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Grey Templar wrote: To be fair, given the level of malnutrition the average North Korean has, dropping Tex Mex would probably have an appreciable fatality rate.
Now thats the way to go!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
The sad fact is that North Korea is the losing card in any game. It can't win, but whoever defeats them with a high hand gets the black losing card added to his deck.
Wiping out their stuff would be ridiculously easy for the US, China or even South Korea - but someone has to pony up for making it a working country again, a country with nice well-adjusted citizens who can function in the modern world. This will cost money. A lot of money. No one wants to pay that money.
If the US does it alone and leaves the consequences for others to deal with, goodbye to any US international reputation and goodwill. NATO falls along with it. Putin laughs and annexes Europe.
Spetulhu wrote: The sad fact is that North Korea is the losing card in any game. It can't win, but whoever defeats them with a high hand gets the black losing card added to his deck.
Wiping out their stuff would be ridiculously easy for the US, China or even South Korea - but someone has to pony up for making it a working country again, a country with nice well-adjusted citizens who can function in the modern world. This will cost money. A lot of money. No one wants to pay that money.
If the US does it alone and leaves the consequences for others to deal with, goodbye to any US international reputation and goodwill. NATO falls along with it. Putin laughs and annexes Europe.
Not to mention that while North Korea is no match for the likes of the US or South Korea, it is still far from harmless. A war against North Korea would not only cost a lot in economic terms, it would also claim a high cost in human lifes.
Also, China is ultimately not going to be giving up on North Korea. It may have become a liability to China, but the fall of the North Korean regime is likely to mean Korean reunification under South Korean leadership. And everything is better than having a bunch of US lackeys on your doorstep. Just ask Russia.
In my opinion, the best way to deal with the North Korean regime would be to stop threatening them and instead engage with them in economic relationships and aid and try to improve the average North Korean's standard of living as much as possible. More economic prosperity means the North Korean people will have the luxury of thinking about politics instead of simply trying to survive. A less politically apathic population + more foreign contacts = Kim-Jong-Un's biggest nightmare. Ultimately, we can't deal with the North Korean regime without massive damage to ourselves. We need to make sure the North Koreans themselves deal with their regime.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/31 20:02:20
Vaktathi wrote: The US would not come off any better in such a trade war, we both buy too much stuff from each other, stuff that the other cannot readily replace or replace with the same cost effectiveness. Slapping massive tarriffs on Chinese goods would be economic suicide, and cut the biggest incentive China has to cooperate. There's a reason that hasnt been done yet, and why tariffs are seen as 19th century mechanisms.The world economy is far too interconnected for something like that to not horrifically backfire.
Yes, it would hurt us too. But less than it hurts them. And the point of such a threat is to not have to go through with it(but be willing to go through with it if China doesn't cooperate) because China backs down.
Hrm, I would not assume it would hurt the US less than China. China could much more easily find alternate routes and customers to deliver goods than many US companies could find alternate suppliers that could meet volume demands, and nobody is going to tolerate the newest iPhone model being late or 40% more expensive, while the Chinese government is a whole lot less responsive to such pressure
Spetulhu wrote: The sad fact is that North Korea is the losing card in any game. It can't win, but whoever defeats them with a high hand gets the black losing card added to his deck.
Wiping out their stuff would be ridiculously easy for the US, China or even South Korea - but someone has to pony up for making it a working country again, a country with nice well-adjusted citizens who can function in the modern world. This will cost money. A lot of money. No one wants to pay that money.
If the US does it alone and leaves the consequences for others to deal with, goodbye to any US international reputation and goodwill. NATO falls along with it. Putin laughs and annexes Europe.
Not to mention that while North Korea is no match for the likes of the US or South Korea, it is still far from harmless. A war against North Korea would not only cost a lot in economic terms, it would also claim a high cost in human lifes.
Also, China is ultimately not going to be giving up on North Korea. It may have become a liability to China, but the fall of the North Korean regime is likely to mean Korean reunification under South Korean leadership. And everything is better than having a bunch of US lackeys on your doorstep. Just ask Russia.
In my opinion, the best way to deal with the North Korean regime would be to stop threatening them and instead engage with them in economic relationships and aid and try to improve the average North Korean's standard of living as much as possible. More economic prosperity means the North Korean people will have the luxury of thinking about politics instead of simply trying to survive. A less politically apathic population + more foreign contacts = Kim-Jong-Un's biggest nightmare.
Ultimately, we can't deal with the North Korean regime without massive damage to ourselves. We need to make sure the North Koreans themselves deal with their regime.
The issue is that the North Korean government, as it currently exists, needs that outside enemy as the everpresent threat in order to maintain power. They have to drive the narrative that theyre the underdog bravely fending off hostile imperialist powers ready to invade and kill everyone at a moments notice. If such is not present, they have and will create such a threat for domestic consumption. Unless there are major internal changes to NK's government in the way that the USSR and China experienced after the shadows of Stalin and Mao finally passed, that will not change. It may happen someday, in fact almost certainly will, and that would be the point at which engagement could work, but not yet.
The NK government has spent many years rebranding the old communist internationalism they started with into a uniquely Kim family centered diving right monarchy political philosophy built around an imminently threatened ethnic identity and putting the military above all things. If the US disappeared tomorrow from the face of the planet, NK wouldn't change much, the big enemy would just change faces, it's the only way to keep those in power where they are, and they would capture pretty much all gains made from outside engagements at the cost of their people, as NK has demonstrated in the past.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Iron_Captain wrote: Ultimately, we can't deal with the North Korean regime without massive damage to ourselves. We need to make sure the North Koreans themselves deal with their regime.
Aye, absolutely. Now we just need to come up with some way of making sure they do that, which isn't easy if they don't even have unlimited electricity so they could listen to South Korean propaganda.
Paying off Kim (as already proposed in this thread) for peaceful retirement might well be the best and safest for all of us, even if we make him richer than the Saudi King in the process. Damn, I would like a retirement plan like that...
A Town Called Malus wrote: Not to mention, when you launch those nukes, China will detect them and it will not be clear until they land whether they are targeting North Korea or China. Are they going to wait and see before they launch their retaliatory strike?
One presumes that while the retaliatory strike is being prepped and launched, the US will have a lot of communications with China to tell them the missiles are only going to hit North Korea, because that's the only country that just attacked the US.
One also presumes China aren't staggering idiots who'll commit to destroying the planet because their missile tracking can't tell if the US is only attacking the country that just attacked them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frazzled wrote: We could always employ the Cuba policy we did with the USSR: any attack from NK will be viewed as a direct attack from China itself.
The missiles in Cuba were Russian built, Russian operated, and to be fired on the orders of Moscow. As such, yeah any attack from Cuba would be seen as an attack by the Soviet Union, because it was.
Running the same line of argument here makes no sense, it NK's own program, operated by its own soldiers, and will fire under the order of NK command. China has no input and no say.
What you're arguing is like claiming the US should be held responsible for anything SK does.
China will quit playing games (NK did not develop all that that fast without China help) and realize thus is now serious gak. China is using NK as a negotiation tool.
Not really. China wants rid of the NK mess as well. They just don't want the 'solution' to involve a massive humanitarian crisis that will drive millions of people pouring over its borders.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/01 01:57:51
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Vaktathi wrote: The US would not come off any better in such a trade war, we both buy too much stuff from each other, stuff that the other cannot readily replace or replace with the same cost effectiveness. Slapping massive tarriffs on Chinese goods would be economic suicide, and cut the biggest incentive China has to cooperate. There's a reason that hasnt been done yet, and why tariffs are seen as 19th century mechanisms.The world economy is far too interconnected for something like that to not horrifically backfire.
Yes, it would hurt us too. But less than it hurts them. And the point of such a threat is to not have to go through with it(but be willing to go through with it if China doesn't cooperate) because China backs down.
Hrm, I would not assume it would hurt the US less than China. China could much more easily find alternate routes and customers to deliver goods than many US companies could find alternate suppliers that could meet volume demands, and nobody is going to tolerate the newest iPhone model being late or 40% more expensive, while the Chinese government is a whole lot less responsive to such pressure
I guarantee that China would never find replacement markets for what the US buys. Not even close. They'd have to dump it all for fractions of pennies on the dollar just to get stuff moved, and that still would have the net effect of ruining their economy because they didn't cover costs. You can't find new markets overnight, especially when they don't exist.
Europe? China already sells to Europe. They're not going to more than double their Chinese imports.
Africa or South America? Even worse than trying to get Europe to absorb the former US imports, except now they don't have anywhere near the amount of money.
As for "mah iPhone is too expensive!!!". The damn things are already too expensive. People gotta finance their freaking phones nowdays. The latest is going to be over $1000.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/02 16:12:57
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Iron_Captain wrote: Ultimately, we can't deal with the North Korean regime without massive damage to ourselves. We need to make sure the North Koreans themselves deal with their regime.
Aye, absolutely. Now we just need to come up with some way of making sure they do that, which isn't easy if they don't even have unlimited electricity so they could listen to South Korean propaganda.
Paying off Kim (as already proposed in this thread) for peaceful retirement might well be the best and safest for all of us, even if we make him richer than the Saudi King in the process. Damn, I would like a retirement plan like that...
I have a calendar set aside every year for the express purpose of marking down the day that "other people's money" stops being the default solution to any problem.
As far as how to handle it: infiltrate the country with western operatives that blend in, and when the coup is enacted, then they can guide things into a little more stable democratic direction. It isn't a fast solution, but it's the one that has the least amount of casualties without uselessly dumping tons of money we don't have on someone who will more than likely not even honor any deal made with said money.
Vaktathi wrote: The US would not come off any better in such a trade war, we both buy too much stuff from each other, stuff that the other cannot readily replace or replace with the same cost effectiveness. Slapping massive tarriffs on Chinese goods would be economic suicide, and cut the biggest incentive China has to cooperate. There's a reason that hasnt been done yet, and why tariffs are seen as 19th century mechanisms.The world economy is far too interconnected for something like that to not horrifically backfire.
Yes, it would hurt us too. But less than it hurts them. And the point of such a threat is to not have to go through with it(but be willing to go through with it if China doesn't cooperate) because China backs down.
Hrm, I would not assume it would hurt the US less than China. China could much more easily find alternate routes and customers to deliver goods than many US companies could find alternate suppliers that could meet volume demands, and nobody is going to tolerate the newest iPhone model being late or 40% more expensive, while the Chinese government is a whole lot less responsive to such pressure
I guarantee that China would never find replacement markets for what the US buys. Not even close. They'd have to dump it all for fractions of pennies on the dollar just to get stuff moved, and that still would have the net effect of ruining their economy because they didn't cover costs. You can't find new markets overnight, especially when they don't exist.
Hrm, when US firms are no longer able to supply because production capability is not available, then other options open up. There's India, Europe, Russia, etc. and they'll buy other stuff China can make. Doesn't have to be the newest iPhone or laptop...or it can once the US manufacturer can't import from there affordably and the IP and production capacity remain .
Europe? China already sells to Europe. They're not going to more than double their Chinese imports.
When thousands of firms are suddenly cut off from their production supply and European competitors can buy up that production time and spread into market share?
Africa or South America? Even worse than trying to get Europe to absorb the former US imports, except now they don't have anywhere near the amount of money.
They're both sideshows currently, agreed.
As for "mah iPhone is too expensive!!!". The damn things are already too expensive. People gotta finance their freaking phones nowdays. The latest is going to be over $1000.
It was a bit hyperbolic, but the point is they'd be dramatically more expensive to produce here domestically. There's a reason they're produced in China.
Ultimately, it would do no good for anybody and there's no evidence that it would hurt the US less than it would hurt China, at least not in any meaningful way. It would be economic suicide for both nations, whoever came out "better" would be academic.
Iron_Captain wrote: Ultimately, we can't deal with the North Korean regime without massive damage to ourselves. We need to make sure the North Koreans themselves deal with their regime.
Aye, absolutely. Now we just need to come up with some way of making sure they do that, which isn't easy if they don't even have unlimited electricity so they could listen to South Korean propaganda.
Paying off Kim (as already proposed in this thread) for peaceful retirement might well be the best and safest for all of us, even if we make him richer than the Saudi King in the process. Damn, I would like a retirement plan like that...
I have a calendar set aside every year for the express purpose of marking down the day that "other people's money" stops being the default solution to any problem.
To be fair, this approach as been used to great success many times in the past by many empires. It's often cheaper to buy out the troublesome barbarian tribe or irritating insurgents than to fight them, which costs a whole lot people a whole lot more. Worked in Iraq quite well in some instances actually, where lots of insurgents and groups were literally just bought off and went home or started working for security forces instead.
Don't think it'll work here however, the problem is that Kim, much like many dictators of such station, know they're dead the second they're out of power even if those in power work to protect them. You don't get to give up being a Stalin or Hitler, the game ends when you die, not before.
As far as how to handle it: infiltrate the country with western operatives that blend in, and when the coup is enacted, then they can guide things into a little more stable democratic direction. It isn't a fast solution, but it's the one that has the least amount of casualties without uselessly dumping tons of money we don't have on someone who will more than likely not even honor any deal made with said money.
This kind of james bond stuff works...poorly in real life, and usually doesn't come off anywhere near as smooth as one expects, and is usually caught on to in some form or fashion, and also usually doesn't lead to a more stable democratic direction, at least in those that agencies like the CIA have been involved in in the past.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
North Korea just tested another nuke. Around 25 kt this time. I think it is time to accept the reality of a North Korea with nuclear armed ICBMs. At this point the cure will be worse than the disease
They also say it is small enough to be mounted on an ICBM, which at this point I have no trouble believing. I guess this means that any military solution is definitely off the table.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/03 08:19:41
They also say it is small enough to be mounted on an ICBM, which at this point I have no trouble believing. I guess this means that any military solution is definitely off the table.
Atmospheric testing still needs to be done to sample radionucleotides released by the test.
Should NK attempt an atmospheric tor live fire test then Ill be a bit more worried they have capability.
They also say it is small enough to be mounted on an ICBM, which at this point I have no trouble believing. I guess this means that any military solution is definitely off the table.
No. It actually makes it more important to have an all out first strike on any potential targets.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
They also say it is small enough to be mounted on an ICBM, which at this point I have no trouble believing. I guess this means that any military solution is definitely off the table.
No. It actually makes it more important to have an all out first strike on any potential targets.
Also means though, now people know he has that kinda capability. He also might have to be more careful as if they test a missile there now maybe thinking of they facing a nuclear strike.
Theres only one response to a nuclear strike.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
Yes, it's a bit of a precarious situation - to boast of striking places like Guam, and then declare you have a H-bomb ready to go into an ICBM, and then to go on firing ICBMs over Japanese mainland without any warning as to your intent.
It's for the benefit of everyone that they start communicating properly. Randomly firing off missiles in the direction of other countries when you have nuclear capability invites retaliation.
Howard A Treesong wrote: Yes, it's a bit of a precarious situation - to boast of striking places like Guam, and then declare you have a H-bomb ready to go into an ICBM, and then to go on firing ICBMs over Japanese mainland without any warning as to your intent.
It's for the benefit of everyone that they start communicating properly. Randomly firing off missiles in the direction of other countries when you have nuclear capability invites retaliation.
You may accuse me of being blase on this, but as I said earlier, what are the North going to do?
Any attack on the USA = wipeout, NATO article 5 getting activated etc etc Even China and Russia would be reluctant to take on the USA and the rest of NATO + Japan.
If South Korea or Japan is attacked with nukes, again, the North is wiped from the face of the map.
So the North are reduced to jumping up and down, with a malnourished army, and a nuclear weapon they can't use.
I wouldn't lose a minute's sleep over this.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
I don't think the danger is "The North will nuke yo ass!"...
It's the "The North will secretly give this & that nuke to ISIS, or some other bad actors"...
The silver lining of all that... is that, every nuke device has it's own regional "finger-print" that's easy to ascertain. So, in the event of a nuke being used, we'd know where it came from.
As far as how to handle it: infiltrate the country with western operatives that blend in, and when the coup is enacted, then they can guide things into a little more stable democratic direction. It isn't a fast solution, but it's the one that has the least amount of casualties without uselessly dumping tons of money we don't have on someone who will more than likely not even honor any deal made with said money.
Has that ever worked anywhere?
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
whembly wrote: I don't think the danger is "The North will nuke yo ass!"...
It's the "The North will secretly give this & that nuke to ISIS, or some other bad actors"...
The silver lining of all that... is that, every nuke device has it's own regional "finger-print" that's easy to ascertain. So, in the event of a nuke being used, we'd know where it came from.
True.
The North Koreans are a lot of things, but they're not so silly as to sign their own death warrant with a pre-emptive strike.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
As far as how to handle it: infiltrate the country with western operatives that blend in, and when the coup is enacted, then they can guide things.
Has that ever worked anywhere?
Against democracies the big boys want to replace with a nice pliable dictatorship, yes. How long said dictator remains under control is another question.
Howard A Treesong wrote: Yes, it's a bit of a precarious situation - to boast of striking places like Guam, and then declare you have a H-bomb ready to go into an ICBM, and then to go on firing ICBMs over Japanese mainland without any warning as to your intent.
It's for the benefit of everyone that they start communicating properly. Randomly firing off missiles in the direction of other countries when you have nuclear capability invites retaliation.
Yeah, if you make yourself too much of a mad dog, someone will put oyu down when youe wild card nature out weighs the cost.
If your throwing potential nukes about. people aint gonna have much tolerance to the concept.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
whembly wrote: I don't think the danger is "The North will nuke yo ass!"...
It's the "The North will secretly give this & that nuke to ISIS, or some other bad actors"...
The silver lining of all that... is that, every nuke device has it's own regional "finger-print" that's easy to ascertain. So, in the event of a nuke being used, we'd know where it came from.
This has been a 'fear' since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Its highly unlikely that NK nuclear tech or material will get into the hands of non ideologically sound actors. They may export missile tech though
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/03 15:36:46
As far as how to handle it: infiltrate the country with western operatives that blend in, and when the coup is enacted, then they can guide things.
Has that ever worked anywhere?
Against democracies the big boys want to replace with a nice pliable dictatorship, yes. How long said dictator remains under control is another question.
Yeah thats easier, replacing a dictatorship with a democacy - now thats very very hard and usually results in civil war unless you have massive investment by one of the powers.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
whembly wrote: I don't think the danger is "The North will nuke yo ass!"...
It's the "The North will secretly give this & that nuke to ISIS, or some other bad actors"...
The silver lining of all that... is that, every nuke device has it's own regional "finger-print" that's easy to ascertain. So, in the event of a nuke being used, we'd know where it came from.
This has been a 'fear' since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Its highly unlikely that NK nuclear tech or material will get into the hands of non ideologically sound actors. They may export missile tech though
They also know im sure the rule.
You give a nuke. there gonna hold the source to account. AKA NK.
So, you got CHina who if NK where proved guilty of nuclear terror supply. well. they aint gonna bail out his ass when the world rounds on him and tells him to stand down or die.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
whembly wrote: I don't think the danger is "The North will nuke yo ass!"...
It's the "The North will secretly give this & that nuke to ISIS, or some other bad actors"...
The silver lining of all that... is that, every nuke device has it's own regional "finger-print" that's easy to ascertain. So, in the event of a nuke being used, we'd know where it came from.
This has been a 'fear' since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Its highly unlikely that NK nuclear tech or material will get into the hands of non ideologically sound actors. They may export missile tech though
They also know im sure the rule.
You give a nuke. there gonna hold the source to account. AKA NK.
So, you got CHina who if NK where proved guilty of nuclear terror supply. well. they aint gonna bail out his ass when the world rounds on him and tells him to stand down or die.
Its a non issue really.
The real issue is understanding NK.
funnily enough the only stable thing about tensions on this penninsula is NK and its leadership. The current thinking is that once NK knows the west knows it has a viable nuclear weapon It will back down and continue on its previous path.
As far as how to handle it: infiltrate the country with western operatives that blend in, and when the coup is enacted, then they can guide things into a little more stable democratic direction. It isn't a fast solution, but it's the one that has the least amount of casualties without uselessly dumping tons of money we don't have on someone who will more than likely not even honor any deal made with said money.
Has that ever worked anywhere?
Has giving dictators other people's money worked anywhere? Maybe short term tops? I can't think of a situation right off hand where rewarding someone for incredibly gakky behavior and bad ethical and human rights actions resulted in that person suddenly developing better behavior. Come to think of it, I can't offhand think of a situation where other people's money has solved ANY issues in the long term.
whembly wrote: I don't think the danger is "The North will nuke yo ass!"...
It's the "The North will secretly give this & that nuke to ISIS, or some other bad actors"...
The silver lining of all that... is that, every nuke device has it's own regional "finger-print" that's easy to ascertain. So, in the event of a nuke being used, we'd know where it came from.
This has been a 'fear' since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Its highly unlikely that NK nuclear tech or material will get into the hands of non ideologically sound actors. They may export missile tech though
They also know im sure the rule.
You give a nuke. there gonna hold the source to account. AKA NK.
So, you got CHina who if NK where proved guilty of nuclear terror supply. well. they aint gonna bail out his ass when the world rounds on him and tells him to stand down or die.
Its a non issue really.
The real issue is understanding NK.
funnily enough the only stable thing about tensions on this penninsula is NK and its leadership. The current thinking is that once NK knows the west knows it has a viable nuclear weapon It will back down and continue on its previous path.
That is a rather high gamble to take, given the absolute flying rodent gak insane things that guy has said and done. Hand a megalomaniac a gun, they don't tend to suddenly relax and read the Sunday Funnies.
As far as how to handle it: infiltrate the country with western operatives that blend in, and when the coup is enacted, then they can guide things into a little more stable democratic direction. It isn't a fast solution, but it's the one that has the least amount of casualties without uselessly dumping tons of money we don't have on someone who will more than likely not even honor any deal made with said money.
Has that ever worked anywhere?
Has giving dictators other people's money worked anywhere? Maybe short term tops? I can't think of a situation right off hand where rewarding someone for incredibly gakky behavior and bad ethical and human rights actions resulted in that person suddenly developing better behavior. Come to think of it, I can't offhand think of a situation where other people's money has solved ANY issues in the long term.
whembly wrote: I don't think the danger is "The North will nuke yo ass!"...
It's the "The North will secretly give this & that nuke to ISIS, or some other bad actors"...
The silver lining of all that... is that, every nuke device has it's own regional "finger-print" that's easy to ascertain. So, in the event of a nuke being used, we'd know where it came from.
This has been a 'fear' since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Its highly unlikely that NK nuclear tech or material will get into the hands of non ideologically sound actors. They may export missile tech though
They also know im sure the rule.
You give a nuke. there gonna hold the source to account. AKA NK.
So, you got CHina who if NK where proved guilty of nuclear terror supply. well. they aint gonna bail out his ass when the world rounds on him and tells him to stand down or die.
Its a non issue really.
The real issue is understanding NK.
funnily enough the only stable thing about tensions on this penninsula is NK and its leadership. The current thinking is that once NK knows the west knows it has a viable nuclear weapon It will back down and continue on its previous path.
That is a rather high gamble to take, given the absolute flying rodent gak insane things that guy has said and done. Hand a megalomaniac a gun, they don't tend to suddenly relax and read the Sunday Funnies.
He ain't gonna back down now. He just ask for more and more.
And then throw more his sympathy fits. Now with nukes if he not get his way.
"the appeaser feeds a crocodile hoping it eats them last"
Roughly sum of a Churchill quote. The truth has not changed.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
What has NK actually done other than going "come at me bro"?
Having a bigger nuke doesn't really change much for them, they've been able to kill hundreds of thousands of people at a moments notice for a very long time now. Throwing a nuke around isn't going to threaten anymore people than they are already threatening, and they haven't been dumb enough to go crazy and launch actual rockets at anybody so far and that's not going to change. NK knows they need a scary enemy to survive, they also know they don't need an actual retaliation.
All this talk about how to get rid of NK? That's what he wants, that's success, that's the point of the nuke rather than actually using them.
One rabid squirrel is easy to handle. And just as easy to ignore. And just as easy to get bitten by because you chose to ignore it. Once more, just google pretty much ANYTHING that crackpot has said, and tell me you trust this guy to think logically or long term about ANYTHING, let alone the tiny wang overcompensation high he will feel when turning Japan into the next Fist Of The North Star film location.
Nuclear weapons were always a weapon of dissuasion. They are never meant to be used.
Just ask Colin Powell
What North Korea does is the usual stuff. NK's leader is still taunting Trump, that doesn't change. That's how he keeps himself at the head of his regime ; showing he can stand against America's tyranny. The way Trump is acting is basically helping him.
Military option isn't the solution, here. It never was.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/04 01:30:55
