Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So there are across the board reductions in points for several wargear options, the most notable being powerfists. Do you think that in the interest of fairness GW should errata these options to match the codex prices for the Index, especially since it's going to be several months for some factions (Like Wolves or Thousand Sons) to get their codex and some factions might not even get a dedicated codex (Like Deathwatch).

That was supposedly the point of breaking points out separately and creating a cross-reference nightmare. So, obviously yes.

Probably. Because there's some people dense enough that no logic can penetrate, simply having GW outright say it isn't enough, they need to produce an official document.

 Melissia wrote:
Probably. Because there's some people dense enough that no logic can penetrate, simply having GW outright say it isn't enough, they need to produce an official document.

That line of thinking is frankly idiotic. By that logic I can say "My conscripts are toughness 20, so what there is no official document, stop being dense!" If they choose not to update the points, whatever, my Whulves will be overcosted for a few months, but you can't just change stuff because you want to.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
By that logic I can say "My conscripts are toughness 20

Nope.

It's not my fault you can't read worth a damn. You keep insisting that anything you disagree with is equivalent to saying "my conscripts are toughness 20" no matter the context of the disagreement, and it's just kinda silly.

Considering they FAQ'd Codex/Index interaction with legacy units, it would make sense to change it so that the most current rules for units and their options would be used, but they also stated that armies with an upcoming Codex need to use the Index in the same article, so who knows.

Personally I thought the legacy unit decision was a mistake anyways, and would've prefer isolating each army ruleset for clarity's sake.

Yes - they also need to look at units in Imperium 2 who can take Power Fists

ie Ad Mech, Guard and Inquisition as Sisters can sadly no longer have Power Fists.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Yes - they also need to look at units in Imperium 2 who can take Power Fists

ie Ad Mech, Gaurd and Inquisiton as Sisters can sadly no longer have Power Fists.

No Model No Rules. Hell, even Yes Model No Rules seems to be the mantra now.

Why only those two?

Surely many of the changes would also have implications for other armies as well?

 Mr Morden wrote:
Yes - they also need to look at units in Imperium 2 who can take Power Fists

ie Ad Mech, Gaurd and Inquisiton as Sisters can sadly no longer have Power Fists.

Hmm?

 vipoid wrote:
Hmm?

IG characters pay 10 points for S6 power fists on defensively weaker characters, compared to 12 points for S8 on tougher ones. Quite a difference two points of strength makes-- wounding marines on 2+ and most tanks on 3+, even the toughest tanks on 4+.

Sisters are limited to the standard three power weapons plus eviscerators-- which they pay 22 points for, same as an assault marine but due to S3 it means it hits at strength 6 instead of 8, and they ahve no way of actually delivering it. Oh and repentia now have weaker AP-2 eviscerators because they clearly needed the nerf

The AdMech units who can or must have power fists still pay 20 points, though most of them are S4, so they're equal to a marine offensively.

Wait for your codex. It will be out in 6 months or less. For choas - in 2 weeks. They aren't going to write rules for a 2 week period. Just work it out with your friends - I personally wouldn't mind you paying 12 points for a power-fist on a chaos terminator.

 Melissia wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
Hmm?

IG characters pay 10 points for S6 power fists on defensively weaker characters, compared to 12 points for S8 on tougher ones. Quite a difference two points of strength makes-- wounding marines on 2+ and most tanks on 3+, even the toughest tanks on 4+.

Sisters are limited to the standard three power weapons plus eviscerators-- which they pay 22 points for, same as an assault marine but due to S3 it means it hits at strength 6 instead of 8, and they ahve no way of actually delivering it. Oh and repentia now have weaker AP-2 eviscerators because they clearly needed the nerf

The AdMech units who can or must have power fists still pay 20 points, though most of them are S4, so they're equal to a marine offensively.

Ah, okay. I thought the OP meant that IG/SoB/Admech were no longer allowed to take PFs.

But yeah, the prices these armies pay are now ludicrous compared to marines.

Honestly, 12pts seems really low.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Wait for your codex. It will be out in 6 months or less. For choas - in 2 weeks. They aren't going to write rules for a 2 week period. Just work it out with your friends - I personally wouldn't mind you paying 12 points for a power-fist on a chaos terminator.

But until then my Whitescars army will be overpowered. I suppose the Goblin Throne provides!

We've had armies go years with point costs and rules made for other editions. We can wait a few months.

SilverAlien wrote:
We've had armies go years with point costs and rules made for other editions. We can wait a few months.

And that was a good idea because?

It can't be FAQed because?

Otherwise its yet another example of Codex blessed and the non Codex screwed over.

Wait for your codex. It will be out in 6 months or less

Only if you are one of the Chosen 10 dexes before Christmas - so basically Marines, Marines, Marines and maybe a couple of non Marine dexes.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Wait for your codex. It will be out in 6 months or less. For choas - in 2 weeks. They aren't going to write rules for a 2 week period. Just work it out with your friends - I personally wouldn't mind you paying 12 points for a power-fist on a chaos terminator.

But until then my Whitescars army will be overpowered. I suppose the Goblin Throne provides!

Not really...space marines were basically the worst army out of the index - cept maybe nids were worse. Still many index armies that will smoke you everytime - like harliquens - daemons - IG. Plus it really isn't that long of a wait.

 Mr Morden wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
We've had armies go years with point costs and rules made for other editions. We can wait a few months.

And that was a good idea because?

It can't be FAQed because?

Otherwise its yet another example of Codex blessed and the non Codex screwed over.

Because it's going to be an issue anyways? There are balance issues even with just indices. This will take time to fix, trying to make constant adjustments over every new release gets us nowhere. Sit back and relax for a bit.

 Mr Morden wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
We've had armies go years with point costs and rules made for other editions. We can wait a few months.

And that was a good idea because?

It can't be FAQed because?

Otherwise its yet another example of Codex blessed and the non Codex screwed over.

Wait for your codex. It will be out in 6 months or less

Only if you are one of the Chosen 10 dexes before Christmas - so basically Marines, Marines, Marines and maybe a couple of non Marine dexes.

Hey now, they hinted at ad mech and guard as well. Xenos, though, most xenos are probably screwed til 2018 or later.

I'd say they should probably update the things that don't have a codex or were left out of the codex, but for things that have a codex the answer should just be "refer to the codex".

SilverAlien wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
We've had armies go years with point costs and rules made for other editions. We can wait a few months.

And that was a good idea because?

It can't be FAQed because?

Otherwise its yet another example of Codex blessed and the non Codex screwed over.

Because it's going to be an issue anyways? There are balance issues even with just indices. This will take time to fix, trying to make constant adjustments over every new release gets us nowhere. Sit back and relax for a bit.

Its a specific adjustment to a specific weapon - it takes five minutes to sort it for all armies and not just the Chosen Ones - there is no reason not to do it. That's the whole point of the Indices system so the points CAN be adjusted easily.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Its a specific adjustment to a specific weapon - it takes five minutes to sort it for all armies and not just the Chosen Ones - there is no reason not to do it. That's the whole point of the Indices system so the points CAN be adjusted easily.

Yes when they put all the points in a single place like they mentioned, either online or as a global update in chapter approved. That's what the plan was and presumably still is.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Its a specific adjustment to a specific weapon - it takes five minutes to sort it for all armies and not just the Chosen Ones - there is no reason not to do it. That's the whole point of the Indices system so the points CAN be adjusted easily.

Yes when they put all the points in a single place like they mentioned, either online or as a global update in chapter approved. That's what the plan was and presumably still is.

points are already being adjusted for different reasons in the FAQs - see Razorwing flocks - this is no different, and no more difficult, improves balance.

Changing the pts cost of Power Fists effects mutliple armies across multiple indexes - changing the pts cost is thefore a neccesity.

you realize thaty GW is planning out poutting out a book (calledc chapter approved) every year that will balance point costs right?maybe just MAYBE that is why they've not done it. yeah I know! GW doing what they said they where gonna do months ago it's nuts! TLDR wasit till christmas, if you don't have a codex by then GW will fix the issue.

BrianDavion wrote:
you realize thaty GW is planning out poutting out a book (calledc chapter approved) every year that will balance point costs right?maybe just MAYBE that is why they've not done it. yeah I know! GW doing what they said they where gonna do months ago it's nuts! TLDR wasit till christmas, if you don't have a codex by then GW will fix the issue.

Why - they are adjusting pts in the faqs to make things better.

Maybe just maybe it would be better to do this now rather than just having Codex Chosen getting stuff reduced. Why should other armies not get adjusted now when the FAQ system exists to make these adjustments and IS doing so already. I will certianly be asking for it on facebook.

Why do you want things to get more unbalanced by having different pts costs for the same weapon for different armies - very very confusing and foolish.

It would be nice if the digital products had their point costs updated. It seems like that would be the reason for putting them all in tables in the back.

you're not the boss of me now...

Digital products should always be kept up to date with errata and updates. It is part of the benefit of the format.

And with GW formatting it all in such a way that the point costs are basically an appendix in the back of the indices, it seems like they also made it as easy as possible to do this. Anything to reduce cross-referencing would be great and GW should really be taking advantage of the format, especially since they are taking a more active hand in balancing the game. Errata is great, but if it turns in to its own tome, then it can start to get unwieldy, especially for people who grabbed digital.

 Mr Morden wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
you realize thaty GW is planning out poutting out a book (calledc chapter approved) every year that will balance point costs right?maybe just MAYBE that is why they've not done it. yeah I know! GW doing what they said they where gonna do months ago it's nuts! TLDR wasit till christmas, if you don't have a codex by then GW will fix the issue.

Why - they are adjusting pts in the faqs to make things better.

Maybe just maybe it would be better to do this now rather than just having Codex Chosen getting stuff reduced. Why should other armies not get adjusted now when the FAQ system exists to make these adjustments and IS doing so already. I will certianly be asking for it on facebook.

Why do you want things to get more unbalanced by having different pts costs for the same weapon for different armies - very very confusing and foolish.

the chaos codex drops in a week. they've openly said blood angels, dark angels etc players can use the points costs in C:SM

I'm not seeing the issue.

having to pay repeatedly for points costs is an issue, yes I agree. I'd RATHER, they have a "points master costs" sheet on the website, but they are handling things.

Cant wait to see a drop in ork Power Klaw cost! :0

 supreme overlord wrote:
you're not the boss of me now...

and you're not so big!