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 Grimgold wrote:

 Nym wrote:

 Arandmoor wrote:
Make Necrons immune to morale. They're immortal robots when they're self aware, and immortal automatons the rest of the time. What, exactly, do they have to fear?

Sorry to interrupt, but... By this account, EVERYTHING in 40k should be immune to Morale, except Guardsmen and Gretchins. And guess what ? It's how it was in the last 3 or 4 editions. And it sucked.

The average warrior has just enough intelligence and memory to fight and follow orders, all other mortal instincts were taken from them during transference. So fear doesn't really factor into it, at least from a fluff perspective. Rules wise this is reflected in the highest leadership value for any troop. With that said I agree with your general thought though, in 5th thru 7th morale was more or less a joke, and that while it might make sense from a fluff perspective, leaving morale in place just makes for a better game.

Of course not everything should be immune to morale, but even in 8th SOME things are. Given the fluff and the facts behind necron warriors they are the unit in game that has most reason to be immune to morale, but they aren't, whilst things that do have minds are.

If mindless immortal self resurrecting machines aren't immune to morale then nothing else should be.

 Grimgold wrote:


A cryptek has a 3” range on his two auras, he literally has to be within consolidation distance (and he has the weakest statline for an IC in the necrons) for units to benefit from his aura. I can’t even fathom who thought that was a good idea, it has to have been a leftover from a prior iteration of the rules that no ever one bothered to update.

Honest question - would you prefer if a cryptek's 5++ aura, say, only protected units that were entirely within 9" of him? Because that's exactly how ork kustom force fields work, and I can't tell if it's better or not. My only gauge is a painboy, and I honestly feel like his 3" aura is a bit harder to use at times without cheesy conga lines.

zacharia wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:

 Nym wrote:

 Arandmoor wrote:
Make Necrons immune to morale. They're immortal robots when they're self aware, and immortal automatons the rest of the time. What, exactly, do they have to fear?

Sorry to interrupt, but... By this account, EVERYTHING in 40k should be immune to Morale, except Guardsmen and Gretchins. And guess what ? It's how it was in the last 3 or 4 editions. And it sucked.

The average warrior has just enough intelligence and memory to fight and follow orders, all other mortal instincts were taken from them during transference. So fear doesn't really factor into it, at least from a fluff perspective. Rules wise this is reflected in the highest leadership value for any troop. With that said I agree with your general thought though, in 5th thru 7th morale was more or less a joke, and that while it might make sense from a fluff perspective, leaving morale in place just makes for a better game.

Of course not everything should be immune to morale, but even in 8th SOME things are. Given the fluff and the facts behind necron warriors they are the unit in game that has most reason to be immune to morale, but they aren't, whilst things that do have minds are.

If mindless immortal self resurrecting machines aren't immune to morale then nothing else should be.

What's weird is that a few Necron units actually lost Fearless in the transition to 8th. Scarabs, Spyders and Wraiths all used to be Fearless on account of being near-mindless or more autonomous (or something like that). Now though, even bloody scarabs will run away.

But yeah, I really think Necrons could do with at least some protection from morale - even if it was like Synapse and only worked when they were near a lord/overlord/destroyer lord model.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:


A cryptek has a 3” range on his two auras, he literally has to be within consolidation distance (and he has the weakest statline for an IC in the necrons) for units to benefit from his aura. I can’t even fathom who thought that was a good idea, it has to have been a leftover from a prior iteration of the rules that no ever one bothered to update.

Honest question - would you prefer if a cryptek's 5++ aura, say, only protected units that were entirely within 9" of him? Because that's exactly how ork kustom force fields work, and I can't tell if it's better or not. My only gauge is a painboy, and I honestly feel like his 3" aura is a bit harder to use at times without cheesy conga lines.

Hmm, I feel like that is how all auras should work, but it was changed for the sake of simplicity. I don't think I'd have a strong opinion either way, as they both kind of suck compared to everyones elses auras.

The first problem I noticed with the Necron army is definitely our lack in anti-tank. We used to be really good with anti-tank now I feel we can barely kill a Rhino sometimes. My last game I actually couldn't kill a Rhino (wasn't bad plays just really bad at rolling that game). I know we have Heavy Destroyers and DDAs although they are very expensive. I really liked DDAs in 7th although in 8th relying on D3 shots hurts badly. DDAs do require 10 models to have D6 shots, although the Vindicator requires only 5 models in a squad. The Vindicators have a much shorter range although we can't move or lose the firepower. Having mortal wounds with gauss would be nice but something I would like to see return is the option for Eldritch Lances for Crypteks. Even if the lances cost the same as a Lascannon, I would be happy with that. If they didn't want Crypteks to become more auto include as they are now, give it to a different model like a Lord and give us a reason to take them (wouldn't make sense but still an idea).

Crixia36 wrote:
The first problem I noticed with the Necron army is definitely our lack in anti-tank. We used to be really good with anti-tank now I feel we can barely kill a Rhino sometimes. My last game I actually couldn't kill a Rhino (wasn't bad plays just really bad at rolling that game). I know we have Heavy Destroyers and DDAs although they are very expensive. I really liked DDAs in 7th although in 8th relying on D3 shots hurts badly. DDAs do require 10 models to have D6 shots, although the Vindicator requires only 5 models in a squad. The Vindicators have a much shorter range although we can't move or lose the firepower. Having mortal wounds with gauss would be nice but something I would like to see return is the option for Eldritch Lances for Crypteks. Even if the lances cost the same as a Lascannon, I would be happy with that. If they didn't want Crypteks to become more auto include as they are now, give it to a different model like a Lord and give us a reason to take them (wouldn't make sense but still an idea).

We actually have some of the best anti-tank in the game, its just all in FW. Try proxying some sentry pylons, or the big gun, or the tesseract ark. All very strong. The centipedes and aranthracites are also good at killing tanks, albeit more fragile. DDA are still very good, add a few with a stalker usually is enough anti tank for most armies. No other army can one shot a knight for 500 points from a single weapon.

 Klowny wrote:

Crixia36 wrote:
The first problem I noticed with the Necron army is definitely our lack in anti-tank. We used to be really good with anti-tank now I feel we can barely kill a Rhino sometimes. My last game I actually couldn't kill a Rhino (wasn't bad plays just really bad at rolling that game). I know we have Heavy Destroyers and DDAs although they are very expensive. I really liked DDAs in 7th although in 8th relying on D3 shots hurts badly. DDAs do require 10 models to have D6 shots, although the Vindicator requires only 5 models in a squad. The Vindicators have a much shorter range although we can't move or lose the firepower. Having mortal wounds with gauss would be nice but something I would like to see return is the option for Eldritch Lances for Crypteks. Even if the lances cost the same as a Lascannon, I would be happy with that. If they didn't want Crypteks to become more auto include as they are now, give it to a different model like a Lord and give us a reason to take them (wouldn't make sense but still an idea).

We actually have some of the best anti-tank in the game, its just all in FW. Try proxying some sentry pylons, or the big gun, or the tesseract ark. All very strong. The centipedes and aranthracites are also good at killing tanks, albeit more fragile. DDA are still very good, add a few with a stalker usually is enough anti tank for most armies. No other army can one shot a knight for 500 points from a single weapon.

I don't use any FW, that is probably my problem. I've used a DDA a few times and it never really performed, even with the stalker, it just seemed ok. I would averagely get 2 shots and miss with 1 either in shooting or wounding (Even with the stalker). Maybe I need to take 2 of them.

Yea once you have two or more they start getting better. 2 hits on average is good. Sentry pylons are a cheap way to get D6 36" melta shots

Necrons used to have great antitank, now they struggle with it.

Necrons used to be the most survivable, now Death Guard are.

Tesla was the best on overwatch, now it's worse than it's normal profile.

Crypteks had tons of amazing options, now they do not, but are practically a required default upgrade.

Transcendent C'Tan used to be amazing....etc..

They have systematically nerfed everything that was exceptional in the Necron Army, over the last 2 editions, and what have they given them in return ?

We absolutely didn't have the best anti-tank and Im sure you meant Tesla for Overwatch, but I overall agree with the rest.

Also remember it's because Necrons are super powerful and broken and need those nerfs!

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
We absolutely didn't have the best anti-tank and Im sure you meant Tesla for Overwatch, but I overall agree with the rest.

Also remember it's because Necrons are super powerful and broken and need those nerfs!

You are correct. I edited my post to reflect.

Don't get me wrong, TP'ing across the board and melting vehicles with haywire, may have been a bit much... but every weapon in the game has the equivalent of the old Gauss special rule, and Necrons get a -1AP Bolter. Oh wait, space Primaris Marines have that too...

Tesla for overwatch was just a bug that many chose to consider as a feature. It never really defined competitive Necron anyway.

morgoth wrote:
Tesla for overwatch was just a bug that many chose to consider as a feature. It never really defined competitive Necron anyway.

It was a feature because it wasn't as strong as some people chose to believe.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

morgoth wrote:
Tesla for overwatch was just a bug that many chose to consider as a feature. It never really defined competitive Necron anyway.

It was a feature because it wasn't as strong as some people chose to believe.

It was an obvious mismatch between a codex rule written for another edition and a BRB rule of the then current edition.

That it was available on the most undercosted flyer ever only made it worse.

morgoth wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

morgoth wrote:
Tesla for overwatch was just a bug that many chose to consider as a feature. It never really defined competitive Necron anyway.

It was a feature because it wasn't as strong as some people chose to believe.

It was an obvious mismatch between a codex rule written for another edition and a BRB rule of the then current edition.

That it was available on the most undercosted flyer ever only made it worse.

It was only undercosted until everyone started getting AA. Tournament wins for Necrons went down little by little as that happened. THEN it was just a pretty great unit.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

morgoth wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

morgoth wrote:
Tesla for overwatch was just a bug that many chose to consider as a feature. It never really defined competitive Necron anyway.

It was a feature because it wasn't as strong as some people chose to believe.

It was an obvious mismatch between a codex rule written for another edition and a BRB rule of the then current edition.

That it was available on the most undercosted flyer ever only made it worse.

It was only undercosted until everyone started getting AA. Tournament wins for Necrons went down little by little as that happened. THEN it was just a pretty great unit.

I do feel that Night Scythes are in a terrible position right now. They've lost a lot of their unique transporting rules (including the transport keyword now). It's difficult to justify their use in the current rendition.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

morgoth wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

morgoth wrote:
Tesla for overwatch was just a bug that many chose to consider as a feature. It never really defined competitive Necron anyway.

It was a feature because it wasn't as strong as some people chose to believe.

It was an obvious mismatch between a codex rule written for another edition and a BRB rule of the then current edition.

That it was available on the most undercosted flyer ever only made it worse.

It was only undercosted until everyone started getting AA. Tournament wins for Necrons went down little by little as that happened. THEN it was just a pretty great unit.

Not really, no.

It was crazy good for all that codex's life, until they released the new necrons which were then more about being unkillable and moving 12" rather than spamming croissants.

The number of tournament wins is irrelevant to the fact that a unit is undercosted.

morgoth wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

morgoth wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

morgoth wrote:
Tesla for overwatch was just a bug that many chose to consider as a feature. It never really defined competitive Necron anyway.

It was a feature because it wasn't as strong as some people chose to believe.

It was an obvious mismatch between a codex rule written for another edition and a BRB rule of the then current edition.

That it was available on the most undercosted flyer ever only made it worse.

It was only undercosted until everyone started getting AA. Tournament wins for Necrons went down little by little as that happened. THEN it was just a pretty great unit.

Not really, no.

It was crazy good for all that codex's life, until they released the new necrons which were then more about being unkillable and moving 12" rather than spamming croissants.

The number of tournament wins is irrelevant to the fact that a unit is undercosted.

Actually it does because it proves my point. As more armies got accessible AA, the power of the Scythe decreased significantly. The issue was it was 100 points and wasn't being hit by anything. Dedicated AA from armies like Tau and SM and CSM and even Eldar (though there's was more a power creep issue, like it always is with Eldar), made the AV11 unit easily killed, and if you looked at tournaments you'd see that, though they were a top army, they had WAY less topping lists.

You're right it was crazy, but it was only crazy in the codex. There's a reason this thread right here exists, and it's to prove Necrons are always called more powerful than they really are. You even talked about Decurion, and look how long that lasted: right until the next codex releases of Eldar and Space Marines!