only to soak up some wounds- people *really* seem to hone in on the broadsides.

Why would you say they are bad? The cost?

Well, they are pretty overcosted now. 1 Commander with 4xMP will do most of a HYMP job for 2/3 of its price. However, It's not the point of the thread - so, moving on...

I'd say EWO is mostly better in a Stormsurge; HYMP need ATS, in my view. As EWO is only 12" now, filling your zone with models are a better proposition (especially drones nearby the Broadies).

HRR could get a Target Lock to be mobile or a Velocity Tracker to take down aircraft (but that might be better in a Commander or, again, Stormsurge).
I don't think EWO is good at all on a Broadie - 2 HHR shots won't make it against whatever comes nearby your units.
Drone Controller can be another option

I personally get a squad of 2 XV88 with Railrifles and SMS.
the equipment is 2 Velocity Trackers to get that juicy BS 2+ against flyers.
But both ATS and EWO are good options.
If I have Stealthsuits or Ghostkeels I usually dont take EWO, because my enemy simply will not be able to DS close enough.

I like the EWO the least because of it's 12'' range.
In most cases the enemy will simply DS somewhere else so the EWO just denies a landing zone. Something other units can do as well.

I agree that Broadsides are prohibitively costed at the moment. they need a solid 40-50pt decrease to be worthwhile. In any event, HYMP Broadisdes would get ATS in my army every time. that's a whoe lot of extra pain for 8pts. Railsides...I'd probably do a target lock. Mobility is a big deal, and keeping your big, expensive suit out of harm's way is really important.

HYMP is pretty pointless when other's are doing a better job with the same guy for cheaper

That leaves us with Railsides which are still uniquely useful

Luckily Railsides don't really need ATS so they don't mind carrying EWO.
VT a nice option, and VT affects the squad. Meaning technically you could get multiple Broadsides in a Squad, but then we are talking about an explosion in costs.

 Talamare wrote:
HYMP is pretty pointless when other's are doing a better job with the same guy for cheaper

That leaves us with Railsides which are still uniquely useful

Luckily Railsides don't really need ATS so they don't mind carrying EWO.
VT a nice option, and VT affects the squad. Meaning technically you could get multiple Broadsides in a Squad, but then we are talking about an explosion in costs.

Given that a missileside is good at dealing with infantry (SMS) and monsters/medium tanks (HYMP), which units do this better?

Oh, forgot that Ghostkeels are good EWO platforms as well

Aeri wrote:I personally get a squad of 2 XV88 with Railrifles and SMS.
the equipment is 2 Velocity Trackers to get that juicy BS 2+ against flyers.

Might remember you that 1 VT is enough for the entire squad, so one of the XV88s can carry a different support system

with 1 VT you only get BS 3+
With 2 you get 2+ ;-)

Aeri wrote:
with 1 VT you only get BS 3+
With 2 you get 2+ ;-)

Nope. The new FAQs state that bonuses don't stack with themselves. Stuff like VTs and DCs don't stack.

That said, there's definitely a case for putting a VT on one member of a railside squad. You could have a DC on one, a VT on another, and I'm not sure what on the third. TL, shield generator, and various other options exist.

I tend to agree that missilesides lose out to commanders with missile pods, except that those commanders will tend not to have an ATS - and definitely won't have 2 SMSs. So there's a vague case for bringing missilesides still.

They do just need quite a big drop in points though - I think. Maybe they cost this much because drones are really good at keeping them alive, so they keep firing all game. But ultimately it feels like you're paying more than the cost of a predator for less than half its firepower and toughness. It doesn't feel like a good deal.

i believe they had good reason to price broadsides so high.

ATS on a HRR broadside ignores all armor for the most part; no armor can stop a HRR with ATS, especially now it is two shots. Seriously, one salvo from them could punch through

While with HYMP, the shear amount of shots coming from a single model at high amor pen and strength...

If they didn't have such a high price tag every tau army would have 3 rail sides on overwatch with 3 missile sides in front of them with a commander with a drone controller between them controlling missile drones, waving his hands as he conducts an orchestra of doom

For the moment I'm digging O'Railai a lot. He can dink something valuable from a distance with his hIgh density sabot that is assault 2, strength 9. And if a vehicle is stupid enough to get close to him, his emp rounds can throw 4 mortal wounds on it before even rolling for damage. That's assuming there are any vehicles left with XV109s summer salting around like fething leprechauns of the apocalypse

ATS on HRR is essentially overkill

HYMP is basically overcosted

HYMPsides are basically garbage, ESPECIALLY if you use SMS
A Monat can do what it does but better, cheaper, tankier, and more mobile. The only unique thing that HYMPsides can do is be a decent source of EWO. Which I would bet that a Monat could still do a better job at it.

Also SMS are overcosted. SMS on a Broadside is only ever worth it if you're using ATS. Otherwise an SMS isn't very efficient. If you're using ATS on a Broadside tho, then again... Monat does it better.

To recap...
Broadsides are about 30-40 points overpriced.
If they were 20 points cheaper then we could start talking about seriously using them in builds. At their current status, only Railsides are close to being viable. That is only because Tau has issues with finding truly heavy weapons.

HRR + Plasma + EWO is probably your best option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SevenSeasOfRhye wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
HYMP is pretty pointless when other's are doing a better job with the same guy for cheaper

That leaves us with Railsides which are still uniquely useful

Luckily Railsides don't really need ATS so they don't mind carrying EWO.
VT a nice option, and VT affects the squad. Meaning technically you could get multiple Broadsides in a Squad, but then we are talking about an explosion in costs.

Given that a missileside is good at dealing with infantry (SMS) and monsters/medium tanks (HYMP), which units do this better?

Given that HYMP+SMS costs 210? points...
A lot of stuff does it better for a cumulative 210 points.

The hell is a "Monat"?

 SevenSeasOfRhye wrote:
The hell is a "Monat"?

'Monat' is a Tau term used for a Crisis unit survivor that doesn't want to join another group of Crisis. He/she keeps operating alone until he/she dies.
In game terms, is fielding a lone Crisis model (with/out drones). It was quite useful in 7th, but now Crisis units are forced to field at least 3 models.
With the new FAQ, you can have one understrength unit of 1 Crisis, if you don't have enough models to field a 3-man one and not paying the full price of the unit - thus bringing back the idea of Monat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ravenor890 wrote:

For the moment I'm digging O'Railai a lot. He can dink something valuable from a distance with his hIgh density sabot that is assault 2, strength 9. And if a vehicle is stupid enough to get close to him, his emp rounds can throw 4 mortal wounds on it before even rolling for damage. That's assuming there are any vehicles left with XV109s summer salting around like fething leprechauns of the apocalypse

Sadly, that's not what his rules say. It only lets you roll a D6 if targeting a vehicle and, on a 3+, deal a mortal wound in addition. It's not 1 die per attack.
It should be similar to DE Scourge's haywire blaster ability (on each 4+ to wound vs vehicles, target suffers a MW; on each 6+; D3 MWs)

 SevenSeasOfRhye wrote:
The hell is a "Monat"?

Commander Suit