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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Ouze wrote:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
The real issue is that the west knows very little about what it might be facing in NK, though if you think that their military technology is backward, you're probably wrong.


While I agree with the sentiment, lets not go too far in the other direction. During the last exchange of artillery fire North Korea engaged in, they fired 170 shells. Only 80 hit the island they were aiming at, and of those, 20 of those didn't detonate.

60 still detonated...

Extrapolate that to the feth ton of artilleries... that's a lotta on-target hits.

:shudders:

I can't fathom a solution out of this...

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

 whembly wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
The real issue is that the west knows very little about what it might be facing in NK, though if you think that their military technology is backward, you're probably wrong.


While I agree with the sentiment, lets not go too far in the other direction. During the last exchange of artillery fire North Korea engaged in, they fired 170 shells. Only 80 hit the island they were aiming at, and of those, 20 of those didn't detonate.

60 still detonated...

Extrapolate that to the feth ton of artilleries... that's a lotta on-target hits.

:shudders:

I can't fathom a solution out of this...


It's because their isn't one. A pretty one at least.

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 JimOnMars wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
People keep glossing over the THEY HAVE NUKES thing.

Not yet deliverable...probably.


Do you really want to throw the dice on this?


Absolutely.

Why?

We throw the same dice no matter what we do, except that slow pressure, of any kind, gives NK more time to make the decision. If NK will not go down without nuking somebody, then they are nuked. Period. 100% chance of death.

NK is unstable and could nuke anybody anytime for any reason. The ONLY hope we have is to try to bomb them before they can launch. Otherwise Seoul is nuked, or Japan, or the US.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

Interesting read...

Spoiler:
Trump Has 6 Options to Neutralize North Korea—but None Are Good
The carrot and the stick approach clearly failed

By Austin Bay • 07/11/17 6:30am

We don’t hear mere saber rattling on the Korean peninsula. Sabers are local, short-range weapons. The dreadful noise in east Asia is something far more potent: the provocative July 4 blast of a North Korean missile capable of striking North America.


South Korea’s Sunshine Policy to coax North Korea to end its nuclear quest? The Clinton Administration’s Agreed Framework of economic carrots and heavy oil to encourage regime moderation? Two decades (or more) of rational U.S. appeals to China to help curb the noxious Kim regime’s pursuit of nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles and to help terminate Pyongyang’s cyclic bouts of military attacks on South Korea?

These soft power gambits may have thrilled the editorial board of The New York Times, but they didn’t stop North Korea’s dictatorship. The Kim regime now has an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) in its arsenal—one that threatens Anchorage, Alaska, and perhaps Pearl Harbor, Hawaii.
Eight years ago, on July 4, 2009, North Korea conducted a missile test. July 4 launches are clearly messages to America.

Alaska and Hawaii are minimalist interpretations of the 2017 missile’s range. Other experts fear the ICBM, a Hwasong-14, can reach the Canadian and U.S. west coasts.

Parts of Alaska (western Aleutians) have been within range of North Korean missiles for several years. So has Guam. There is an ongoing debate about the Taepodong-2 ballistic missile that was test-fired in February 2016. It may have had the range to hit northern California.

The July 4 launch doesn’t mean the North Koreans can handle operational targeting; it doesn’t mean they can mount an operational nuclear warhead on a missile; it doesn’t mean they have a warhead that can re-enter the atmosphere without breaking apart; it doesn’t mean they can detonate a warhead that can reach its target. It does, however, show they are hell bent on acquiring these capabilities and their accelerated development program is succeeding.

For the moment, the heat from North Korea’s intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) test remains rhetorical and its fallout political. However, Pyongyang’s nuclear weapons program will eventually produce nuclear warheads for its boosters.

For almost four decades, the Kim dynasty in Pyongyang has promised to build nuclear weapons and ICBMs. Now the dictatorship’s dream is a real world nightmare.

Since the 1990s, there have been three general options for halting North Korea’s nuclear weapons program: enforce stiff economic and political sanctions to isolate the regime; follow a “wait and see” political and military strategy played with cautious economic carrots and sticks; and conduct a pre-emptive air or missile strike on North Korean nuclear research and development sites, weapons stores, missile and air bases, and command and control facilities.

Here are the current options for the U.S. to neutralize the Hermit Kingdom’s threat. Each entails grave risks.

1.) Yet another “do the right thing” bid to Beijing. China has vulnerabilities. China’s imperial territorial expansion in the South China Sea has produced adversarial reactions. China’s other borders are anything but problem-free, and Beijing’s bullying has intensified several disputes.

Chinese jockeying failed to shake the new government of South Korean President Moon Jae-in and force the withdrawal of a U.S. Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) anti-ballistic missile (ABM) battery deployed in South Korea.

China threatened South Korean companies. It curtailed travel and cultural contacts. It threatened Seoul with political reprisals.

The THAAD tantrum failed, and China is still processing that failure. Moon was pegged as a “peace candidate” of the timorous political stripe Beijing and Pyongyang might manipulate. He performed a brief “review” of the THAAD deployment (which he promised he would do during his campaign), but after his meeting with President Donald Trump, he declared “a unified front” against Pyongyang’s nuclear and missile programs.

South Korea knows THAAD provides protection. Japan also knows U.S. anti-ballistic missiles (ABM) provide protection.

Beijing has not yet adapted to South Korea’s and Japan’s new resolve. Moon is positioned to help Beijing adapt to 2017’s new reality and encourage China to finally squeeze the nukes out of the North.

Eighty-five percent of North Korea’s international trade is with China. North Korea’s miserable economy depends on China.

Some North Korean defectors argue tough sanctions—meaning an embargo and blockade with China participating—could cripple the Kim regime.

In April, Trump tweeted “a trade deal with the U.S. will be far better if they (China) solve the North Korean problem!” An economic payoff? Yes, but better than a shooting war.

2.) Coercive diplomacy directed at China. In March, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said “strategic patience” with North Korea was over and done.

Eventually strategic patience with Chinese posturing will also end.

China is attempting to portray itself as “the global adult” in the Trump Era and as the “go to nation” for the next Davos. However, backing North Korea utterly exposes this Chinese narrative as the sham it is. In February, Kim Jon Un’s assassins murdered his half-brother, Kim Jong Nam. The killers smeared him with a liquid nerve poison, persistent VX. In a missile warhead, VX is a weapon of mass destruction. Assassination as a geo-political advertisement that North Korea is an outlaw regime is an action no responsible nation would permit.

So coercive diplomacy starts with an information campaign challenging China’s pose.

It gets uglier. In the U.S.-China relationship, trade politics and geo-politics intersect. Business isn’t simply business when the promise of wealth keeps China’s Communist Party in power. The United States has the economic power to damage China. Trump knows it and so does Beijing. Trump has already talked trade barriers.

The U.S. is energy independent and China isn’t. The U.S. and its allies can restrict Chinese exports and access to raw materials.

Smaller but politically irritating sanctions like denying wealthy Chinese the ability to purchase real estate in the U.S. could have political effects among Chinese elites. In the upcoming party Congress scheduled for this fall, Chinese President Xi Jinping wants to solidify his control. However, he faces internal Communist Party opposition. The U.S. could exploit emerging factions in the party elite.

Coercive diplomacy stops when China forces North Korea to denuclearize.

Risky? Of course. It could spark a ruinous global trade war. But it is an option.

3.) The cynical trade and sell-out. The U.S., Japan and South Korea could acknowledge Chinese control of the South China Sea or they could give Taiwan to China in exchange for a denuclearized North Korea.

Outrageous? Yes. India would never accept it. Indonesia, the Philippines, Vietnam, Singapore and Australia would go tilt.

I don’t think the U.S. and Japan would ever seriously contemplate it.

But it’s an option and likely the “appeasement” deal Beijing wants to make.

4.) Return of serve. This is an operation that could support several diplomatic options. The U.S., South Korea and Japan could use their ABMs to intercept every North Korean test launch. They might also employ cyber warfare to disrupt tests (perhaps they have already done so). The objective of “Return of Serve” is to stymie the test program and embarrass Kim Jong Un.

5.) Decapitation. What does Pyongyang want? The murder of Kim Jong Nam suggests one key objective: to retain Kim Jong Un’s control. Encouraging a North Korean Army coup sounds great, and if you know the faction who would do it, contact CIA immediately. Targeting Kim with a missile or aircraft-delivered munitions is extremely difficult. Moreover, his death may not lead to denuclearization and attacking him would be an act of war.

6.) Delayed reprisal and the war to denuclearize. Is a pre-emptive strike reckless? This asks another question: Just how responsible is a post-emptive strike?

The Korean War isn’t over.

Donald Trump is already a Korean War president—but so was Barack Obama and every other American president since Harry Truman.

Over the years, North Korea has committed atrocities throughout Asia. The regime has murdered and kidnapped South Koreans, Japanese and U.S. personnel. North Korea’s embedded belligerency defies the laws of war. The War to Denuclearize would be less of a pre-emptive strike than a delayed reprisal.

The U.S. and South Korea have exercised what they call a 4D strategy to “detect, defend, disrupt and destroy” North Korea’s missiles.

Weapons systems involved include various U.S. aircraft and a South Korean submarine with cruise missiles.

This is a bare sketch of some of the systems that would be employed in a “simultaneous strategic bombing strike” to knock out North Korean missiles, missile launchers, storage sites, nuclear and chemical weapons sites, command and control centers, communications systems and air-space defenses.

The U.S. and its allies in east Asia have the aircraft and missiles (cruise and ballistic) to deliver at least 2,000 (likely more) precision blockbuster-sized conventional weapons within a two to 10 minute time frame on North Korea’s critical targets. The April U.S. Tomahawk cruise missile attack on a Syrian Shayrat airbase provides an example.

The missiles were fired at a distance, but since they can “loiter,” the 59 missiles arrived near simultaneously. U.S. Air Force heavy bombers can drop smart bombs so that munitions dropped from different aircraft arrive near simultaneously.

A simultaneous strategic bombing strike seeks to surprise the enemy, destroy his strategic weapons systems and suppress his key defenses throughout the battle area.

That is asking a lot—perhaps too much.

Success depends on many things, but the first D—detect—is vital. Conducting a successful simultaneous strategic bombing strike requires very accurate, real-time intelligence. Allied ABMs must be ready to intercept any North Korean missiles that survive the attack.

That’s a sketch of the first 10 minutes. Over the next month subsequent strikes would occur, to make certain North Korea’s long-range missiles, chemical munitions, nuclear weapons stockpiles, missile manufacturing capabilities and nuclear weapons manufacturing capabilities are eliminated.

The U.S. and it allies must protect Seoul. North Korean artillery can bombard the northern reaches of South Korea’s capital. Military analysts debate the severity of the threat posed to Seoul by North Korean artillery deployed along the Demilitarized Zone. Some call it overrated. Perhaps, but best to suppress and destroy the artillery. North Korea’s tube and rocket artillery systems—even the ones in caves and bunkers—are vulnerable to weapons like the Massive Ordnance Air Blast (MOAB) bomb.

Smart bombs can close tunnel entrances.

This is a major war, and the risks are great. But so is exposing Los Angeles to the violent whims of a nuclear-armed Kim Jong Un.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
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^^ Pretty much my thoughts. Doing nothing means nuked cities.

10 minutes for phase 1 of the war, 2 months for phase 2.

20 years to rebuild.
   
Made in ca
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper





 JimOnMars wrote:
^^ Pretty much my thoughts. Doing nothing means nuked cities.

10 minutes for phase 1 of the war, 2 months for phase 2.

20 years to rebuild.


All this based off of your assumption that Kim Jong-un is mentally unstable? Seems like the same kind of thinking that got the US into Iraq.


You know it might be cheaper and less bloody to purchase all of North Korea in its current state than carry out your plan.
   
Made in us
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

 Frazzled wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
 Laughing Man wrote:
 JimOnMars wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
People keep glossing over the THEY HAVE NUKES thing.

Not yet deliverable...probably. Next year. We need to go now or not at all.

Not deliverable to the US. They've tested plenty of short range missiles that could conceivably carry a nuclear payload, and Japan and South Korea are both pretty definitely in range of those.


Weaponizing a nuclear weapon is a hell of an ordeal. Given that these guys can barely launch a missile successfully, most think tanks feel that it's very unlikely they've yet managed to weaponize their nuclear capability.


Again, they could drive it over in a truck and hit Seoul.

Which involves them defeating SK to the point of being able to bring the device in without it being destroyed. It's not as easy as all that. The North Korean army is big, but very outdated. And SKs has some of the most advanced militaty tech in the world, the K2 being of particular note. And they have a little more than 1000 K1's as well.

Plus, nukes are generally designed for airburst for a reason, the blast is much smaller otherwise.

Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





 Sanguinary Guardsman wrote:
 JimOnMars wrote:
^^ Pretty much my thoughts. Doing nothing means nuked cities.

10 minutes for phase 1 of the war, 2 months for phase 2.

20 years to rebuild.


All this based off of your assumption that Kim Jong-un is mentally unstable? Seems like the same kind of thinking that got the US into Iraq.


You know it might be cheaper and less bloody to purchase all of North Korea in its current state than carry out your plan.


Yes, much cheaper, IF we could buy it. What happens if they say "no sale?"
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Frazzled wrote:
There are always more than two options. What happens if just ignore them?


You are rigth that there are a lot more than two options, but ignoring them isn't one of them. This is a country with an acute dependency on aid to prevent economic and social meltdown, and it is also a country with the capability to kill millions of citizens in neighbouring countries. And of course, it is a country that showed in their mid-90s famine that they are willing to let their own people die to maintain political control.

So there has to be some kind of deal, that somehow manages to limit NK's destructive capabilities, maintains stability, and also leaves enough wiggle room for some kind of future hope of peaceful transition to normalcy.

Exactly how to manage that is the big question.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 JimOnMars wrote:
Absolutely.

Why?

We throw the same dice no matter what we do, except that slow pressure, of any kind, gives NK more time to make the decision. If NK will not go down without nuking somebody, then they are nuked. Period. 100% chance of death.

NK is unstable and could nuke anybody anytime for any reason. The ONLY hope we have is to try to bomb them before they can launch. Otherwise Seoul is nuked, or Japan, or the US.


Your assumption that NK will inevitably decide to press the button is totally wrong. I'm not saying that it can't happen, but your assumption that it will happen is totally false. Despotic regimes end non-violently all the time. The USSR ended itself. Portugal, Spain and the other despots of Europe in the 20th century ended up ceding power without attempting violent self-annihilation. South Africa not only ended its apartheid regime, it then began a program to dismantle its nukes.

In contrast, limited offensive campaigns have a long and ugly history of ending up as drawn out occupations.

Containment is not just a short term strategy, it is also the long term strategy with history on its side. It is by no means a perfect solution, and certainly isn't a call for a passive, directionless approach to NK, but it is the best option we have to minimise the threats from this problem.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/12 02:56:20


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 djones520 wrote:
 whembly wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
The real issue is that the west knows very little about what it might be facing in NK, though if you think that their military technology is backward, you're probably wrong.


While I agree with the sentiment, lets not go too far in the other direction. During the last exchange of artillery fire North Korea engaged in, they fired 170 shells. Only 80 hit the island they were aiming at, and of those, 20 of those didn't detonate.

60 still detonated...

Extrapolate that to the feth ton of artilleries... that's a lotta on-target hits.

:shudders:

I can't fathom a solution out of this...


It's because their isn't one. A pretty one at least.


There is. We thought the same of China, then they went capitalist. Same for Vietnam. Same for the pther military powers there. NK is ony different because NK chooses to be different.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
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Frostgrave

 Frazzled wrote:
Again, they could drive it over in a truck and hit Seoul.


They'd never get it through the DMZ. If they get desperate enough they could detonate it inside the DMZ or one of the tunnels (if they exist).
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Herzlos wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
Again, they could drive it over in a truck and hit Seoul.


They'd never get it through the DMZ. If they get desperate enough they could detonate it inside the DMZ or one of the tunnels (if they exist).


1. Drive it under the DMZ.
2. Take over the DMZ.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

 Sanguinary Guardsman wrote:
 JimOnMars wrote:
^^ Pretty much my thoughts. Doing nothing means nuked cities.

10 minutes for phase 1 of the war, 2 months for phase 2.

20 years to rebuild.


All this based off of your assumption that Kim Jong-un is mentally unstable? Seems like the same kind of thinking that got the US into Iraq.


You know it might be cheaper and less bloody to purchase all of North Korea in its current state than carry out your plan.


The answer is sadly. He is not stable.
Not even close.

He has been raised a king since birth and groomed for the role for a few years min.
He rules as a absolute leader of North Korea.

He does not trust own family. He killed alot of them.
He killed his ex. Maybe info.

He killed his brother. Threat tp him? Replacement Kim.
This man is not a safe pair of hands.

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
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The Great State of Texas

Sounds like your standard British king to me.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
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Catskills in NYS

 Frazzled wrote:
Herzlos wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
Again, they could drive it over in a truck and hit Seoul.


They'd never get it through the DMZ. If they get desperate enough they could detonate it inside the DMZ or one of the tunnels (if they exist).


1. Drive it under the DMZ.
2. Take over the DMZ.

1. You still have to get to Soel.
2: And that's not nearly as easy as it sounds, the SK army is nothing to laugh off.

Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Wait, you think a country who's leader invented golf and once made 6 holes in one would have a problem driving on Seoul?

North Korea is Best Korea!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/12 15:46:13


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
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Didn't we have some agency that specialized in deposing dictators?

What happened to those guys?
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




Building a blood in water scent

 Dreadwinter wrote:
Didn't we have some agency that specialized in deposing dictators?

What happened to those guys?


Bond is busy taking an "Appropriate Boundaries in the Workplace" course mandated by MI6 HR.

We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick






I've always wondered who's actually in charge of North Korea. Kim, or the generals and "lower level" politicians.

Kim doesn't seem like a particularly bright individual, and I find it hard to believe that he is actually running the place (although I am sure he thinks he does.) Not that North Korea is particularly well run (in fact it is terribly run) but still...

Regardless, some sort of coup combined with swift military action to declaw North Korea seems like the best option. Risky, but so is letting a bunch of psychopaths play with nukes.




You say Fiery Crash! I say Dynamic Entry!

*Increases Game Point Limit by 100*: Tau get two Crisis Suits and a Firewarrior. Imperial Guard get two infantry companies, artillery support, and APCs. 
   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





 feeder wrote:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
Didn't we have some agency that specialized in deposing dictators?

What happened to those guys?


Bond is busy taking an "Appropriate Boundaries in the Workplace" course mandated by MI6 HR.


Probably for the best. I would rather send in Snake Plisskin, personally.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




Building a blood in water scent

 Dreadwinter wrote:
 feeder wrote:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
Didn't we have some agency that specialized in deposing dictators?

What happened to those guys?


Bond is busy taking an "Appropriate Boundaries in the Workplace" course mandated by MI6 HR.


Probably for the best. I would rather send in Snake Plisskin, personally.


Escape From Pyongyang, a summer blockbuster coming soon to a theatre near you!

We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






 feeder wrote:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
 feeder wrote:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
Didn't we have some agency that specialized in deposing dictators?

What happened to those guys?


Bond is busy taking an "Appropriate Boundaries in the Workplace" course mandated by MI6 HR.


Probably for the best. I would rather send in Snake Plisskin, personally.


Escape From Pyongyang, a summer blockbuster coming soon to a theatre near you!


Id watch that instantly.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

China isn't as capitalist as you might think. Everything important is controlled by the communist government, and there are no signs they are thinking of giving up their iron fisting in a velvet glove.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

False alarm.
If you see it. Seems nuke test was a false alarm.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4690704/Earthquake-detected-coast-North-Korea.html

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus





 Desubot wrote:
 feeder wrote:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
 feeder wrote:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
Didn't we have some agency that specialized in deposing dictators?

What happened to those guys?


Bond is busy taking an "Appropriate Boundaries in the Workplace" course mandated by MI6 HR.


Probably for the best. I would rather send in Snake Plisskin, personally.


Escape From Pyongyang, a summer blockbuster coming soon to a theatre near you!


Id watch that instantly.


Same

3000
4000 
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
 Desubot wrote:
 feeder wrote:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
 feeder wrote:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
Didn't we have some agency that specialized in deposing dictators?

What happened to those guys?


Bond is busy taking an "Appropriate Boundaries in the Workplace" course mandated by MI6 HR.


Probably for the best. I would rather send in Snake Plisskin, personally.


Escape From Pyongyang, a summer blockbuster coming soon to a theatre near you!


Id watch that instantly.


Same


Snakenil have to do. Chuck Norris is fighting off Mothra and Sly Marbo is off making Australia safe to live in drop beer hunting.

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
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Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 Dreadwinter wrote:
Didn't we have some agency that specialized in deposing dictators?

What happened to those guys?


They also did work in selecting new Dictators. That part of the job they were pretty bad at and it bit the US in the ass several times. Now they've had to leave their cocaine fields in Colombia to grow Heroin in Afghanistan. It's a full time job.


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in ca
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper





 jhe90 wrote:
 Sanguinary Guardsman wrote:
 JimOnMars wrote:
^^ Pretty much my thoughts. Doing nothing means nuked cities.

10 minutes for phase 1 of the war, 2 months for phase 2.

20 years to rebuild.


All this based off of your assumption that Kim Jong-un is mentally unstable? Seems like the same kind of thinking that got the US into Iraq.


You know it might be cheaper and less bloody to purchase all of North Korea in its current state than carry out your plan.


The answer is sadly. He is not stable.
Not even close.

He has been raised a king since birth and groomed for the role for a few years min.
He rules as a absolute leader of North Korea.

He does not trust own family. He killed alot of them.
He killed his ex. Maybe info.

He killed his brother. Threat tp him? Replacement Kim.
This man is not a safe pair of hands.


None of these points suggest mental illness. What you are talking about is very likely to be quite rational from Kim's position however bloody.
If you do not understand what a foreign state is doing, assuming their leader/leadership to be insane is a really cheap explanation. We've seen this explanation used too often. Saddam was insane, Putin is insane, Kim Jong-un is insane, Gadaffi was insane etc etc.
   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Texas

I should totally do a bit more research, so take this simplistic approach with a grain of salt...

Simply put, I cannot really believe NK is an independent country in regards to resources and materials. Clearly, China is their supplier of these items and the hammer needs to come down from China. They have a spoiled brat of a child running rampant and it is time for Dad to crack their kid's behind, and good.

My Novella Collection is available on Amazon - Action/Fantasy/Sci-Fi - https://www.amazon.com/Three-Roads-Dreamt-Michael-Leonard/dp/1505716993/

 
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

 Sanguinary Guardsman wrote:
 jhe90 wrote:
 Sanguinary Guardsman wrote:
 JimOnMars wrote:
^^ Pretty much my thoughts. Doing nothing means nuked cities.

10 minutes for phase 1 of the war, 2 months for phase 2.

20 years to rebuild.


All this based off of your assumption that Kim Jong-un is mentally unstable? Seems like the same kind of thinking that got the US into Iraq.


You know it might be cheaper and less bloody to purchase all of North Korea in its current state than carry out your plan.


The answer is sadly. He is not stable.
Not even close.

He has been raised a king since birth and groomed for the role for a few years min.
He rules as a absolute leader of North Korea.

He does not trust own family. He killed alot of them.
He killed his ex. Maybe info.

He killed his brother. Threat tp him? Replacement Kim.
This man is not a safe pair of hands.


None of these points suggest mental illness. What you are talking about is very likely to be quite rational from Kim's position however bloody.
If you do not understand what a foreign state is doing, assuming their leader/leadership to be insane is a really cheap explanation. We've seen this explanation used too often. Saddam was insane, Putin is insane, Kim Jong-un is insane, Gadaffi was insane etc etc.


He had his uncle killed by mortar, then his entire family murdered as well.

How does that not scream mental instability?

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
 
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