8 editions later AM Stand and Shoot

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**pinoy**

Hello everyone,

I was thinking about dusting off my IG, excuse me AM for 8th edition. I have been watching plenty of 8th edition battle reports online. Yup, AM still just stand and shoot. Sometimes they move farther back and shoot before they get charged. Seriously, watch a battle report on youtube. 95% of the armies just stand and shoot. It seems like it is the only way to be effective or competitive. Why bother moving when your only real strength is to just to hold the line and fire. I thought about coming back to 40k but now I am having doubts. I like AM but I am tired of having to stand and shoot against even a half-competitive army. Any ideas or disagreements?

**Skinnereal**

IG have a lot if static artillery-type units, and infantry like hiding in cover.
They don't have a lot of hand-to-hand units, and prefer to shoot instead.

But, Scions and such are not stand-and-shoot. They don't use artillery, have better skills and kit. They can deep-strike.
Hellhound type tanks are fast and short ranged, to get up close.
Also, the LRBT and variants can have flamers fitted all around, and some of the turret weapons are short ranged.
I have not looked at their rules, but Rough Riders and Sentinels might be used to outflank, to give the SandS units support.

**Terminal**

Well, IG/AM have never been that mobile. That's one of their main shticks - shoot, shoot, and shoot some more, primarily from afar, where their frail human bodies won't get hacked apart in combat. And where the artillery is most effective.

If you're looking for a shooty AND mobile army, you could try Tau, Eldar, or maybe Sisters.

But the Guard still have ways to be more mobile. You can still take a bunch of Chimeras, Valkyries, Hellhounds, and 'deep striking' Scions.

**Otto von Bludd**

I know what you mean about seeing this all the time in bat reps, but it is a product of the list and not the army. You can field a very effective and very mobile IG force such as the one I'm building. All infantry rides in Chimeras, accompanied by outflanking Rough Riders, Hellhounds, Scouting Sentinels, Gunships overhead, Scion paratroopers and Leman Russ support (which are very mobile now and even GOOD at being mobile thanks to their special rule). Focus on Flamers meltas and shotguns and put that mobility to good use. It's a very fun way to play compared to an incredibly boring (for me) gun line.

**Daedalus81**

Mark another opinion down to list building.

Rough Riders
Priests to add attacks in melee
Bullgryns
Sentinel Powerlifters

I think the problem is that none of this still war particularly good in the past and so no one bought the models. It will take a while for different builds to percolate to the top.

**BaconCatBug**

I know right? Like, it's totally unfair I can't just stand and shoot with my Genestealers. 8th edition is poopy!

**Trickstick**

It's pretty boring to stand and shoot. However, I feel that infantry have been made easier to use in an advancing style in 8th. Now that spacing is not an issue with blasts, moving a block of models is much quicker. I keep meaning to try my old advancing conscripts and russes style once I get playing again.

**Inquisitor Lord Katherine**

Well, yeah. Long WWI-style trench lines are sort of our thing. Standing and shooting is our specialty.

**Kommissar Kel**

Some of it might also be hold-over play styles. I am making some movement trays for my guardsmen so I can move them easily and quickly(also my green tide). Since I don't have to worry about blast/template spacing and we can move-and-fire everything now.

**the_scotsman**

pinoy wrote:
Hello everyone,

I was thinking about dusting off my IG, excuse me AM for 8th edition. I have been watching plenty of 8th edition battle reports online. Yup, AM still just stand and shoot. Sometimes they move farther back and shoot before they get charged. Seriously, watch a battle report on youtube. 95% of the armies just stand and shoot. It seems like it is the only way to be effective or competitive. Why bother moving when your only real strength is to just to hold the line and fire. I thought about coming back to 40k but now I am having doubts. I like AM but I am tired of having to stand and shoot against even a half-competitive army. Any ideas or disagreements?

Not the way I play 'em. My most recent favorite strategy involves taking a unit of Bullgryns, a Ministorum Priest, and Iron Hand Straken and sticking them into a vendetta. I position them for the assault turn 1, then turn 2 outflank 4 units of rough riders right next to them for the grand charge (The squad on board the vendetta generally decides "Screw parachutes" and just disembarks the transport normally so they don't have to be 9" away). The Priest and Straken grant the rough riders 2 additional attacks each, giving them three lance attacks per man plus the chainsword and hilarious hooves attack. Watching an entire Daemon battle line get absolutely rocked by rambos riding velociraptors has been one of the funniest things I've seen in the entirety of 8th so far.

We live in a world where the best leman russ variant around is a punisher with triple heavy flamers, where Hellhounds are baller and where conscript battle lines can charge across the battlefield in a living wave. If you don't want to stand and shoot, there's no rule saying you have to!

**vipoid**

Well, I think part of it is that vehicles now suffer a -1 penalty to shoot if they move. And since most IG vehicles are only hitting on 4s to begin with that penalty really does hurt. What's more, the Chimera has been made drastically more expensive (along with its weapons), in spite of both the aforementioned penalty *and* the Multilaser being hit hard by 8th's wounding system.

That said, I think infantry outside of transports have actually gotten more mobile. -1 to-hit for moving heavy weapons is much better than in the last edition, when they had to snapshot. What's more, there are now two movement-related orders to either help men get into position or else help them fire after Advancing. Then you have the pinpoint deep striking on Scions - which lets them drop right into the enemy backfield.

You can also freely add units from other Imperium armies into IG (so you're no longer stuck with their poor excuses for assault units).

What's more, surely it depends on how you build your army? I mean, if you don't like the 'sit back and shoot' tactic, you could make an army that had no heavy weapons at all - and which instead advances a load of infantry/veterans with plasma and flamers at the enemy, whilst landing Scions to encircle them.

**chrispy1991**

I'm a huge fan of the combined arms approach that 8th ed has made very possible. This is just a rough outline without points, but here's an example of a 2000 point list I use:

BRIGADE DETACHMENT
14 Total Command points! (3base+9 from detachment+2from Creed)

HQ

Yarrick
Creed
3XTempestor Primes
Lord Commissar

TROOPS
3X Infantry Squads
3X Plasma Scions Squads

ELITES
3X Plasma Scion Command Squads
2X Vet Squads with lascannon teams
Culexus Assassin

FAST ATTACK
3X Hellhounds

HEAVY SUPPORT
3X Basilisks
Manticore

At least half this list is made up of highly mobile units that don't just "stand and shoot". I recommend making good use of Scions, as even with the command squad FAQ, you can see how easy it is to use lots of them and cause a REAL headache for your opponent.

As others have stated too, take lots of flamers. I know they're expensive now, but keep in mind that flamers don't care about -1 to hit form moving because they auto hit!

**Galas**

Yeah, Imperial Guard gunlines are like the... most significant way to play the army.
But they are one of the biggest versatile lists out there. Yeah, they can't go to fight in meele, but they can with Scions, Hellhounds, etc... have a much more movile shooting army at short range.