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If I have tactical drones with a commander from his data sheet do they count as a second unit in manta strike? I can't tell :/

SittingInACorner wrote:
If I have tactical drones with a commander from his data sheet do they count as a second unit in manta strike? I can't tell :/

Yes

Tactical drones do not have manta strike, and the crisis/commanders set-up on the manta so the drones... Do something that we do not quite have rules for.

They either cannot be set-up at all when the suits strike, or they set up on the table like a normal unit.

We have rules for this. The Tactical Drones rules say the drones MUST be set up in coherency with the unit they deploy with.

So the Manta Strike rule allows the Commander to deep strike, and the drone rules insist the drones must be deployed with the Commander, in coherency.

Why they didn't clarify this is beyond me, though. They should have just given Drones Manta Strike as well, given they're flyers.

The problem, mr prins, is that the crisis/commander sets up twice: first on the manta, where the drones cannot follow the drone support rule; then on the table where they can but the waters become muddied since they are manta striking without the ability as they became a second unit when the suits set up on the manta.

In either case: suits and drones taken with them set up as 1 unit and then become separate units. So even if you just have the drones set-up when the suits hit table, they do not count as a separate unit for reserves/first turn unit set-ups.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
The problem, mr prins, is that the crisis/commander sets up twice: first on the manta, where the drones cannot follow the drone support rule; then on the table where they can but the waters become muddied since they are manta striking without the ability as they became a second unit when the suits set up on the manta.

In either case: suits and drones taken with them set up as 1 unit and then become separate units. So even if you just have the drones set-up when the suits hit table, they do not count as a separate unit for reserves/first turn unit set-ups.

The Drone Support rule is inapplicable until you can measure unit coherency (i.e. when the model actually hits the field of battle).

Really, units starting off table shouldn't be referred to as 'set up', but GW is terrible at rules writing.

Yes and no(gw being terrible at writing).

Reserve units "set-up" off table because they still count towards deployment and # of units "set-up" this is also why the drone support rule has the drones taken for another uniy "set-up" with the unit taking them and then become a separate unit. That is the not terrible writing.

The terrible writing is the seemingly forgetting that manta strike and/or drone support is a thing. Either rule could/should have stayed something about how to handle the other(should have been manta strike since drone support applies to units without it).

Drone support is not inapplicable, it is impossible to follow. Because reserves set up the trigger for drone support goes off(the unit is set up), but the effect cannot carried out(set the drones up in coherency, and they are now a separate unit).

As a fix/ house rule/ HIWPI: I posit inserting a small amount of verbiage: "When a unit is set up on the battle-field, any accompanying drones..." this would take care of the rules impossibilities.

I interpret it as being, the drones and commander are a single unit all the way until they arrive on the battlefield. Immediately after arriving on the battlefield (this is why coherency is needed, because they still arrive as 1 unit then split after) they split into 2 units.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Yes and no(gw being terrible at writing).

Reserve units "set-up" off table because they still count towards deployment and # of units "set-up" this is also why the drone support rule has the drones taken for another uniy "set-up" with the unit taking them and then become a separate unit. That is the not terrible writing.

The terrible writing is the seemingly forgetting that manta strike and/or drone support is a thing. Either rule could/should have stayed something about how to handle the other(should have been manta strike since drone support applies to units without it).

Drone support is not inapplicable, it is impossible to follow. Because reserves set up the trigger for drone support goes off(the unit is set up), but the effect cannot carried out(set the drones up in coherency, and they are now a separate unit).

As a fix/ house rule/ HIWPI: I posit inserting a small amount of verbiage: "When a unit is set up on the battle-field, any accompanying drones..." this would take care of the rules impossibilities.

I expect it to be FAQ/Errata'd soon enough regardless, I don't think too many people are going to argue that drones can't deep strike along with the unit that bought them, garbage rules aside.

Drones purchased are setup with what they purchased, THEN after they are on the table do they become a different unit.

A unit and attached Drones are considered 1 Drop.

 Talamare wrote:
Drones purchased are setup with what they purchased, THEN after they are on the table do they become a different unit.

A unit and attached Drones are considered 1 Drop.

yep - until they are set up on the table, they're wargear upgrade, not an unit on itself

 Vector Strike wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Drones purchased are setup with what they purchased, THEN after they are on the table do they become a different unit.

A unit and attached Drones are considered 1 Drop.

yep - until they are set up on the table, they're wargear upgrade, not an unit on itself

Yeah.
After they are set up; they are a separate unit.

"On Table" is an addition you both are making up whole cloth.

Wargear drones become a separate unit as soon as the unit that purchases them is set up. A Crisis/Commander unit that is going to Manta Strike is Set up on the manta; where the drones become a separate unit that cannot exist because there is not models to be within coherency thereof.

Now, remember: I did include a fix and HIWPI in posts above; but the actual RAW is impossible to follow.

And, again, No matter how you play it the Drones are not a separate unit at set-up: Drone and purchased unit are a single unit in deployment, unlike units in transports.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

Yeah.
After they are set up; they are a separate unit.

"On Table" is an addition you both are making up whole cloth.

Wargear drones become a separate unit as soon as the unit that purchases them is set up. A Crisis/Commander unit that is going to Manta Strike is Set up on the manta; where the drones become a separate unit that cannot exist because there is not models to be within coherency thereof.

Now, remember: I did include a fix and HIWPI in posts above; but the actual RAW is impossible to follow.

And, again, No matter how you play it the Drones are not a separate unit at set-up: Drone and purchased unit are a single unit in deployment, unlike units in transports.

Only when a unit is set up, does the accompanying drones need to be placed in coherency.

The part about the Manta Hold is just fluff text.

Set up in the various "deep strike reserves" methods is not fluff text. Please read the designer's notes. That set up counts as a unit set up for deployment.

Okay cool, I'm aware of the goofy manta strike but ignoring that it seems like the commander and their drones counts as one drop. Sweet

SittingInACorner wrote:
Okay cool, I'm aware of the goofy manta strike but ignoring that it seems like the commander and their drones counts as one drop. Sweet

Yes the commander and drones(or any unit that is bringing drones) count as 1 unit for deployment. The drines then act as a separate unit afterward.