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Since the release of 8th, my brother and I have been play-testing lists against each other to see whats strong. I play Orks, he plays Space Marines. In the last few games we've played hes taken vultures; those forge world flyers that have twin-punisher canons. He runs two of them, so needless to say, 80 shots per turn is not leaving me with much infantry alive once they leave their transports; and honestly dakka I dont know what to do. Ive tried foot-slogging horde (both with a mek providing a KFF, and a weridboy with da jump) and it broke my heart to see a unit of 30 boys reduced to one ork after a single turn of shooting. Ive tried running battlewagons and trukks, but the las on his razerbacks (which he runs 4 of, plus another flyer with 3 more; all twin) take them out pretty quickly, at which point the guys insude get punished.

In terms of countering them ive tried wazbom-blastajets, lootas, and tankbustas; but all have failed due to orks terrible BS plus -1 to hit against a flyer. The only other thing I can thing of is mek gunz, and maybe MSU assault to split his targets

So does anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with this? Or is it simly the hard counter to orks...
His list is here:
Azrael
Mephiston
2 vindicare assassins
2 eversor assassins
4 tactical squads w/plasma
4 razerbacks w/las
2 vultures with punishers
vulture with 3x las

You should throw the word "Orks" in the title to help attract some Ork players.
Anyway, bump bump, bump bump it up!

Honestly, his list looks INCREDIBLY cheesy. Taking 5 Forge World fliers that are all very obviously undercosted and that Orks have no potential cost-effective counter to, and building the rest of his list around destroying any potential options you could bring to diminish the impact of his fliers, seems very unfun and unfair to you. I don't know what you could do to beat that list, since Orks lack enough significant AA to really take out five fliers, and you can't ignore them since they will absolutely shred you on the ground.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(Something I'll add: Orks took a pretty heavy hit with the changes to fliers. Fliers used to be costed and designed with a 'Hitting on 6s' in mind, which was only a minor problem for most Ork units who were hitting on 5s normally. Lootas and other units could serve as semi-decent Anti Air choices, then, without having to be dedicated. Now, though, fliers are designed witha '-1 to hit' in mind, which is a massive problem for Orks since we're still having just as much trouble hitting, but everyone else hits more easily, so the fliers are now cheaper. We don't have the AA choices to do much about this, either - our artillery is okay, but not particularly great.)

Waaaghpower wrote:
Honestly, his list looks INCREDIBLY cheesy. Taking 5 Forge World fliers that are all very obviously undercosted and that Orks have no potential cost-effective counter to, and building the rest of his list around destroying any potential options you could bring to diminish the impact of his fliers, seems very unfun and unfair to you. I don't know what you could do to beat that list, since Orks lack enough significant AA to really take out five fliers, and you can't ignore them since they will absolutely shred you on the ground.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(Something I'll add: Orks took a pretty heavy hit with the changes to fliers. Fliers used to be costed and designed with a 'Hitting on 6s' in mind, which was only a minor problem for most Ork units who were hitting on 5s normally. Lootas and other units could serve as semi-decent Anti Air choices, then, without having to be dedicated. Now, though, fliers are designed witha '-1 to hit' in mind, which is a massive problem for Orks since we're still having just as much trouble hitting, but everyone else hits more easily, so the fliers are now cheaper. We don't have the AA choices to do much about this, either - our artillery is okay, but not particularly great.)

Slight misunderstanding, he has 3 fliers. 2 with punishers, and one with three twin las (not 3 individual ships with las). Sorry I should've made that clearer.
Do you think mek guns is a good option? Firing on ballistic skill 4 means ill be hitting his ships of 5s when he moves, and 4s if he goes in hover mode. Also flash gits (killa kans too) have 4+ BS but i dont have the models...

As an ork player I have to admit that we have yet to discover a good way to take out fliers in 8th edition. What mission did you play?

pismakron wrote:
As an ork player I have to admit that we have yet to discover a good way to take out fliers in 8th edition. What mission did you play?

We've done the scouring, and retrieval mission

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
You should throw the word "Orks" in the title to help attract some Ork players.
Anyway, bump bump, bump bump it up!

Orkz always come a runnin to the fight, we lives to Waaagh and die

Anyways, I think because it's forgeworld I can add a datasheet.

Thats 40 shots, and he is going to be hitting on 3+ unless it is stormboyz or jets. 26 or 27 hits with str 5, two of those a turn is roughly 53ish hits.

Str 5 has interesting properties, t6 is a trukk, or a kan and str5 only wounds those on 5+. Punisher cannon has no AP modifier making vehicle/nob/meganob armor saves a factor.

The best you can do is design your army not to care about those twin punisher cannons. The orkiest way is to go cheaper and bring more boyz, bring a FnP too for an extra 6+, soo many that him removing 30+ a turn isn't soo concerning.

The sneakier way to not care about 80 BS3 Str5 shots is to put everything in a t6+ trukk or wagon because it turns those 53ish hits into a third of the wounds that your vehicle will recieve saves for. If they have popped a vehicle at best he gets a medium or small squad of orkz to maybe overkill instead of a whole block. Take your orkz in vehicles and overwhelm all of his anti vehicle assets and then try to weather the punisher cannon while scoring. Trukkz and wagonz will get you there fast, limiting how much time he has to inflict casualties.

Play maelstorm and outscore him for the first 3 turns than pray that the game ends earlier. No other good way. Kinda like before.

Since stormboyz have the fly keyword if they can catch a flyer - can't they assault it? Similar with koptas?

I feel like with how face koptas are and the cheapness/mobility of stormboyz you could go after his flyers and assault them yes? Or is there some rule I'm missing here?

Take a Firestorm Redoubt with two Icarus Quad Lascannons and put a unit of lootaz in it?

That's probably the best anti-air you can get as ork, even if its just 8 lascannons hitting on 5+. At very least it's going to take him a ton of shooting to remove that fortification.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xicsess wrote:
Since stormboyz have the fly keyword if they can catch a flyer - can't they assault it? Similar with koptas?

I feel like with how face koptas are and the cheapness/mobility of stormboyz you could go after his flyers and assault them yes? Or is there some rule I'm missing here?

The problem is that those punisher cannons will most likely make short work of any stormboyz you field and all those lascannons and plasma weapons kill koptaz very fast.