Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So i am getting back into warhammer after about 3 or 4 months off for exams and such, little did i know there was a new edition and the meta has changed completely, it seems like for the next month or so, AM will be top tier. I wanted to build a detachment of space wolves for a while, consisting mostly of heavy hitting CC units, my main plan was to have six thunderwolf cavalry with a HQ and a troop choice, possibly even a wolf lord on a thunderwolf.

unfortunately i haven't got a new codex...yet - i plan on picking up the new rule book, as well as both imperium codexies tomorrow - but i want to know if the 'thunder star' strategy is even worth it now, how good are thunderwolf cavalry in close combat now?

thank you in advance - Pieoflife

TWC have been reduced in their effectiveness for the time being. They are no longer the must take unit in the appendix. Wulfen are still really good for close combat work. The challenge is in delivering them into the fight. I know quite a few players, myself included, who are gravitating towards wolf guard on bikes. They are really good right now.

Thunderwolf cavalry, while still an impressive close combat unit are now much more vulnerable to massed small arms fire and psychic heavy armies. Thunderwolves still have great saves but did not get a boost of many additional wounds, a few well timed smites dealing unsaveable mortal wounds or overwatch flamers will whittle down thunderwolves faster than in previous editions. The new hotness for space wolves seems to be dreadnought spam.

 Renesco P. Blue wrote:
Thunderwolf cavalry, while still an impressive close combat unit are now much more vulnerable to massed small arms fire and psychic heavy armies. Thunderwolves still have great saves but did not get a boost of many additional wounds, a few well timed smites dealing unsaveable mortal wounds or overwatch flamers will whittle down thunderwolves faster than in previous editions. The new hotness for space wolves seems to be dreadnought spam.

so would you suggest now to take murdefangs and normal dreadnoughts over thunderwolves? or would you suggest a mix for CC to accompany a strong Guard back line?

crouching lictor wrote:
TWC have been reduced in their effectiveness for the time being. They are no longer the must take unit in the appendix. Wulfen are still really good for close combat work. The challenge is in delivering them into the fight. I know quite a few players, myself included, who are gravitating towards wolf guard on bikes. They are really good right now.

TWC aren't less effective so much as different.
If you're looking to bring down bigger units like Knights and other Apoc level stuff they're less effective, if you're looking to kill most monsters and vehicles easily and plow into any hoard of TEQ or less expecting to erase them TWC is more capable than it was in 7th, capable of swinging five or six high strength attacks each rather than three or four, personally I never allied for invisibility so that's no big loss to me, for loadouts I'd be swapping most Storm Shields and THammers for Storm Shields and Frost Swords or pairs of Wolf Claws that are now dirt cheap. Strength six, Strength eight and Strength ten are the sweet spots for hitting on 2+ in 8th edition but by the same system we can also wound a Land Raider on 5+ with a seven point Frost Sword where last edition we'd need a twenty-five point Thunder Hammer.

As others have said though Wolf Guard Bikers are simply amazing this edition, they get dirt cheap shield, massive amounts of firepower and the two inches of mobility that the TWC seem to have lost.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

crouching lictor wrote:
TWC have been reduced in their effectiveness for the time being. They are no longer the must take unit in the appendix. Wulfen are still really good for close combat work. The challenge is in delivering them into the fight. I know quite a few players, myself included, who are gravitating towards wolf guard on bikes. They are really good right now.

TWC aren't less effective so much as different.
If you're looking to bring down bigger units like Knights and other Apoc level stuff they're less effective, if you're looking to kill most monsters and vehicles easily and plow into any hoard of TEQ or less expecting to erase them TWC is more capable than it was in 7th, capable of swinging five or six high strength attacks each rather than three or four, personally I never allied for invisibility so that's no big loss to me, for loadouts I'd be swapping most Storm Shields and THammers for Storm Shields and Frost Swords or pairs of Wolf Claws that are now dirt cheap. Strength six, Strength eight and Strength ten are the sweet spots for hitting on 2+ in 8th edition but by the same system we can also wound a Land Raider on 5+ with a seven point Frost Sword where last edition we'd need a twenty-five point Thunder Hammer.

As others have said though Wolf Guard Bikers are simply amazing this edition, they get dirt cheap shield, massive amounts of firepower and the two inches of mobility that the TWC seem to have lost.

Actually TWC only move 10" whereas bikes move 14".

I haven't tried TWC this edition but I don't think I need to. Essentially for the same points cost as before you get less movement, no fleet and significantly lower damage output (only 2-3 power weapon attacks per model). Sure you got an extra wound but with so many weapons doing multiple damage now I don't really see why you'd need to take TWC. Sure a unit backed by a Battle Leader or even a Lord on a Wolf might still be a good unit to have, you no longer need to build your strategy around them. Which is a good thing essentially, since I kinda loathe auto-picks in army lists. In 7th I never even ran the popular librarian-stars or whatever but they still did some serious work.

Wolf Guard bikes are just solid, I don't think I'm going to build another list without at least a unit of them (unless a FAQ or The Codex changes their options or cost significantly).

 Weazel wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

crouching lictor wrote:
TWC have been reduced in their effectiveness for the time being. They are no longer the must take unit in the appendix. Wulfen are still really good for close combat work. The challenge is in delivering them into the fight. I know quite a few players, myself included, who are gravitating towards wolf guard on bikes. They are really good right now.

TWC aren't less effective so much as different.
If you're looking to bring down bigger units like Knights and other Apoc level stuff they're less effective, if you're looking to kill most monsters and vehicles easily and plow into any hoard of TEQ or less expecting to erase them TWC is more capable than it was in 7th, capable of swinging five or six high strength attacks each rather than three or four, personally I never allied for invisibility so that's no big loss to me, for loadouts I'd be swapping most Storm Shields and THammers for Storm Shields and Frost Swords or pairs of Wolf Claws that are now dirt cheap. Strength six, Strength eight and Strength ten are the sweet spots for hitting on 2+ in 8th edition but by the same system we can also wound a Land Raider on 5+ with a seven point Frost Sword where last edition we'd need a twenty-five point Thunder Hammer.

As others have said though Wolf Guard Bikers are simply amazing this edition, they get dirt cheap shield, massive amounts of firepower and the two inches of mobility that the TWC seem to have lost.

Actually TWC only move 10" whereas bikes move 14".

Twelve minus two equals ten. Twelve plus two equals fourteen. Bikers seem to have picked up the mobility the TWC lost.

I haven't tried TWC this edition but I don't think I need to. Essentially for the same points cost as before you get less movement, no fleet and significantly lower damage output (only 2-3 power weapon attacks per model). Sure you got an extra wound but with so many weapons doing multiple damage now I don't really see why you'd need to take TWC. Sure a unit backed by a Battle Leader or even a Lord on a Wolf might still be a good unit to have, you no longer need to build your strategy around them. Which is a good thing essentially, since I kinda loathe auto-picks in army lists. In 7th I never even ran the popular librarian-stars or whatever but they still did some serious work.

Wolf Guard bikes are just solid, I don't think I'm going to build another list without at least a unit of them (unless a FAQ or The Codex changes their options or cost significantly).

Thunderwolves also get an extra three attacks from the Thunderwolf mount at S5, AP-1 so the mount is wounding most vehicles on a 5+ with armour rending. Good vehicle hunting unit , good infantry hunting unit, good monster hunting unit, just all round goodness.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Weazel wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

crouching lictor wrote:
TWC have been reduced in their effectiveness for the time being. They are no longer the must take unit in the appendix. Wulfen are still really good for close combat work. The challenge is in delivering them into the fight. I know quite a few players, myself included, who are gravitating towards wolf guard on bikes. They are really good right now.

TWC aren't less effective so much as different.
If you're looking to bring down bigger units like Knights and other Apoc level stuff they're less effective, if you're looking to kill most monsters and vehicles easily and plow into any hoard of TEQ or less expecting to erase them TWC is more capable than it was in 7th, capable of swinging five or six high strength attacks each rather than three or four, personally I never allied for invisibility so that's no big loss to me, for loadouts I'd be swapping most Storm Shields and THammers for Storm Shields and Frost Swords or pairs of Wolf Claws that are now dirt cheap. Strength six, Strength eight and Strength ten are the sweet spots for hitting on 2+ in 8th edition but by the same system we can also wound a Land Raider on 5+ with a seven point Frost Sword where last edition we'd need a twenty-five point Thunder Hammer.

As others have said though Wolf Guard Bikers are simply amazing this edition, they get dirt cheap shield, massive amounts of firepower and the two inches of mobility that the TWC seem to have lost.

Actually TWC only move 10" whereas bikes move 14".

Twelve minus two equals ten. Twelve plus two equals fourteen. Bikers seem to have picked up the mobility the TWC lost.

I haven't tried TWC this edition but I don't think I need to. Essentially for the same points cost as before you get less movement, no fleet and significantly lower damage output (only 2-3 power weapon attacks per model). Sure you got an extra wound but with so many weapons doing multiple damage now I don't really see why you'd need to take TWC. Sure a unit backed by a Battle Leader or even a Lord on a Wolf might still be a good unit to have, you no longer need to build your strategy around them. Which is a good thing essentially, since I kinda loathe auto-picks in army lists. In 7th I never even ran the popular librarian-stars or whatever but they still did some serious work.

Wolf Guard bikes are just solid, I don't think I'm going to build another list without at least a unit of them (unless a FAQ or The Codex changes their options or cost significantly).

Thunderwolves also get an extra three attacks from the Thunderwolf mount at S5, AP-1 so the mount is wounding most vehicles on a 5+ with armour rending. Good vehicle hunting unit , good infantry hunting unit, good monster hunting unit, just all round goodness.

I know, and bikes (with storm bolters) get 8 S4 attacks at range wounding most vehicles on a 5+ as well. But like I said, TWC are not bad, they are just not super impressive any more especially now that bikers are so darn cheerful.

Pointless comparing anything to Wolf Guard Bikers at the moment, they be making up for Space Wolves not having a TROOP Bike last edition - with interest.

I run both, if my opponent wants to stop being sprayed by the WGBikers they're going into or through the TWC and Wolf Priest screen.
TWC take the shots, usually each Wolf Priest recovers a wounded Wolf each turn, sometimes they have to recover each other though - damn Snipers.
Trying to find the better option in Dreads and Razorbacks at the moment, Razorbacks carry better Ranged Weaponry and Grey Hunters but need to have something double back to protect them. Dreads don't have the firepower but will make a mess out of damn near anything that drops on my back.

TWC are very good in 8th edition, but they're not suited for being part of a deathstar anymore.

I basically played them as anti infantry even in 7th edition, that's their role. 3 S5 AP-1 hits granted by the wolves stack with S4-5 (with frost swords) attacks made by the riders. Inculde just 1-2 thunderhammer for adding variety.

TWC are fast, have tons of attacks (2-3 base plus 3 with the beast), they can easily get benefits from other characters like battle leaders, arjac or lords and quite durable since they have 3 wounds and access to storm shields. In a list in which they're the only punchy fast unit they will struggle of course, they match better with other fast units or punchy ones like wulfen, terminators and WG bikers.

Luckily those silly deathstars full of characters, power fists and storm shields are gone now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

crouching lictor wrote:
TWC have been reduced in their effectiveness for the time being. They are no longer the must take unit in the appendix. Wulfen are still really good for close combat work. The challenge is in delivering them into the fight. I know quite a few players, myself included, who are gravitating towards wolf guard on bikes. They are really good right now.

WG bikers have a different role, they mostly are a shooty unit. In close combat they don't have as many attacks as the TWC and they're only 2W instead of 3. WG are amazing with stormbolters in order to unleash tons of firepower against hordes and they can also carry combi weapons, but I cannot see them quite punchy in close combat. TWC have 5-6 attacks each including the beasts contribution and they're more resilient.