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I'd rather command squads be tied to commanders, themselves.

I'd be happy for the medic and standard bearers to become characters in the elites section. Same for the storm trooper variants. However, making platoon standards and medic packs an upgrade for the regular squads could also work.

I'd say keep Command Squad but give em a bit more freedoms. or something like that

Command squads are too easy to kill to be worth using as anything but suicide plasma.

"Oh, you upgrade that 4 man unit of T3 1W 5+ guardsman? Yeah I shoot them off the table first turn."

Another guard player is going to nuke them with cheapo mortars right off the bat, and they'll just be dead. At least if you stick the banner or medic in an infantry squad there's an extra 6 or 7 wound buffer there.

And I don't think the character option doesn't work particularly well, because guard characters are going to be barely worth the name. What stats are a bannerman going to have, a medic? How much will they cost 20 points? Is anyone going to pay 20 points for a +1 ld bubble for guardsman? or a 1 wound per turn healing medic?

I just can't see anyone ever taking these things if you have to bring another elite slot character along to do so.

But throw them in as options for an infantry squad, and I'd probably bring the odd banner or medic.

Can confirm. Sisters players don't bother to pay 15 points for a +1ld score and ours gets a 3+ save. Nor do we bother to pay 30 points for our medic, wouldn't likely do it ofr ten...

What if Platoon Commanders were given the banners as an upgrade option? That with a slight points decrease might make platoon Commanders a more viable option when compared to company Commanders. Historically ensigns carried the standards anyway and this old fashioned approach suits the guard well.

I could see medics becoming squad upgrades.

The only way for command squads to actually function as a command squads, and not BS3+ special weapon squads, is to give them the character rule, or some other method to avoid being targeted. They're simply shockingly fragile.

That said, BS3+ special weapon squads sure are a nice thing to have.

As I said, delete the ability for Command Squads to take more than 1 special weapon, attach the entire thing to the officer, and make all 5 models have the "Character" keyword.

Company Command Section:
1 Captain, 4 Veteran Guardsmen
The Captain may take a Ranged Weapon and a Close Combat Weapon. The Captain may issue two orders each turn.
One Veteran may be upgraded to First Lieutenant. The First Lieutenant may take a Ranged Weapon and a Close Combat Weapon. The Lieutenant may issue a single order each turn, in addition to the Company Commander's two orders.
One Veteran may be upgraded to Communications Sergeant. The Communications Sergeant has a Vox Caster, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. While the Communications Sergeant is alive, Orders may be issued to any other unit with a Vox Caster, regardless of distance.
One Veteran may be upgraded to Medical Sergeant. The Medical Sergeant has a medi-pack, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. The Medical Sergeant may restore a single previously slain model to a friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY unit at the end of each movement phase.
One Veteran may be upgraded to First Sergeant. The First Sergeant has a Battle Standard, and may take a Ranged Weapon, Close Combat Weapon, and Special Weapon. Friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY units re-roll failed morale checks while within 6" of the First Sergeant.
One Veteran may be upgraded to Quartermaster. The Quartermaster may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. Units within 6" of the Quartermaster may re-roll a single roll in each shooting phase.
Any Veteran not already upgraded may be upgraded to Bodyguard, gaining an extra wound. A Bodyguard may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon
A Commissar may be added to the squad.

Platoon Command Section:
1 Second Lieutenant, 4 Guardsmen
The Second Lieutenant may take a Ranged Weapon and a Close Combat Weapon. The Second Lieutenant may issue one order each turn.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to Communications Sergeant. The Communications Sergeant has a Vox Caster, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. While the Communications Sergeant is alive, Orders may be issued to any other unit with a Vox Caster, regardless of distance.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to Medical Sergeant. The Medical Sergeant has a medi-pack, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. The Medical Sergeant may restore a single previously slain model to a friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY unit at the end of each movement phase.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to First Sergeant. The First Sergeant has a Battle Standard, and may take a Ranged Weapon, Close Combat Weapon, and Special Weapon. Friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY units re-roll failed morale checks while within 6" of the First Sergeant.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to Quartermaster. The Quartermaster may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. Units within 6" of the Quartermaster may re-roll a single roll in each shooting phase.
Any Guardsman not already upgraded may be upgraded to Bodyguard, gaining an extra wound. A Bodyguard may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon
A Commissar may be added to the squad.

That sounds pretty cool and viable. Don't see that ever happening though with the trouble they went through with characters.

I can't believe the medic upgrade is so expensive just for a 4+ on a T3 model. It's garbage.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
As I said, delete the ability for Command Squads to take more than 1 special weapon, attach the entire thing to the officer, and make all 5 models have the "Character" keyword.

Not until our Special Weapon Squads stop sucking. You keep posting this idea and I'm going to keep replying with that statement.


Also, keep your stupid Commissars out of the Guard. They got their own faction now, let them rot there.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
As I said, delete the ability for Command Squads to take more than 1 special weapon, attach the entire thing to the officer, and make all 5 models have the "Character" keyword.

Company Command Section:
1 Captain, 4 Veteran Guardsmen
The Captain may take a Ranged Weapon and a Close Combat Weapon. The Captain may issue two orders each turn.
One Veteran may be upgraded to First Lieutenant. The First Lieutenant may take a Ranged Weapon and a Close Combat Weapon. The Lieutenant may issue a single order each turn, in addition to the Company Commander's two orders.
One Veteran may be upgraded to Communications Sergeant. The Communications Sergeant has a Vox Caster, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. While the Communications Sergeant is alive, Orders may be issued to any other unit with a Vox Caster, regardless of distance.
One Veteran may be upgraded to Medical Sergeant. The Medical Sergeant has a medi-pack, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. The Medical Sergeant may restore a single previously slain model to a friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY unit at the end of each movement phase.
One Veteran may be upgraded to First Sergeant. The First Sergeant has a Battle Standard, and may take a Ranged Weapon, Close Combat Weapon, and Special Weapon. Friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY units re-roll failed morale checks while within 6" of the First Sergeant.
One Veteran may be upgraded to Quartermaster. The Quartermaster may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. Units within 6" of the Quartermaster may re-roll a single roll in each shooting phase.
Any Veteran not already upgraded may be upgraded to Bodyguard, gaining an extra wound. A Bodyguard may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon
A Commissar may be added to the squad.

Platoon Command Section:
1 Second Lieutenant, 4 Guardsmen
The Second Lieutenant may take a Ranged Weapon and a Close Combat Weapon. The Second Lieutenant may issue one order each turn.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to Communications Sergeant. The Communications Sergeant has a Vox Caster, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. While the Communications Sergeant is alive, Orders may be issued to any other unit with a Vox Caster, regardless of distance.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to Medical Sergeant. The Medical Sergeant has a medi-pack, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. The Medical Sergeant may restore a single previously slain model to a friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY unit at the end of each movement phase.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to First Sergeant. The First Sergeant has a Battle Standard, and may take a Ranged Weapon, Close Combat Weapon, and Special Weapon. Friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY units re-roll failed morale checks while within 6" of the First Sergeant.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to Quartermaster. The Quartermaster may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. Units within 6" of the Quartermaster may re-roll a single roll in each shooting phase.
Any Guardsman not already upgraded may be upgraded to Bodyguard, gaining an extra wound. A Bodyguard may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon
A Commissar may be added to the squad.

No offense, but that just seems really overly complicated. I'd rather we stick with simple solutions. Although I do really like removing range limitation on vox and making the medic an auto-heal. I'm guessing you miss the platoons from previous editions? I mostly missed out on editions 3-6, so I'm really digging the more simplistic 8th edition setup.

Why couldn't they just make the medic have a 6+FNP aura like the Krieg Quartermaster? Price him appropriately and he would be great. As said above medics are currently total garbage.

Kanluwen wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
As I said, delete the ability for Command Squads to take more than 1 special weapon, attach the entire thing to the officer, and make all 5 models have the "Character" keyword.

Not until our Special Weapon Squads stop sucking. You keep posting this idea and I'm going to keep replying with that statement.


Also, keep your stupid Commissars out of the Guard. They got their own faction now, let them rot there.

Huh? Political officers are integral to the character of the Imperial Guard.

And why do our special weapons squads suck? At least, why do they suck more than a CCS?

I'm just going to point out that CCS's are basically worthless as Special Weapons platforms anyway, the only useful special weapons platform is SCS.

argonak wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
As I said, delete the ability for Command Squads to take more than 1 special weapon, attach the entire thing to the officer, and make all 5 models have the "Character" keyword.

Company Command Section:
1 Captain, 4 Veteran Guardsmen
The Captain may take a Ranged Weapon and a Close Combat Weapon. The Captain may issue two orders each turn.
One Veteran may be upgraded to First Lieutenant. The First Lieutenant may take a Ranged Weapon and a Close Combat Weapon. The Lieutenant may issue a single order each turn, in addition to the Company Commander's two orders.
One Veteran may be upgraded to Communications Sergeant. The Communications Sergeant has a Vox Caster, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. While the Communications Sergeant is alive, Orders may be issued to any other unit with a Vox Caster, regardless of distance.
One Veteran may be upgraded to Medical Sergeant. The Medical Sergeant has a medi-pack, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. The Medical Sergeant may restore a single previously slain model to a friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY unit at the end of each movement phase.
One Veteran may be upgraded to First Sergeant. The First Sergeant has a Battle Standard, and may take a Ranged Weapon, Close Combat Weapon, and Special Weapon. Friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY units re-roll failed morale checks while within 6" of the First Sergeant.
One Veteran may be upgraded to Quartermaster. The Quartermaster may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. Units within 6" of the Quartermaster may re-roll a single roll in each shooting phase.
Any Veteran not already upgraded may be upgraded to Bodyguard, gaining an extra wound. A Bodyguard may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon
A Commissar may be added to the squad.

Platoon Command Section:
1 Second Lieutenant, 4 Guardsmen
The Second Lieutenant may take a Ranged Weapon and a Close Combat Weapon. The Second Lieutenant may issue one order each turn.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to Communications Sergeant. The Communications Sergeant has a Vox Caster, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. While the Communications Sergeant is alive, Orders may be issued to any other unit with a Vox Caster, regardless of distance.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to Medical Sergeant. The Medical Sergeant has a medi-pack, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. The Medical Sergeant may restore a single previously slain model to a friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY unit at the end of each movement phase.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to First Sergeant. The First Sergeant has a Battle Standard, and may take a Ranged Weapon, Close Combat Weapon, and Special Weapon. Friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY units re-roll failed morale checks while within 6" of the First Sergeant.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to Quartermaster. The Quartermaster may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. Units within 6" of the Quartermaster may re-roll a single roll in each shooting phase.
Any Guardsman not already upgraded may be upgraded to Bodyguard, gaining an extra wound. A Bodyguard may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon
A Commissar may be added to the squad.

No offense, but that just seems really overly complicated. I'd rather we stick with simple solutions. Although I do really like removing range limitation on vox and making the medic an auto-heal. I'm guessing you miss the platoons from previous editions? I mostly missed out on editions 3-6, so I'm really digging the more simplistic 8th edition setup.

Yes. I liked platoons.

I also like the idea of the CCS being a collection of officers, each of which grants a different buff.

 Otto von Bludd wrote:
Why couldn't they just make the medic have a 6+FNP aura like the Krieg Quartermaster? Price him appropriately and he would be great. As said above medics are currently total garbage.

This would be a lot better, and probably simpler too. And more consistent. And since I value all these things I say yes. Although there's something to be said for keeping it as it is and just making it automatic.

And yes to vox casters removing the range altogether.

I still think the standards should become an upgrade for junior officers. It gives them just that little extra purpose. Medics though...I can't decide if they should become a squad upgrade or a separate character. My instinct says squad upgrade.

Colonel Cross wrote:That sounds pretty cool and viable. Don't see that ever happening though with the trouble they went through with characters.

I can't believe the medic upgrade is so expensive just for a 4+ on a T3 model. It's garbage.

Otto von Bludd wrote:Why couldn't they just make the medic have a 6+FNP aura like the Krieg Quartermaster? Price him appropriately and he would be great. As said above medics are currently total garbage.

Yes at it is it´s garbage. Auto-restore is needed.
Please no save after save, yes an aura would be stronger than one auto-restored HP, but that save after save mechanic is one of the worst.
Perhaps make units in the auro gain +1 on their saves or something like that.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Spoiler:

As I said, delete the ability for Command Squads to take more than 1 special weapon, attach the entire thing to the officer, and make all 5 models have the "Character" keyword.

Company Command Section:
1 Captain, 4 Veteran Guardsmen
The Captain may take a Ranged Weapon and a Close Combat Weapon. The Captain may issue two orders each turn.
One Veteran may be upgraded to First Lieutenant. The First Lieutenant may take a Ranged Weapon and a Close Combat Weapon. The Lieutenant may issue a single order each turn, in addition to the Company Commander's two orders.
One Veteran may be upgraded to Communications Sergeant. The Communications Sergeant has a Vox Caster, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. While the Communications Sergeant is alive, Orders may be issued to any other unit with a Vox Caster, regardless of distance.
One Veteran may be upgraded to Medical Sergeant. The Medical Sergeant has a medi-pack, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. The Medical Sergeant may restore a single previously slain model to a friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY unit at the end of each movement phase.
One Veteran may be upgraded to First Sergeant. The First Sergeant has a Battle Standard, and may take a Ranged Weapon, Close Combat Weapon, and Special Weapon. Friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY units re-roll failed morale checks while within 6" of the First Sergeant.
One Veteran may be upgraded to Quartermaster. The Quartermaster may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. Units within 6" of the Quartermaster may re-roll a single roll in each shooting phase.
Any Veteran not already upgraded may be upgraded to Bodyguard, gaining an extra wound. A Bodyguard may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon
A Commissar may be added to the squad.

Platoon Command Section:
1 Second Lieutenant, 4 Guardsmen
The Second Lieutenant may take a Ranged Weapon and a Close Combat Weapon. The Second Lieutenant may issue one order each turn.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to Communications Sergeant. The Communications Sergeant has a Vox Caster, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. While the Communications Sergeant is alive, Orders may be issued to any other unit with a Vox Caster, regardless of distance.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to Medical Sergeant. The Medical Sergeant has a medi-pack, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. The Medical Sergeant may restore a single previously slain model to a friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY unit at the end of each movement phase.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to First Sergeant. The First Sergeant has a Battle Standard, and may take a Ranged Weapon, Close Combat Weapon, and Special Weapon. Friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY units re-roll failed morale checks while within 6" of the First Sergeant.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to Quartermaster. The Quartermaster may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. Units within 6" of the Quartermaster may re-roll a single roll in each shooting phase.
Any Guardsman not already upgraded may be upgraded to Bodyguard, gaining an extra wound. A Bodyguard may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon
A Commissar may be added to the squad.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
As I said, delete the ability for Command Squads to take more than 1 special weapon, attach the entire thing to the officer, and make all 5 models have the "Character" keyword.

Company Command Section:
1 Captain, 4 Veteran Guardsmen
The Captain may take a Ranged Weapon and a Close Combat Weapon. The Captain may issue two orders each turn.
One Veteran may be upgraded to First Lieutenant. The First Lieutenant may take a Ranged Weapon and a Close Combat Weapon. The Lieutenant may issue a single order each turn, in addition to the Company Commander's two orders.
One Veteran may be upgraded to Communications Sergeant. The Communications Sergeant has a Vox Caster, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. While the Communications Sergeant is alive, Orders may be issued to any other unit with a Vox Caster, regardless of distance.
One Veteran may be upgraded to Medical Sergeant. The Medical Sergeant has a medi-pack, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. The Medical Sergeant may restore a single previously slain model to a friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY unit at the end of each movement phase.
One Veteran may be upgraded to First Sergeant. The First Sergeant has a Battle Standard, and may take a Ranged Weapon, Close Combat Weapon, and Special Weapon. Friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY units re-roll failed morale checks while within 6" of the First Sergeant.
One Veteran may be upgraded to Quartermaster. The Quartermaster may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. Units within 6" of the Quartermaster may re-roll a single roll in each shooting phase.
Any Veteran not already upgraded may be upgraded to Bodyguard, gaining an extra wound. A Bodyguard may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon
A Commissar may be added to the squad.

Platoon Command Section:
1 Second Lieutenant, 4 Guardsmen
The Second Lieutenant may take a Ranged Weapon and a Close Combat Weapon. The Second Lieutenant may issue one order each turn.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to Communications Sergeant. The Communications Sergeant has a Vox Caster, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. While the Communications Sergeant is alive, Orders may be issued to any other unit with a Vox Caster, regardless of distance.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to Medical Sergeant. The Medical Sergeant has a medi-pack, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. The Medical Sergeant may restore a single previously slain model to a friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY unit at the end of each movement phase.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to First Sergeant. The First Sergeant has a Battle Standard, and may take a Ranged Weapon, Close Combat Weapon, and Special Weapon. Friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY units re-roll failed morale checks while within 6" of the First Sergeant.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to Quartermaster. The Quartermaster may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. Units within 6" of the Quartermaster may re-roll a single roll in each shooting phase.
Any Guardsman not already upgraded may be upgraded to Bodyguard, gaining an extra wound. A Bodyguard may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon
A Commissar may be added to the squad.

Why is there no option for Heavy Weapons?

vipoid wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
As I said, delete the ability for Command Squads to take more than 1 special weapon, attach the entire thing to the officer, and make all 5 models have the "Character" keyword.

Company Command Section:
1 Captain, 4 Veteran Guardsmen
The Captain may take a Ranged Weapon and a Close Combat Weapon. The Captain may issue two orders each turn.
One Veteran may be upgraded to First Lieutenant. The First Lieutenant may take a Ranged Weapon and a Close Combat Weapon. The Lieutenant may issue a single order each turn, in addition to the Company Commander's two orders.
One Veteran may be upgraded to Communications Sergeant. The Communications Sergeant has a Vox Caster, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. While the Communications Sergeant is alive, Orders may be issued to any other unit with a Vox Caster, regardless of distance.
One Veteran may be upgraded to Medical Sergeant. The Medical Sergeant has a medi-pack, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. The Medical Sergeant may restore a single previously slain model to a friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY unit at the end of each movement phase.
One Veteran may be upgraded to First Sergeant. The First Sergeant has a Battle Standard, and may take a Ranged Weapon, Close Combat Weapon, and Special Weapon. Friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY units re-roll failed morale checks while within 6" of the First Sergeant.
One Veteran may be upgraded to Quartermaster. The Quartermaster may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. Units within 6" of the Quartermaster may re-roll a single roll in each shooting phase.
Any Veteran not already upgraded may be upgraded to Bodyguard, gaining an extra wound. A Bodyguard may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon
A Commissar may be added to the squad.

Platoon Command Section:
1 Second Lieutenant, 4 Guardsmen
The Second Lieutenant may take a Ranged Weapon and a Close Combat Weapon. The Second Lieutenant may issue one order each turn.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to Communications Sergeant. The Communications Sergeant has a Vox Caster, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. While the Communications Sergeant is alive, Orders may be issued to any other unit with a Vox Caster, regardless of distance.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to Medical Sergeant. The Medical Sergeant has a medi-pack, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. The Medical Sergeant may restore a single previously slain model to a friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY unit at the end of each movement phase.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to First Sergeant. The First Sergeant has a Battle Standard, and may take a Ranged Weapon, Close Combat Weapon, and Special Weapon. Friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY units re-roll failed morale checks while within 6" of the First Sergeant.
One Guardsman may be upgraded to Quartermaster. The Quartermaster may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. Units within 6" of the Quartermaster may re-roll a single roll in each shooting phase.
Any Guardsman not already upgraded may be upgraded to Bodyguard, gaining an extra wound. A Bodyguard may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon
A Commissar may be added to the squad.

Why is there no option for Heavy Weapons?

Because a lascannon you can't shoot at would be OP.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
As I said, delete the ability for Command Squads to take more than 1 special weapon, attach the entire thing to the officer, and make all 5 models have the "Character" keyword.

Not until our Special Weapon Squads stop sucking. You keep posting this idea and I'm going to keep replying with that statement.

And why do our special weapons squads suck? At least, why do they suck more than a CCS?

I'm just going to point out that CCS's are basically worthless as Special Weapons platforms anyway, the only useful special weapons platform is SCS.

I agree that SCS are better special weapons units than both but i´m really suprised that you ask why SWS suck. 6 models and only 3 can take weapons and then they hit only at 4+.
Such a squad simply has to consists only of veterans and of course everyone needs to wield a special weapon.
And if your version of the CCS comes true, the SWS also need a Vox options.
CCS and SWS took the most hit with with loosing the firepoints on the chimera. Without a transport with a firedeck those units will die the turn they disembark.

I was more observing that the CCS isn't particularly magically better than the SWS. They're virtually identical, and both not very useful.

I would probably change it to 4 Guardsmen with Special Weapons and 1 Sergeant, with one Guardsman with Special Weapon able to upgrade to also carry a Vox Caster.
I would also add the option for one of the Heavy Weapons Teams in a Heavy Weapons Squad to have a Vox.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

vipoid wrote:
Why is there no option for Heavy Weapons?

Because a lascannon you can't shoot at would be OP.

So it's neither realistic nor useful. It's just an arbitrary tax on IG HQs. Fantastic.

 vipoid wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

vipoid wrote:
Why is there no option for Heavy Weapons?

Because a lascannon you can't shoot at would be OP.

So it's neither realistic nor useful. It's just an arbitrary tax on IG HQs. Fantastic.

I don't look at it last way. I think it's a fluffy way to make the useless guys useful and give them protection with the entire blob as a Character. I tried to make their effects definitely desirable to have, so it's not a useless block. After all it's not a bad deal if you actually want a stack of buffs.

I guess it's not super terriblly OP, actually. With a base unit cost of 55 points, and losing out of two supporting officers to get a Lascannon for 20 points, that's not exactly the same sort of thing as 40 sanctioned psykers casting Smite.

Company Command Section:
1 Captain, 4 Veteran Guardsmen
The Captain may take a Ranged Weapon and a Close Combat Weapon. The Captain may issue two orders each turn.
One Veteran may be replaced with a First Lieutenant. The First Lieutenant may take a Ranged Weapon and a Close Combat Weapon. The Lieutenant may issue a single order each turn, in addition to the Company Commander's two orders.
One Veteran may be replaced with a Communications Sergeant. The Communications Sergeant has a Vox Caster, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. While the Communications Sergeant is alive, Orders may be issued to any other unit with a Vox Caster, regardless of distance.
One Veteran may be replaced with a Medical Sergeant. The Medical Sergeant has a medi-pack, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. The Medical Sergeant may restore a single previously slain model to a friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY unit at the end of each movement phase.
One Veteran may be replaced with a First Sergeant. The First Sergeant has a Battle Standard, and may take a Ranged Weapon, Close Combat Weapon, and Special Weapon. Friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY units re-roll failed morale checks while within 6" of the First Sergeant.
One Veteran may be replaced with a Quartermaster. The Quartermaster may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. Friendly <Regiment> units within 6" of the Quartermaster may re-roll a single roll in each shooting phase.
Any Veteran not already upgraded may be upgraded to Bodyguard, gaining an extra wound. A Bodyguard may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon
Two Veterans not already upgraded may be formed into a Veteran Heavy Weapons Team. The Veteran Heavy Weapons Team has 2 wounds, 2 Lasguns, and must take a Heavy Weapon.
A Commissar may be added to the squad.

Platoon Command Section:
1 Second Lieutenant, 4 Guardsmen
The Second Lieutenant may take a Ranged Weapon and a Close Combat Weapon. The Second Lieutenant may issue one order each turn.
One Guardsman may be replaced with a Communications Sergeant. The Communications Sergeant has a Vox Caster, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. While the Communications Sergeant is alive, Orders may be issued to any other unit with a Vox Caster, regardless of distance.
One Guardsman may be replaced with a Medical Sergeant. The Medical Sergeant has a medi-pack, and may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. The Medical Sergeant may restore a single previously slain model to a friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY unit at the end of each movement phase.
One Guardsman may be replaced with a First Sergeant. The First Sergeant has a Battle Standard, and may take a Ranged Weapon, Close Combat Weapon, and Special Weapon. Friendly <Regiment> INFANTRY units re-roll failed morale checks while within 6" of the First Sergeant.
One Guardsman may be replaced with a Quartermaster. The Quartermaster may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon. Friendly <Regiment> units within 6" of the Quartermaster may re-roll a single roll in each shooting phase.
Any Guardsman not already upgraded may be upgraded to Bodyguard, gaining an extra wound. A Bodyguard may take a Ranged Weapon and Close Combat Weapon.
Two Guardsmen not already upgraded may be formed into a Heavy Weapons Team. The Heavy Weapons Team has 2 wounds, 2 Lasguns, and must take a Heavy Weapon.
A Commissar may be added to the squad.

I'd love if the codex reflected the fact that the Guard is the most varied fignting force in the galaxy, reflected by either regiments, or by specialisations (Chapter tactics style). Last few editions it was the SM who are the most varied force avalible. Ideally a chart that would allow you to create your own regiment bonuses and drawbacks.

Also, tons of various relic wargear for Commanders and Tank commanders.

Return of Fire Ports for Chimeras (2 like in previous, maybe with -1 to hit if the vehicle had moved), Doctrines for Veterans. (Sentries have -1 being hit, Grenadiers have +1Sv, maybe add paratroopers instead of demolitions, idk, many posiblilties)

Buff Vanquishers (Reroll for wound, 2D6 damage or 3D3 damage instead of roll 2 and pick the highest) Vanquisher is the ultimate tank killer for the Guard, not a unreliable paint scratcher as it is today, outprformed by every other weapon. (may corellate with tank commander relic wargear)
Make Exterminators Heavy 8 or 6 at least, Heavy 4 is too weak. Or give it a reroll misses like it had last edition.
Eradicator could make 2D6 shots but have 1D, as a thing for blasting infantry in cover to hell...

If you could shoot out of Chimeras, their high cost would probably be worthwhile.

Good idea for the tanks. A vanquisher should stand a chance of wrecking a tank in one shot, and eradicators should be an infantry buster. Eight shots for an exterminator sounds good too.

Actually, how's this for an idea: all four regular Russ tanks can inflict a possible 18 damage on the target unit, but how they do it is different. The regular russ has d6 attacks that do d3 damage, while the vanquisher has 1 attack that does 3d6 damage (no reroll), the exterminator has 9 attacks with 2 damage, and the eradicator has 3D6 attacks that do 1 damage. Bump the eradicators range up to 48 and I think the tanks main guns would be in a good place. Having said that, I'd still prefer if the blast weapons had a fixed number of attacks (6 and 18 respectively). The reroll should be
the variable.

Hawky wrote:I'd love if the codex reflected the fact that the Guard is the most varied fignting force in the galaxy, reflected by either regiments, or by specialisations (Chapter tactics style). Last few editions it was the SM who are the most varied force avalible. Ideally a chart that would allow you to create your own regiment bonuses and drawbacks.

The problem we have with the current IG codex is that it has been built on the basis of the whines of the Marine players. Dont believe me? Well, look up some of the threads from last year/early this year. Guard players where talking about how we wanted a varied codex with plenty of flexibility, but Marine players kept on butting in to the threads and telling us how our army should be "masses of faceless bods, hordes of basic infantry drowning the enemy in numbers, Marines are the elite army so you cant be".
Ironically we now have threads full of those self same players whining on about how IG numbers are overpowered and Guard players should not be able to bring so many models, which is a vast heap of hypocritical irony. On a side note, the salt industry is apparently very profitable.

Also, tons of various relic wargear for Commanders and Tank commanders.

Please yes! Something that gave us an invun save, or expanded the number of orders available, Artificer Hull's for that extra wound......

Return of Fire Ports for Chimeras (2 like in previous, maybe with -1 to hit if the vehicle had moved), Doctrines for Veterans. (Sentries have -1 being hit, Grenadiers have +1Sv, maybe add paratroopers instead of demolitions, idk, many posiblilties)

Yes to Chimeras, they need a lot of love. As for doctrines, we need to see them return for Veterans along with a points decrease for Veteran units. As things stand Veterans are useless. Add in paratroops instead of replacing Demolitions with it though - I really miss my Sturmpioneers from 7th.

Buff Vanquishers (Reroll for wound, 2D6 damage or 3D3 damage instead of roll 2 and pick the highest) Vanquisher is the ultimate tank killer for the Guard, not a unreliable paint scratcher as it is today, outprformed by every other weapon. (may corellate with tank commander relic wargear)
Make Exterminators Heavy 8 or 6 at least, Heavy 4 is too weak. Or give it a reroll misses like it had last edition.
Eradicator could make 2D6 shots but have 1D, as a thing for blasting infantry in cover to hell...

Yes to all of the above, Eradicators need to have at least 8 shots, and given that it is the premier tank destroyer in the fluff the Vanquisher really flops on the table top.

Colonel Cross wrote:If you could shoot out of Chimeras, their high cost would probably be worthwhile.

Not really - even with 2 firepoits they would be naff. Chimeras need some way to avoid the penalty for shooting after they move, they need the return of the Lasgun arrays from 7th, they need the firepoints from the hatch, they need to be amphibious again and finally they need a points reduction. All together that might just be enough to make them viable once more.

Future War Cultist wrote:A vanquisher should stand a chance of wrecking a tank in one shot, and eradicators should be an infantry buster.

Precisely, although the Exterminator should be good against infantry and light vehicles. The Punisher should be a dedicated infantry killer.

I would also say that Doctrines have to return. The marines (both loyalist and traitor) have their own version and we're supposed to be even more varied than them.

Variation would be lovely. Being able to run something other than 'massed blobs of mans' would be even better.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I would also say that Doctrines have to return. The marines (both loyalist and traitor) have their own version and we're supposed to be even more varied than them.

No, they do not have anything like "Doctrines".

I'm sorry but every time I hear someone say that things like Chapter Traits are similar to Doctrines it bothers me immeasurably. Doctrines were a huge deal that no army has really replicated since.

It affected the way your army was built(Ratlings, Stormtroopers, Ogryn, Heavy Weapon Squads, Techpriests, Special Weapon Squads, Veterans, and Rough Riders were locked out and took up Doctrine slots for example), it affected the way your basic infantry were built(Warrior Weapons mandated you take CCW+Laspistols in lieu of Lasguns, Carapace gave them a 4+ save, Cybernetic Enhancement gave them an Invulnerable save), and it affected the way the army played(rerolling hit rolls of 1s via Sharpshooter, Iron Discipline's benefits, etc...)

You guys really need to know that Doctrines were cool...but they were also exceedingly restrictive.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I would also say that Doctrines have to return. The marines (both loyalist and traitor) have their own version and we're supposed to be even more varied than them.

No, they do not have anything like "Doctrines".

I'm sorry but every time I hear someone say that things like Chapter Traits are similar to Doctrines it bothers me immeasurably. Doctrines were a huge deal that no army has really replicated since.

It affected the way your army was built(Ratlings, Stormtroopers, Ogryn, Heavy Weapon Squads, Techpriests, Special Weapon Squads, Veterans, and Rough Riders were locked out and took up Doctrine slots for example), it affected the way your basic infantry were built(Warrior Weapons mandated you take CCW+Laspistols in lieu of Lasguns, Carapace gave them a 4+ save, Cybernetic Enhancement gave them an Invulnerable save), and it affected the way the army played(rerolling hit rolls of 1s via Sharpshooter, Iron Discipline's benefits, etc...)

You guys really need to know that Doctrines were cool...but they were also exceedingly restrictive.

I think they where on about Veteran Doctrines from the last couple of books.
That said I want the army wide ones to come back.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I would also say that Doctrines have to return. The marines (both loyalist and traitor) have their own version and we're supposed to be even more varied than them.

No, they do not have anything like "Doctrines".

I'm sorry but every time I hear someone say that things like Chapter Traits are similar to Doctrines it bothers me immeasurably. Doctrines were a huge deal that no army has really replicated since.

It affected the way your army was built(Ratlings, Stormtroopers, Ogryn, Heavy Weapon Squads, Techpriests, Special Weapon Squads, Veterans, and Rough Riders were locked out and took up Doctrine slots for example), it affected the way your basic infantry were built(Warrior Weapons mandated you take CCW+Laspistols in lieu of Lasguns, Carapace gave them a 4+ save, Cybernetic Enhancement gave them an Invulnerable save), and it affected the way the army played(rerolling hit rolls of 1s via Sharpshooter, Iron Discipline's benefits, etc...)

You guys really need to know that Doctrines were cool...but they were also exceedingly restrictive.

I think they where on about Veteran Doctrines from the last couple of books.
That said I want the army wide ones to come back.

Honestly?

I don't want either one back. They became crutches.

More Tanks, Better tanks, more Effective tanks (BATTLECANNON NOT EFFECTIVE AS BEFORE! SADFACE).

I want a tank larger than a Baneblade. Like....

Leman Russ -> Malcador -> Macharius > Baneblade -> Something bigger -> EVEN BIGGER TANK -> Levthiathan -> Capitolis Imperialis -> Battleship tank on par with an Emperor CLass Titan because TANKS.