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Hi everyone!

I've tried searching this, and other forums, and the FAQs, but I remain confused about targeting and wound allocation, and I was wondering if someone can confirm if I understand the 8th edition rules correctly.

To that end, imagine a scenario - There is an Imperial shipping container. Directly behind it are ten grotz, and six inches away on the other side are ten tactical space marines.

Suppose all of the grotz are behind the LOS blocking terrain - it is my understanding that the marines may not target the grotz, because they cannot see them.

Now, suppose one of the unit of grotz is just a little bit bigger, or one of them is dumber, and while all of them are hunkered down behind the container, one is standing out in the open, in full view of the marines.

The marines declare fire on the unit of grotz, based on seeing this one model. They roll their dice, and produce ten successful wounds. The ork player allocates the first wound to the grot in the open, and he is instantly sent home to Mork. Now there are nine wounds to apply.

My understanding, based on reading the rule book, is that the remaining wounds spray forth around the corner into the grotz who are behind the container, as the shots fired at the one grot that would be seen have generated wounds that now must be allocated to the unit, even though it is now entirely out of LOS.

Is this correct?

Yes, although if I understand correctly, the defending player doesn't even have to allocate any of those wounds to the model in the open, unless all of the models of the unit are destroyed and there are still wounds left to allocate, which would be the case in your scenario.

Oggthrok wrote:
Hi everyone!

I've tried searching this, and other forums, and the FAQs, but I remain confused about targeting and wound allocation, and I was wondering if someone can confirm if I understand the 8th edition rules correctly.

To that end, imagine a scenario - There is an Imperial shipping container. Directly behind it are ten grotz, and six inches away on the other side are ten tactical space marines.

Suppose all of the grotz are behind the LOS blocking terrain - it is my understanding that the marines may not target the grotz, because they cannot see them.

Now, suppose one of the unit of grotz is just a little bit bigger, or one of them is dumber, and while all of them are hunkered down behind the container, one is standing out in the open, in full view of the marines.

The marines declare fire on the unit of grotz, based on seeing this one model. They roll their dice, and produce ten successful wounds. The ork player allocates the first wound to the grot in the open, and he is instantly sent home to Mork. Now there are nine wounds to apply.

My understanding, based on reading the rule book, is that the remaining wounds spray forth around the corner into the grotz who are behind the container, as the shots fired at the one grot that would be seen have generated wounds that now must be allocated to the unit, even though it is now entirely out of LOS.

Is this correct?

Yes. No more LOS sniping idiocy or flamer guys instantly dying for being at the front of the unit.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Yes. No more LOS sniping idiocy or flamer guys instantly dying for being at the front of the unit.

My Ork nobz will certainly appreciate that - it was hard to take the biggest and the toughest, and stick them in the middle just to avoid losing the nob to the first hail of fire. Waaay more realistic, but orks do not generally care for realism.

 alienux wrote:
Yes, although if I understand correctly, the defending player doesn't even have to allocate any of those wounds to the model in the open, unless all of the models of the unit are destroyed and there are still wounds left to allocate, which would be the case in your scenario.

It is cool that you don't have to lose the heavy or the special just due to positioning - I can imagine a heavy weapon group in the guard being caught in the open and shot, and the men inside cover running out to retrieve the gun, leaving them exposed themselves. That's how I try to "forge the narrative" anyway.

But, I can't quite curve my brain around this bullet bending issue. That is, allocating wounds to models that are out of LOS. I keep running into more questions in my mind when I try to play it out... My mind wants it to be that you only apply wounds to models visible to the shooter.

But, how about this:

Imagine those marines are moving toward that storage container, where all of the grotz but one are completely out of LOS. The marines are advancing in a line, and only the one closest to the container is within 24" of the visible grot. Does having one model in range allow the entire squad to fire? Or, only models which are themselves within range?

Only the weapons that are in range may fire.

I went with weapons in range instead of midels because a land raider could also be moving towards the grots and be 40" away; the heavy bolters are out of range and cannot fire but the lascannons are and can.


It is fairly simple, yet less realistic: you check range and LOS after selecting your shooting unit. You declare each weapon's targets before shooting any weapons(and the targets must be legal at this time). Now once you start shooting with your unit: all the declared shots are going to happen, and there is no denial of the declared weapons from results of resolved weapons.

I see it as...the marines see the grot fires and the others run to the grot being fired at and the remaining shots hit them.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Only the weapons that are in range may fire.

I went with weapons in range instead of midels because a land raider could also be moving towards the grots and be 40" away; the heavy bolters are out of range and cannot fire but the lascannons are and can.


It is fairly simple, yet less realistic: you check range and LOS after selecting your shooting unit. You declare each weapon's targets before shooting any weapons(and the targets must be legal at this time). Now once you start shooting with your unit: all the declared shots are going to happen, and there is no denial of the declared weapons from results of resolved weapons.

Agreed.

One other way to think about step #2 of the shooting sequence is that you're really checking range and visibility to see which models in the firing unit are allowed to fire, not which models in the enemy unit can't be hit (because as long as one model in the target unit is able to be hit, then all the models in the unit are potential casualties). So you're just looking to see which firing models have absolutely no visibility to any models in the target unit, and/or which firing models do not have range to any models in the target unit.

Once you've eliminated which firing models effectively can't participate in the round of shooting (because they are totally out of range or can't seen anything), then you move onto firing with the rest of the models, knowing that every wound they inflict from there on out can cause a casualty, regardless of which casualties get pulled in the target unit while resolving this process.