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In a game earlier today I had surrounded a chaos rhino with a squad of guardsmen completely blocking his troops from disembarking. The vehicle explodes and kills 3 guardsmen, leaving a small opening for him to disembark.

Does the unit disembark before or after the model is removed, and if he cannot disembark from the transport are all his models killed?

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
In a game earlier today I had surrounded a chaos rhino with a squad of guardsmen completely blocking his troops from disembarking. The vehicle explodes and kills 3 guardsmen, leaving a small opening for him to disembark.

Does the unit disembark before or after the model is removed, and if he cannot disembark from the transport are all his models killed?

Before. The rules are explicit in the ordering here, and there is even an official FAQ for it in the rulebook FAQ. Plus if you removed the transport before, how would you ever measure 3" from the hull, since it doesn't exist?

Q: How do transports work with regards to disembarking units upon the transport’s destruction?
A: Disembarking from a destroyed transport operates as follows:
1. If the transport has the Explodes ability (or equivalent) roll to see if it explodes and resolve any resulting damage to nearby units.*
2. All models inside immediately disembark following the standard rules for disembarkation.
3. Roll a number of D6 equal to the number of models disembarked in this fashion.
4. Each result of a 1 yields a slain model, and must be allocated to one of the models which disembarked; the controlling player may choose which model.
5. Remove the destroyed transport model.
* Note that if the transport does explode, units being transported are not affected as they are not yet on the battlefield.

You forgot to mention that models who cannot disembark are removed from play.

Ok thanks for the replies!

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:


Does the unit disembark before or after the model is removed, and if he cannot disembark from the transport are all his models killed?

Query: by "the model is removed" are you meaning the 3 dead guardsmen, or the rhino.

The above answers are correct for the rhino; but the guardsmen killed in the explosion are removed before the unit disembarks.

Also note that disembarkation does not require a path from the transport to the within(and not wholly within, so just a sliver of base works) 3" ofthe transport: thus it is fairly hard to remove the complete possibility of disembarking(you can still force a loss of models pretty easy but a TPK is really hard without several units or large units of larger based models.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:


Does the unit disembark before or after the model is removed, and if he cannot disembark from the transport are all his models killed?

Query: by "the model is removed" are you meaning the 3 dead guardsmen, or the rhino.

The above answers are correct for the rhino; but the guardsmen killed in the explosion are removed before the unit disembarks.

Also note that disembarkation does not require a path from the transport to the within(and not wholly within, so just a sliver of base works) 3" ofthe transport: thus it is fairly hard to remove the complete possibility of disembarking(you can still force a loss of models pretty easy but a TPK is really hard without several units or large units of larger based models.

Not correct. By the wording of the rules you disembark everyone, THEN roll for models killed in the explosion. Not before placing the models. This is because they need to be on the table for the rules to affect them, so the rules tell you to put them on the table. We tend to skip that and do it first for ease, but if hemmed in on all sides it's important to do it first as it could force extra casualties.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:


Does the unit disembark before or after the model is removed, and if he cannot disembark from the transport are all his models killed?

Query: by "the model is removed" are you meaning the 3 dead guardsmen, or the rhino.

The above answers are correct for the rhino; but the guardsmen killed in the explosion are removed before the unit disembarks.

Also note that disembarkation does not require a path from the transport to the within(and not wholly within, so just a sliver of base works) 3" ofthe transport: thus it is fairly hard to remove the complete possibility of disembarking(you can still force a loss of models pretty easy but a TPK is really hard without several units or large units of larger based models.

Not correct. By the wording of the rules you disembark everyone, THEN roll for models killed in the explosion. Not before placing the models. This is because they need to be on the table for the rules to affect them, so the rules tell you to put them on the table. We tend to skip that and do it first for ease, but if hemmed in on all sides it's important to do it first as it could force extra casualties.

Please, read the posts a little more carefully; and you are wrong.

Guardsmen cannot go into a rhino.

The guardsmen were surrounding the rhino when it exploded.

Explodes happens before models disembark, so the guardsmen die before chaos marines get out of the rhino; the chaos marines then get out, losing any models that cannot be placed, then roll for destroyed transport losses(embarked models do not take explodes damage)

BaconCatBug even posted the FAQ response.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:


Does the unit disembark before or after the model is removed, and if he cannot disembark from the transport are all his models killed?

Query: by "the model is removed" are you meaning the 3 dead guardsmen, or the rhino.

The above answers are correct for the rhino; but the guardsmen killed in the explosion are removed before the unit disembarks.

Also note that disembarkation does not require a path from the transport to the within(and not wholly within, so just a sliver of base works) 3" ofthe transport: thus it is fairly hard to remove the complete possibility of disembarking(you can still force a loss of models pretty easy but a TPK is really hard without several units or large units of larger based models.

but you need to stay outside of 1" from enemy models, so that could make it a little harder

25mm base models to surround + 1" required distance. Small based models need to surround from more than an inch from the transport, and then you have circular bases that make those 1" from them into cirles of denial, meaning that those circles would have to overlap requiring a coherency spacing of 1-1.5" so now you have the size & shape of a given transport, increased in all directions by the greater than 1"(and up to 1.5"), subtracting out some of the coherency spacing. Loss of any 1 model will open up space for 2 to disembark. Luckily you should be able to space out lost models to only allow 2 models to survive disembarking as that is the only way the unit can remain in coherency.

Yeah there is some geometry involved.

He managed to get an explodes result with a re-roll, I think if I had been a bit more selective in taking the 3 guardsmen that died I could have denied his squad from exiting and killing at least most of them as I believe the rule states that its models and not the unit that are removed.

Yes, just the models that cannot disembark get killed. Any that can legally be set up survive.