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Well, 8th edition fixed most of the major issues with Orks, so I think my greenskins will go back to battle.
Enough with collecting dust!

I've been toying with the new Index and I'd like to try a list with lots of Weirdboyz to spam the Smite psychic power over the enemy.
Triggering D3 mortal wounds sounds nice, and it can go up to D6 using Boyz as mana buff. So I want to field as much Weirdos as possible.

So, 'ere's my EDITED list.

Smity Pantz [2000]
9 CP

Finalized version

Smity Pantz ver. 3.0 [2000]
9 CP

COMMAND DETACHMENT I
HQ
1x Weirdboy Da Jump 62
1x Weirdboy Da Jump 62
1x Weirdboy Warpath 62
1x Weirdboy 'Eadbanger 62

COMMAND DETACHMENT II
HQ
1x Weirdboy Da Jump 62
1x Weirdboy Da Jump 62
1x Weirdboy Warpath 62
1x Weirdboy 'Eadbanger 62

BATTALION DETACHMENT
HQ
1x Weirdboy Da Jump 62
1x KFF Warbike PK Kombi-Skorcha 145

Troops
30x Boyz inc. BC Nob 189
30x Boyz inc. BC Nob 189
29x Boyz inc. BC Nob 183

Heavy Support
1x Squiggoth 195
1x Squiggoth 195

VANGUARD DETACHMENT
HQ
1x Snikrot 69

Elites
5x Kommandos inc. 2 Burna & BC Nob 54
5x Kommandos inc. 2 Burna & BC Nob 54
5x Kommandos inc. 2 Burna & BC Nob 54
1x Warbike Painboy 115

Total: 2000 points

Each Big Trakk embarks 4x Weirdboy with Smite.
All Boyz + Da Jump under the KFF bubbles, all Kommandos in "reserve".

Turn 1: Big Trakks full speed ahead, Da Jump 30xBoyz, sneak all Kommandos, then charge as much as possible (using CP if necessary).
Turn 2: All Weirdboyz jump out of their vehicles and benefit from the second Da Jump Boyz to easily deal D6 mortal wounds each.
Turn 3: Same old, same old.

So, what do you think? Would you recommend another transport vehicle for Weirdboyz?
I was thinking about Squiggoths, slower but a tad cheaper, and maybe more resilient and fluffy.

I was under the impression that every unit placed in reserve is still counted towards drops.

Don't have it in front of me, but I also believe the VSG had some unfavorable adjustments with the new FAQ.

The weirdboy smite spam can fall apart quickly if you can't keep them 6" away from each other and they start dying to perils.

Bigdoza wrote:
Don't have it in front of me, but I also believe the VSG had some unfavorable adjustments with the new FAQ.

Oh thanks about VSG adjustment, I've just read that. Huge nerf, I'll drop it. That's fine with me, I'll throw a couple of KFF Big Meks instead.

Bigdoza wrote:
I was under the impression that every unit placed in reserve is still counted towards drops..

If units placed in reserve count as drops, maybe I could opt for a couple of 10-boy Kommando units + Snikrot (up to 10). Maybe?

Bigdoza wrote:
The weirdboy smite spam can fall apart quickly if you can't keep them 6" away from each other and they start dying to perils.

If I read the rulez correctly, nothing prevents you from spreading them all once they have disembarked (and they can advance if needed). 18" remains a good range.
At least on the first turn they can Smite D6 wounds, then depending on the situation, either risk another mana boost, go into cover, charge, etc.
Plus, they remain quite deadly in close combat with three S7 attacks (AP-1 D3). And you can go full risk and deal enemy units within 6" an extra D3 mortal wounds from peril!

Second version

COMMAND DETACHMENT I
QG
1x Weirdboy Smite 62
1x Weirdboy Smite 62
1x Weirdboy Smite 62
1x Weirdboy Smite 62

COMMAND DETACHMENT II
QG
1x Weirdboy Smite 62
1x Weirdboy Smite 62
1x Weirdboy Smite 62
1x Weirdboy Smite 62

BATTALION DETACHMENT
QG
1x Weirdboy Da Jump 62
1x KFF Big Mek 75
1x KFF Big Mek 75

Troupes
30x Boyz inc. 2 BS 192
30x Boyz inc. 2 BS 192
30x Boyz inc. 2 BS 192

Soutien
1x Big Trakk Full Skorcha 231
1x Big Trakk Full Skorcha 231

VANGUARD DETACHMENT
QG
1x Snikrot 69

Elites
5x Kommandos w. Burnaz 45
5x Kommandos w. Burnaz 45
5x Kommandos w. Burnaz 45
5x Kommandos w. Burnaz 45

Total: 1995

1) All weirdboyz must select a power that is not smite. They get smite for free.

2) You really need a painboy for such a list. The painboy can heal the perilled weirdboyz.

3) I count eleven drops. Besides, even if you go first, your opponent has a 30% chance of stealing the initiative with a cp reroll.

4) Big choppas on all the Nobz

5) Trukks will probably be fine as transports

6) Why a voidshield generator and not a big Mek with a force field? Or just 30 more boyz?

7) Orks don't use CPs for charge rolls.

You definitely won't be getting first turn with that list.

However, the large number of single model units is going to be a real pain for your opponant who'll have to really think about their split fire. It could definitely work, the only problem I forsee is if you come up against Knight armies or Dread armies which will only really be that effected by the weirdboyz. Then again, you'd probably win on objectives. Go ahead, seems like a fun list that with some crafty tactics on your behalf could be a real pain for a lot of armies.

The biggest issue with spreading the weirdboyz out so they dont kill each other is that smite can only target the nearest visible enemy.

If you go too wide can be tough to get them all hitting the same nearest.

pismakron wrote:
1) All weirdboyz must select a power that is not smite. They get smite for free.
2) You really need a painboy for such a list. The painboy can heal the perilled weirdboyz.
3) I count eleven drops. Besides, even if you go first, your opponent has a 30% chance of stealing the initiative with a cp reroll.
4) Big choppas on all the Nobz
5) Trukks will probably be fine as transports
6) Why a voidshield generator and not a big Mek with a force field? Or just 30 more boyz?
7) Orks don't use CPs for charge rolls.

1) That's all the better, so I'll be able to chose to cast either Warpath or Da Jump.
2) Painboyz come with extra cost, but if that works against mortal wounds, I might consider that too (especially with all those boyz).
3) Thanks for the clarification - so KFF Big Meks are the way to go (even more important than Painboyz?).
4) There is no Nob in this list. All Weirdboyz have a staff with similar damage in close combat.
5) 250-point units embarked in Trukks is even more risky but debatable Big Trakks throw 2D6+4D3 hits at short distance and have +5 wounds (+riggers).
6) I'll update the first post, already dropped the VSG for KFF.
7) You can use one CP for a failed charge roll (e.g. when you get ) since it's capital for my boyz to lock enemy units in close combat.

 mrhappyface wrote:
You definitely won't be getting first turn with that list.

However, the large number of single model units is going to be a real pain for your opponant who'll have to really think about their split fire. It could definitely work, the only problem I forsee is if you come up against Knight armies or Dread armies which will only really be that effected by the weirdboyz. Then again, you'd probably win on objectives. Go ahead, seems like a fun list that with some crafty tactics on your behalf could be a real pain for a lot of armies.

Hey, thanks! Yes, it's a fun list which could prove effective. Ah, I was a bit too confident regarding drops but that means Da Jump at the very end to control objectives. Dread/Knigtht armies are powerful but now boyz can deal damage even to high-toughness units - though mainly, Weirdboyz should get the work done (especially against IK, my boyz would die by tens). Again, CP reroll for bad D6 mortal wounds can change everything!

Bigdoza wrote:
The biggest issue with spreading the weirdboyz out so they dont kill each other is that smite can only target the nearest visible enemy.

If you go too wide can be tough to get them all hitting the same nearest.

I see what you mean. I can't say before I playtest this build. If Big Trakks are not taken down Turn 1, they advance 15" to 20". That's a good starting point to spread the weirdo threat. With Kommandos and 30-boy squads coming from nowhere, it should be possible to disrupt enemy tactics. But I agree, it would take a few games to know how to handle it correctly and see if it works good, great, or not at all

 Bonzofever wrote:

1) That's all the better, so I'll be able to chose to cast either Warpath or Da Jump.
2) Painboyz come with extra cost, but if that works against mortal wounds, I might consider that too (especially with all those boyz).
3) Thanks for the clarification - so KFF Big Meks are the way to go (even more important than Painboyz?).
4) There is no Nob in this list. All Weirdboyz have a staff with similar damage in close combat.
5) 250-point units embarked in Trukks is even more risky but debatable Big Trakks throw 2D6+4D3 hits at short distance and have +5 wounds (+riggers).
6) I'll update the first post, already dropped the VSG for KFF.
7) You can use one CP for a failed charge roll (e.g. when you get ) since it's capital for my boyz to lock enemy units in close combat.

2) A painboy will save a mortal wound on a 6+, and can heal one character for D3 wounds every turn.
3) You can go with or without both a painboy and mek and just take more boyz. There is something to be said for both approaches.
4) All boyz squads gets a free boss nob. And a nine point big choppa for the boss nob is definately worth it.
5) They will disembark quickly enough. You cannot cast psychic powers, project a forcefield, or heal wounds when embarked inside a vehicle. The mek cannot even repair the vehicle he is riding in, he has to get out.
7) All ork infantry and bikers can reroll all failed charge rolls at no cost. You can opt to reroll either one die or both.

pismakron wrote:
2) A painboy will save a mortal wound on a 6+, and can heal one character for D3 wounds every turn.
3) You can go with or without both a painboy and mek and just take more boyz. There is something to be said for both approaches.
4) All boyz squads gets a free boss nob. And a nine point big choppa for the boss nob is definately worth it.
5) They will disembark quickly enough. You cannot cast psychic powers, project a forcefield, or heal wounds when embarked inside a vehicle. The mek cannot even repair the vehicle he is riding in, he has to get out.
7) All ork infantry and bikers can reroll all failed charge rolls at no cost. You can opt to reroll either one die or both.

2) Yes, that's definitely interesting (although he needs to be 3" away from the Weirdboy to heal).
3) Sure - but tremendous firepower (even with low AP) can finish off entire squads easily. Decisions, decisions.
4) No way?! The Index was not clear about that, I hope you're right. Anyhow, sure, big choppas are the way to go, indeed. Is it the same for Kommandos??
5) Yes, as I understood from the rulebook, that's why I aim at a turn-2 Smite spam with loads of boyz to buff the mana.
7) I thought the reroll was only for both dice, are you sure about this? Talking about bikers, maybe I could use Painboys and Big Meks on bike (larger effect aura, more flexible/resilient).

Thanks again, mate! I think I'll ditch both supa-skorchas for big choppa nobz. And maybe opt for Squiggoths instead of Big Trakks!

I thought we re-roll both dice for 'ere we go?

But on topic, I think the weird boy spam is an ok idea (maybe better than just ok even), but I would consider using shoota boyz for these mobs because more than half of the charges will fail.

This math is if we re-roll both dice for a 9" charge. Check for accuracy:

Chance for Initial Success + Chance for Second Success

[ 6|6, 5|6, 6|5, 6|4, 4|6, 5|5, 6|3, 3|6, 4|5, 5|4 ] = 10 ways of success at 9"

[10/36] + [(26/36)*(10/36)] =47.8%

There is no consensus for reroll on ere we go. It can go either way. There is a YMDC thread and good points are brought up on each side. Its been put on the next faq list. I'd suspect its BOTH dice.

First: In the main rules regarding re-rolls it is stated that "you get to roll some or all of the dice again."
So yes, you can just re-roll 1 charge dice as part of 'Ere we go.
CP's only allow you to re-roll a single die.
I think there is merit in for using CP's for charge distance... Say you roll a 4 and a 3 for charge distance. Using 'Ere we go you re-roll the 3 and get another 4. You could then use a CP to re-roll your original dice roll of a 4 in hopes of getting a 5 or 6.
However, I think CP's would be better being used to either re-roll perils wounds or Psychic dice to avoid perils altogether. (You can re-roll a successful die roll.) So say you get a perils because you roll a 12+, you could re-roll 1 dice to attempt to avoid the peril, and still pass the psychic test.
Painboy needs to be within 1" to heal a model

2jollyrogers wrote:
First: In the main rules regarding re-rolls it is stated that "you get to roll some or all of the dice again."
So yes, you can just re-roll 1 charge dice as part of 'Ere we go.

I see the confusion here. I would agree with you. Page 178 BRB upper left corner under heading "Rerolls"

2jollyrogers wrote:

Painboy needs to be within 1" to heal a model

3" per index xenos 2 page 19 unless there's a FAQ I don't know about.

Back to thread. I have to think about the math some more to see how to calculate the odds for ere we go if you can re-roll one OR both dice. I would ASSUME that this would increase likelihood of success but this is more a black jack type of probability question since there are decisions to be made. Which I am NOT good at. Decisions that is.... well, and math.

 doktor_g wrote:
3" per index xenos 2 page 19 unless there's a FAQ I don't know about.

Back to thread. I have to think about the math some more to see how to calculate the odds for ere we go if you can re-roll one OR both dice. I would ASSUME that this would increase likelihood of success but this is more a black jack type of probability question since there are decisions to be made. Which I am NOT good at. Decisions that is.... well, and math.

Actually, it's 1" for healing D3 wounds and 3" to benefit from ex-FNP, I think...

Could anyone confirm Boss Nobz come free for every type of unit?
This would be great (I assumed it was 17 points since there was no cost entry in the Index).
But sounds too good to be true...

Waiting for the confirmation. In the meantime, here's the list with Squiggoths and a few nice people on warbikes:

COMMAND DETACHMENT I
HQ
1x Weirdboy Da Jump 62
1x Weirdboy Warpath 62
1x Weirdboy 'Eadbanger 62
1x Weirdboy 'Eadbanger 62

COMMAND DETACHMENT II
HQ
1x Weirdboy Da Jump 62
1x Weirdboy Warpath 62
1x Weirdboy 'Eadbanger 62
1x Weirdboy 'Eadbanger 62

BATTALION DETACHMENT
HQ
1x Weirdboy Da Jump 62
1x KFF Warbike Mek BC 110
1x KFF Warbike Mek BC 110

Troops
30x Boyz inc. BC Nob 189
30x Boyz inc. BC Nob 189
21x Boyz inc. BC Nob 135

Heavy Support
1x Squiggoth 190
1x Squiggoth 190

VANGUARD DETACHMENT
HQ
1x Snikrot 69

Elites
5x Kommandos w. Burnaz & BC Nob 54
5x Kommandos w. Burnaz 45
5x Kommandos w. Burnaz 45
1x Warbike Painboy 115

The whole army (except Kommandos) has KFF 5++ save at the beginning - and the Big Meks can then move fast if needed.
The Painboy can give the "FNP rule" to Squiggoths and can heal one of them, which is nice. And move fast if needed (along with Squiggoth/Weirdboyz).
There are lots of S7 models. If Boss Nobz are free for Kommandos, might consider adding Big Choppas too. However, 20 Boyz for the third unit is already less impressive!

Boss Nobz - battlescribe has them costing nothing. I think wording in the codex as 'replace' rather than 'upgrade' is how they decided.

Nobz cost zero.

So i got on the weird boy bandwagon, but now Im off. Realized in matched play, you can only manifest a psychic power once per turn except smite so no multi Jumps. Source: "Psychic Focus" in matched play section. Tough break. Back to drawing board for me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And your squugoth is priced wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Only 2 burnas per kommando squad but free nob with them and Stormboyz too.

Thanks for the confirmation. As far as I'm concerned, it's the lack of Boss Nob entry in the Orks Points Values that I find the most troubling.

 doktor_g wrote:
So i got on the weird boy bandwagon, but now Im off. Realized in matched play, you can only manifest a psychic power once per turn except smite so no multi Jumps. Source: "Psychic Focus" in matched play section. Tough break. Back to drawing board for me.

Hence the Smite spam list. And the multiple Kommando units. And the bikes. Etc.

 doktor_g wrote:
And your squugoth is priced wrong.

Oh - yes, 190 points each. Don't know why I added those 5 points, meh. Thanks for spotting this!

 doktor_g wrote:
Only 2 burnas per kommando squad but free nob with them and Stormboyz too.

Alright, so for 90 points you have a 5-man unit with free nob and burnaz (two indeed). Sounds like points well spent to harass the enemy!

Battle scribe has squigoth at 209.

Smite spam sounds good. I am just so weirdly (pun intended) biased against ork psychers.

And regarding burna i think BScribe has those at 9pts. So no point premium maybe. I'll PM you my list so mot to hijack your thread.

You are pricing your kommandos to high i think. My BAO list in bound...

 doktor_g wrote:
Battle scribe has squigoth at 209.

Smite spam sounds good. I am just so weirdly (pun intended) biased against ork psychers.

And regarding burna i think BScribe has those at 9pts. So no point premium maybe. I'll PM you my list so mot to hijack your thread.

You are pricing your kommandos to high i think. My BAO list in bound...

Maybe Battlescribe uses former Codex, I think you should not rely on what's there.

1/ My Imperial Armour digital copy states otherwise regarding Squiggoth. 190 pts + gorin' horns 5 pts = 195 points.
2/ 40K Index Xenos states Burna costs 0 point in the Values page. So it's a (welcome) free upgrade for Kommandos.

I'm pretty sure GW will soon bump the cost of Boss Nobz and Burnaz. Or maybe the new Codex will.

Also, I've checked the area covered by a KFF Big Mek on warbike and it's pretty amazing. No need for a second KFF, actually.
I might need to update the list again, this time with 3x30 Boyz (1 or 2 squad of shootas) and BC Nobz for all Kommando units. Maybe a second Painboy, too?

Squiggoth is 195
190 + 5 for the Gorin' Horns.

For some reason Battlescribe doesn't include those +5 points, and forces you to buy a Big Gun which should be optional. Hence why it shows 205 (190 + 15 for kannon).

Don't rely on Battlescribe..

 grendel083 wrote:
Squiggoth is 195
190 + 5 for the Gorin' Horns.

For some reason Battlescribe doesn't include those +5 points, and forces you to buy a Big Gun which should be optional. Hence why it shows 205 (190 + 15 for kannon).

Don't rely on Battlescribe..

Yes, that's what I figured

FYI I think I have the final version of the list. Second KFF Mek was ditched.

Smity Pantz ver. 3.0 [2000]
9 CP

COMMAND DETACHMENT I
HQ
1x Weirdboy Da Jump 62
1x Weirdboy Da Jump 62
1x Weirdboy Warpath 62
1x Weirdboy 'Eadbanger 62

COMMAND DETACHMENT II
HQ
1x Weirdboy Da Jump 62
1x Weirdboy Da Jump 62
1x Weirdboy Warpath 62
1x Weirdboy 'Eadbanger 62

BATTALION DETACHMENT
HQ
1x Weirdboy Da Jump 62
1x KFF Warbike PK Kombi-Skorcha 145

Troops
30x Boyz inc. BC Nob 189
30x Boyz inc. BC Nob 189
29x Boyz inc. BC Nob 183

Heavy Support
1x Squiggoth 195
1x Squiggoth 195

VANGUARD DETACHMENT
HQ
1x Snikrot 69

Elites
5x Kommandos inc. 2 Burna & BC Nob 54
5x Kommandos inc. 2 Burna & BC Nob 54
5x Kommandos inc. 2 Burna & BC Nob 54
1x Warbike Painboy 115

TOTAL: 2000 points

A whole lot S7 models in here (9 Weirdboyz, 6 Nobz, 2 Squiggoths) + a couple S10 (Big Mek, Painboy) and Snikrot has S6.
Downsides: no rokkits or big shootas for the boyz, and Painboy can't heal Squiggoths - whereas Meks could repair vehicles.
Maybe Big Trakks would be the way to go... only with less skorchas (sad face).

I should be able to playtest this list next week.

Anyway thanks for your comments, guys!

For 90 points you would have 7 regular Kommandos, 2 Kommandos with Burnas, and a Kommando Boss Nob.

As to the Weirdboys spam, after playing a couple games with 4 Weirdboys today, I will say that I liked it a lot.
2 weirdboyz had Warpath and 2 had Da Jump.
I did back them up with 2 pain boys, to heal.
I did have a perils of the warp, that hurt, but a few well placed re-rolls using command points helped mitigate perils.

Having alternate Weirdboys scatterd allowed a good amount of flexibility for both of my chosen disciplines. But smite was also a great weapon against deep strikers on my flanks. Each time I was able to max out smite with a 10+ because of surrounding Ork units and do D6 mortal wounds. In some cases I was at +5 to my warp checks.

I also used 2 full 15 man units of Kommandos and Snikrot for flank attacks, supported by a 30 man mob of boyz via Da Jump.

2jollyrogers wrote:
For 90 points you would have 7 regular Kommandos, 2 Kommandos with Burnas, and a Kommando Boss Nob.

Yep. Although I'd rather use smaller units at the moment: more Burnaz, more Big Choppas, and they might be able to benefit from Mob Rule to count as "fearless".
In my list they are expendable, but I see what you're aiming at.

2jollyrogers wrote:
As to the Weirdboys spam, after playing a couple games with 4 Weirdboys today, I will say that I liked it a lot.
2 weirdboyz had Warpath and 2 had Da Jump.
I did back them up with 2 pain boys, to heal.
I did have a perils of the warp, that hurt, but a few well placed re-rolls using command points helped mitigate perils.

Having alternate Weirdboys scatterd allowed a good amount of flexibility for both of my chosen disciplines. But smite was also a great weapon against deep strikers on my flanks. Each time I was able to max out smite with a 10+ because of surrounding Ork units and do D6 mortal wounds. In some cases I was at +5 to my warp checks.

I also used 2 full 15 man units of Kommandos and Snikrot for flank attacks, supported by a 30 man mob of boyz via Da Jump.

That's great to hear! Yes, deep striking and flanking units or flyers sound like perfect targets for Smite in such lists.

So your build was pretty similar. When I play a few games I'll see if the 5-man Kommando unit is worh it - or if I should change it.
Seems to me that the small unit option is great to counter vehicles like Manticores, and 10-15 boyz enough to wipe out a small enemy squad (snipers, heavy guns...).

On a side note: coupled with Da Jump, 'Eadbanger can be useful against low-toughness characters. But maybe I should only favor Warpath.
As for the boyz equipment, I'll go with 30x Shootaboyz as the first Da Jump. Second unit to Da Jump (30x Slugga) could benefit from Warpath and have 5 attacks per model...

I was thinking of playing a list like this:

But I would never take eadbanger and I would never rely on smite to save the day. It just happens to be great in conjunction with a list of footslogging infantry using da jump, and the other ork area effect units.

I've been a fan of the bubble effects in general, and 9 weird boyz seems like a lot to ultimately own. There are, however, great age of sigmar models to make a 6 weirdboy list.

6 weirdboyz, warboss, KFF mek, 2 painboyz, 2 runtherdz, waagh banner nob, 120boyz and nobz with PKs, 30-40 grots, 3x5 stormboyz with pk nobz, and 5 kommandos with pk nob, + 3 traktor kannonz... and it's pretty variable, ultimately, but I would rather see more boyz, and although I'm not fixated on the idea of having 3 heavy supports (it is shown in this example because a battalion seems like the quickest way to get CP)
I actually like 5 kommando teams with 2 BS. An easy way to place a unit in cover to harass, grab an objective or deny an area. I feel like kommandos are flexible enough to be used to absorb overwatch, disable enemy backfielders or be placed on the board for a more extended time. Yes the burna is free but I don't think kommandos even use it to great effect. *Although mob up could change that?

MSU stormboy units also extremely good, as are 30 boy blobs of stormboyz: because they're 8 pts and they can assault fliers, they can also help you overwhelm and outmaneuver your opponent, nough said.

and I think that a warboss grants a far greater ability to get the horde moving. It's not just about creating the ability to make a 9 inch charge, but the ability to shift the entire horde, as one large block, toward a position where massive and endless charging is triggered.
Painboyz do give more mileage to the smite firing, Da Jump/Warpath casting weirdboyz, and they are also working to keep da boyz alive. The waaagh banner just stacks nicely with that, and between stormboyz kommandos and da jump there are plenty of ways to get ork mobs big or small into that 9 inch charge range fast - however you want to balance it.

But I think having a few options for getting there fast, or shifting the overall motion of your army it still depends on having a boss: allowing you to have the move advance charge tempo. That's what wins it for infantry. I'm happy if smite is going off during the psychic phase and cooking anything that boys can't overwhelm.

90 boys is just too few at 2000 pts to think that you're going to get past turn 2. Your plan was Turn 1, turn 2, and turn 3 etc... but if the game goes to turn 6 and you're losing big chunks of boys every turn, are you really going to make it?
I like grots to boost the model count, but they would probably work best on a greater scale ~90 with 2 runtherds.

In the newest chapter approved the PK has become 13 points, greatly benefiting the painboy which was previously burdened with a piece of equipment that wasn't doing him much good.
Having a warbike for the painboy is so costly that, compared to the newly cheapened foot painboy I think I prefer just slogging along.

Matched play is 3 detachments max I think

BAN wrote:
Matched play is 3 detachments max I think

Indeed