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So the rules clearly state that most weapons can't be fired if enemy models are within 1". Except Pistol. They CAN be fired if enemy models are within 1". Does this mean that if I have models locked in Close Combat, then during the Shooting Phase they can fire their pistols at the squad they are fighting with?

I interpret this to mean, yes, pistols are the only shooting weapons you can fire when models are locked in close combat.

This worked out hilariously last night when my Chaos Lord shot a guardsmen point blank in the face with his plasma pistol.

Yes, this is their function.

To me, this is a large improvement. You no longer gain that +1 Attack due to having models with a pistol type weapon and a close combat weapon of some sorts, but you can shoot people at point blank range. This also means your Khorne Berzerker with a chainsword and a plasma pistol no longer makes just those Strength 5 AP 0 Damage 1 attacks, turning your plasma pistol in a very expensive extra basic attack.

phydaux wrote:
Does this mean that if I have models locked in Close Combat, then during the Shooting Phase they can fire their pistols at the squad they are fighting with?

I had a similar question previously. If I now understand correctly, models with pistols who are in Close Combat can still fire during the Shooting Phase, and then again during the Fighting Phase.

Not quite.

They fire their pistols in the shooting phase, at the enemy unit they are in close combat with (those within 1").

Then in the Fight phase, they use their Attacks characteristics in combination with the close combat weapons (those typed as 'Melee'). Pistols remain outside of the Fight phase.

No. Pistols are not used at all in the fight phase.

The models "merely" shoot their foes in the shooting phase.

I guess if Pistols can't be used in the Fight Phase, I misunderstood them being referred to as used in melee:

Pistol
Pistols are carried one-handed and
can even be used in a melee to shoot
at point-blank range.

Being new to 40k, I assumed melee in the above rule was referencing the Fight Phase.

alienux wrote:
I guess if Pistols can't be used in the Fight Phase, I misunderstood them being referred to as used in melee:

Pistol
Pistols are carried one-handed and
can even be used in a melee to shoot
at point-blank range.

Being new to 40k, I assumed melee in the above rule was referencing the Fight Phase.

Fluff text

 Talamare wrote:

alienux wrote:
I guess if Pistols can't be used in the Fight Phase, I misunderstood them being referred to as used in melee:

Pistol
Pistols are carried one-handed and
can even be used in a melee to shoot
at point-blank range.

Being new to 40k, I assumed melee in the above rule was referencing the Fight Phase.

Fluff text

Got it, thanks for the clarification.

What if I choose to fall back out of close combat during the movement phase? Do I then get to shoot ALL my ranged weapons in the shooting phase?


(BTW, I went to my FLAGS to buy the new basic book, but they were out, and apparently GW is ALSO out until more get reprinted. Has anyone else heard this? How is this even possible?)

phydaux wrote:
What if I choose to fall back out of close combat during the movement phase? Do I then get to shoot ALL my ranged weapons in the shooting phase?

From 'Falling Back' (pg. 177 of the 8th edition rulebook):

A unit that Falls Back also cannot shoot later that turn unless it can FLY.

GW has the 12 page core rules free to download on their website:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Warhammer-40000-Rules

phydaux wrote:
What if I choose to fall back out of close combat during the movement phase? Do I then get to shoot ALL my ranged weapons in the shooting phase?


(BTW, I went to my FLAGS to buy the new basic book, but they were out, and apparently GW is ALSO out until more get reprinted. Has anyone else heard this? How is this even possible?)

No, only if you can fly. Its clearly stated in the Fall Back rules.

By the way, can allies shoot into friendly melee combat they aren't a part of with Pistols.

I'm strongly inclined to say NO, but I'm not 100%

Do allies even exist anymore? I didn't see any ally rules in the book.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Do allies even exist anymore? I didn't see any ally rules in the book.

...........

allies meaning friendly models

Oh, I don't think so. Doesn't the rule say it can only shoot at a unit in CC if the firing unit is within 1"? But if its within 1", then the unit is already in combat, right?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Oh, I don't think so. Doesn't the rule say it can only shoot at a unit in CC if the firing unit is within 1"? But if its within 1", then the unit is already in combat, right?

Correct.

You can only shoot into a close combat if you are in a close combat, and then the rules also basically restrict you to shooting at the close combat you are in(you being the shooting model).

For instance, you have 2 tactical squads in combat(each unit within 1") of 2 ork boyz squads. They are separated by 6". Tac 1 is in combat with boyz A; tac 1 marines can all shoot their pistols but mut do so at the closest enemy unit, which is likely to be boyz A. Any outlier marines in Tac1 that are actually closer to Orks B(in combat with Tac 2) would have to then shoot at orks b.

It is really hard to write out without visuals.

Yeah I just went down this road

The fluff wording screwed me up originally. For models like Seraphim, who have 2 pistols, they get a nerfbat in CC. They get a single attack (no bonus for dual wield) but get to shoot again in the shooting phase. That messed with my head...how a mob would smack (with one attack no less) someone in the face with the pistol, but then get to shoot them point blank a moment latter -- all just separated by phases.

The added bonus of being able to re-shoot when locked in combat isn't bad, but not really a boon to units that *only* have pistols, and already call fall back and still shoot. I just hope that little scenarios like that get buffed, rather than a mechanic change to pistols.

PS: Pistols lost Assault also. No more run and gun...which is another nerf :(

 ncshooter426 wrote:
Yeah I just went down this road

The fluff wording screwed me up originally. For models like Seraphim, who have 2 pistols, they get a nerfbat in CC. They get a single attack (no bonus for dual wield) but get to shoot again in the shooting phase. That messed with my head...how a mob would smack (with one attack no less) someone in the face with the pistol, but then get to shoot them point blank a moment latter -- all just separated by phases.

The added bonus of being able to re-shoot when locked in combat isn't bad, but not really a boon to units that *only* have pistols, and already call fall back and still shoot. I just hope that little scenarios like that get buffed, rather than a mechanic change to pistols.

You forgot to include that since they have two pistols, they can Shoot Twice while in Combat and then bonk people on the head in the Fight.

 ncshooter426 wrote:
PS: Pistols lost Assault also. No more run and gun...which is another nerf :(

Technically, they never could Assault and Gun, no Weapon Type could (that option was more on the model's part)... Assault Weapons just gained a bonus that Pistols didn't get. This doesn't classify as a nerf.

Not really a nerf. Until now, all Assault X did was allow you to charge after shooting. Now you can charge regardless of what you shoot. And you can fire pistols while in melee, so...

 Charistoph wrote:

You forgot to include that since they have two pistols, they can Shoot Twice while in Combat and then bonk people on the head in the Fight.

You don't shoot twice, it just has 2 guns - which is the same as a rapid fire boltgun. Bonking on the head is rather meh with 1 attack and no melee weapon

Technically, they never could Assault and Gun, no Weapon Type could (that option was more on the model's part)... Assault Weapons just gained a bonus that Pistols didn't get. This doesn't classify as a nerf.

You could run, then shoot, holding just outside charge range on that turn. Next round, move, shoot, charge, disengage (hit and run). Rinse n' repeat.

 ncshooter426 wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

You forgot to include that since they have two pistols, they can Shoot Twice while in Combat and then bonk people on the head in the Fight.

You don't shoot twice, it just has 2 guns - which is the same as a rapid fire boltgun. Bonking on the head is rather meh with 1 attack and no melee weapon

Technically, they never could Assault and Gun, no Weapon Type could (that option was more on the model's part)... Assault Weapons just gained a bonus that Pistols didn't get. This doesn't classify as a nerf.

You could run, then shoot, holding just outside charge range on that turn. Next round, move, shoot, charge, disengage (hit and run). Rinse n' repeat.

Can't you do that now?
I don't see what the difference is. Seraphim are fly, aren't they? So they can disengage and still act normally.

@ Cthulus Spy (nice btw): Seraphim do have the fly keyword. I only have the basic rules from webpage. Where do you find the "Fly" rule allows you to disengage and act normally? I need a reference.

As a note...the Pistols ability and Seraphim was really great if you could somehow survive to another shooting phase with your 4 flamer pistols intact...of course, now that they got downgraded to a d3...not so good

edwardmyst wrote:
@ Cthulus Spy (nice btw): Seraphim do have the fly keyword. I only have the basic rules from webpage. Where do you find the "Fly" rule allows you to disengage and act normally? I need a reference.

As a note...the Pistols ability and Seraphim was really great if you could somehow survive to another shooting phase with your 4 flamer pistols intact...of course, now that they got downgraded to a d3...not so good

Its under the section for falling back. At the very end of the paragraph.
Page 3 of the Battle Primer.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Can't you do that now?
I don't see what the difference is. Seraphim are fly, aren't they? So they can disengage and still act normally.

You cannot advance and shoot with pistols, as they do not carry the Assault type.

You can disengage and shoot, but you may not charge (no hit and run ability currently) thanks to the fly keyword.

And they nerf'd our hand flamers...'cause Seraphim were OP yall.


So right now, with the reduction of close combat effectiveness, the better approach is to run them as escort for Celestine. Let her charge and tank, they pour in the shots in the shooting phase against the locked enemy. Getting them charged is...not a good idea even with the 3+ and 5++ inv (with Celestine).

Ah right, Fly still doesn't allow you to charge. I forgot about that bit.
Yeah, looks like they lost some options. I guess you can still use them as a harass / skirmishing unit?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ah right, Fly still doesn't allow you to charge. I forgot about that bit.
Yeah, looks like they lost some options. I guess you can still use them as a harass / skirmishing unit?

I've had decent luck running with Celestine on foot. Unfortunately, they dropper her deepstrike rules (detecting a pattern here? ), so the only reliable way to get them together is just footslog.

You can AoF her and her Seraphim the bonus move, so it's one way to get super distance real fast and complete the charge. Celestine is an absolute monster.

ncshooter426 wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

You forgot to include that since they have two pistols, they can Shoot Twice while in Combat and then bonk people on the head in the Fight.

You don't shoot twice, it just has 2 guns - which is the same as a rapid fire boltgun. Bonking on the head is rather meh with 1 attack and no melee weapon

And with 2 guns, you can shoot twice, once with each gun. And not, it isn't like a rapid fire boltgun because it isn't in Combat.

(As a side note, I do seem to remember the Community mentioning a To-Hit penalty when shooting multiple Weapons, but I can't seem to find it in the Primer...)

ncshooter426 wrote:

Technically, they never could Assault and Gun, no Weapon Type could (that option was more on the model's part)... Assault Weapons just gained a bonus that Pistols didn't get. This doesn't classify as a nerf.

You could run, then shoot, holding just outside charge range on that turn. Next round, move, shoot, charge, disengage (hit and run). Rinse n' repeat.

But not as part of the Pistol Weapon Type. Any ability to Run and Shoot before now was part of the carrying model's ability, not because it was a Pistol.

 Charistoph wrote:

And with 2 guns, you can shoot twice, once with each gun. And not, it isn't like a rapid fire boltgun because it isn't in Combat.

Pistol 1
Pistol 1

Grand total: 2 shots @ 12"


Bolt gun - Rapid 1

Grand total: 2 shots @ 12"


It's a bolt gun. No one splits shots on pistols.