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daedalus wrote: Stormraven was kind of my initial thought as well, but I figured that it was maneuverable enough that it wouldn't need it as much, at least, in some hypothetical situation where you had to choose between the two.
Really, since we don't know what the other powers look like, it's hard to say if there would ever be a situation not to just take it to use it on whatever the nastiest anti-tank you happen to have at the time is.
I'm kinda hoping they make psycannons worth taking again, but I'm not gonna hold my breath on that one. I think they kneejerked away from the "good ones" and haven't yet found the sweet spot again, but they never really made any of the other weapons worth taking much more by comparison. I think the last game I played against GK (there's a heavy local GK meta here) he didn't even take anything other than storm bolters and falchions on the infantry themselves. I can't say I'd blame him at this point.
Literally the only option in the index that doesn't suck donkey gak. Something that would really help is if greyknights were able to cast the same spell more than once per turn. This would go a really long way. Psilencers and Psycannons need to be made assault. Without fixing these problems GK are going to suck no matter what they do. Plus just give them actual smite. Armies can spam 40 point psykers with multiple wound characters with actual smite. My 100 point stike squads deserve actual smite.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/04 18:51:35
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
daedalus wrote: Stormraven was kind of my initial thought as well, but I figured that it was maneuverable enough that it wouldn't need it as much, at least, in some hypothetical situation where you had to choose between the two.
Really, since we don't know what the other powers look like, it's hard to say if there would ever be a situation not to just take it to use it on whatever the nastiest anti-tank you happen to have at the time is.
I'm kinda hoping they make psycannons worth taking again, but I'm not gonna hold my breath on that one. I think they kneejerked away from the "good ones" and haven't yet found the sweet spot again, but they never really made any of the other weapons worth taking much more by comparison. I think the last game I played against GK (there's a heavy local GK meta here) he didn't even take anything other than storm bolters and falchions on the infantry themselves. I can't say I'd blame him at this point.
We have literally 3 ranged weapon options. They should all be strong enough to be viable.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Xenomancers wrote: Armies can spam 40 point psykers with multiple wound characters with actual smite. My 100 point stike squads deserve actual smite.
God, absolutely this. Our smite is a joke. I don't even bother casting it in a lot of circumstances. Why risk a perils to kill 1 conscript, for instance?
Or if it's going to be kept at 1 wound, make it 24", not require line of sight, and let us pick the target.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/04 18:54:40
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
I'd even pay more per model for actual smite. Then units like the brother captain actually become decent editions to the army. Being a full psychic army and literally having the worst powers just isn't cutting it.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Quickjager wrote: If our smite was normal smite but we pick the target and only ONE mortal wound, it would be great. We could actually have a sniper of sorts.
Or have brother captain allow you to snipe with the 1 wound smite version where you can pick your target. None of that will be included in the codex. It's going to be absolute gak - I know it.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
mrhappyface wrote: Also, if anyone's interested, WarhammerTV leaked a lot of the strategems and some other things on the stream today.
Do tell!
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
mrhappyface wrote: Also, if anyone's interested, WarhammerTV leaked a lot of the strategems and some other things on the stream today.
Do tell!
Give me a sec, I'll make a quick list of what they covered.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Right, here's what they talked about on the stream (strategems only unfortunetly, no artifacts or traits):
2CP - +1S and -1AP to a units bolt weapons for a turn
2CP - +1S and -1AP to a units psy weapons for a turn
1CP - vehicle gains a 5+ save versus mortal wounds for a phase
3CP - a unit fights a second time
1CP - give a unit deepstrike
1CP - psyker can cast an extra power that turn
1CP - an interceptor squad can shunt a second time
1CP - roll 3d6 when manifesting a psychic power and discard the lowest dice roll
1CP - roll 3d6 when denying a psychic power and discard the lowest dice roll
2CP - a character gains +1 invul for a turn
2CP - aura abilities double their range for a turn
Wizard in ancient - something to do with a Dreadnought. Maybe make a dreadnought a psyker?
That's all folks.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/04 20:39:30
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
1CP to give a unit deep strike might be worth it. Because, if it's *any* unit, i'll give deep strike to a land raider crusader, full of infantry, or a storm raven gunship. So when I do go second against guard, i actually have my best units available to me.
If you can re-cast a power that's already been cast, then hell yes, that's worth it. I don't think you can though. otherwise you could stack hammerhands... that'd be so sick though. "My falchion Paladins are strength 4 versus toughness 7, so, I wound on 3s..."
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/08/04 21:25:40
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
Grey Knights. Are getting. Chaplains. In the new Codex.
Why is this a big deal?
No idea, I'm not a GK player. Though re-rolling all hits when the GKcc units come knocking isn't a bad choice...
Grey Knights are pretty weak in melee, because our melee attacks don't have any special way to generate mortal wounds, and incredibly low mobility and attacks on models. GSC, Eldar, and others are flatly superior in melee because of their mobility, as well as their ability to generate mortal wounds in combat. My 2c.
And rerolling 1's to hit is only 12.5% less effective than rerolling 1's and 2's, and it's not restricted to pure CC.
Anyway, Grey Knights are stronger as a shooting army than as an assault army. You won't see a competitive GK list without multiple flyers.
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over all of my unit spamming babysmite.
Well the bolter one is pretty awesome because I play mostly with strike squads and basically spam battalion.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Grey Knights. Are getting. Chaplains. In the new Codex.
Why is this a big deal?
No idea, I'm not a GK player. Though re-rolling all hits when the GKcc units come knocking isn't a bad choice...
Grey Knights are pretty weak in melee, because our melee attacks don't have any special way to generate mortal wounds, and incredibly low mobility and attacks on models. GSC, Eldar, and others are flatly superior in melee because of their mobility, as well as their ability to generate mortal wounds in combat. My 2c.
And rerolling 1's to hit is only 12.5% less effective than rerolling 1's and 2's, and it's not restricted to pure CC.
Anyway, Grey Knights are stronger as a shooting army than as an assault army. You won't see a competitive GK list without multiple flyers.
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over all of my unit spamming babysmite.
Baby smite just isn't worth it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/04 21:44:03
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
1CP to give a unit deep strike might be worth it. Because, if it's *any* unit, i'll give deep strike to a land raider crusader, full of infantry, or a storm raven gunship. So when I do go second against guard, i actually have my best units available to me.
Ugh. I want that to be possible, but they better have the wording locked down HARD. Can you imagine? I deep strike my Land Raider Crusader. Inside it has 5 paladins embarked. No reason why you shouldn't be able to, especially since it'll have to sit on board for a turn before they could disembark anyway, but it's a weird thing that I don't think exists anywhere else in the game. Closest thing to compare it to is the Hades, but that's FW and still a little different (and kinda sucks now).
If you can re-cast a power that's already been cast, then hell yes, that's worth it. I don't think you can though. otherwise you could stack hammerhands... that'd be so sick though. "My falchion Paladins are strength 4 versus toughness 7, so, I wound on 3s..."
All things considered, I don't feel like that's really that outrageous, to be honest. And if it's a stratagem, the most you could use it is once a round, so it's not like you could doublecast everything.
Marmatag wrote: Only one of those strikes me as potentially good.
1CP to give a unit deep strike might be worth it. Because, if it's *any* unit, i'll give deep strike to a land raider crusader, full of infantry, or a storm raven gunship. So when I do go second against guard, i actually have my best units available to me.
If you can re-cast a power that's already been cast, then hell yes, that's worth it. I don't think you can though. otherwise you could stack hammerhands... that'd be so sick though. "My falchion Paladins are strength 4 versus toughness 7, so, I wound on 3s..."
I think the deepstrike will be for infantry only like the RavenGuard strategem.
The cast an extra power is just 1 more than you are usually allowed to cast, so likely 3 casts that turn. I don't think it lets you recast, just cast another power that turn which you already haven't used.
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
So then, they can what... spend a CP to be able to cast that smite after already being able to cast all the other powers they know and have capacity to cast already?
Or they're going to lose casting capacity. One of the two. Cause Draigo is cast 2, knows 2 (and Smite). Voldus is cast 3, knows 3 (and smite). GM casts 2, knows 1 (and smite).
It would either HAVE to be a recast, or it's going to maybe be the lamest one on the list.
daedalus wrote: So then, they can what... spend a CP to be able to cast that smite after already being able to cast all the other powers they know and have capacity to cast already?
Or they're going to lose casting capacity. One of the two. Cause Draigo is cast 2, knows 2 (and Smite). Voldus is cast 3, knows 3 (and smite). GM casts 2, knows 1 (and smite).
It would either HAVE to be a recast, or it's going to maybe be the lamest one on the list.
Kind of agree here actually.
Another thing I am hoping for is a buff to paladins and terminators. Right now there's very little reason to bring either in a competitive game. Our Paladins and Terminators should be T5 4++ at minimum. Or give them some kind of Grey Knights mobility aura. Like if they're in a pure GK detachment they have an 8" move. We need something. Our limited toolkit isn't translating well into 8th at all.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/04 22:16:59
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
Oh yeah. I went terminator heavy at the start of 5th (pre 5th GK codex, that is) and I have a selfish desire to see them as awesome as they were in the 5th ed GK codex era again. At the very least, drop the price of the special weapons for termies to the cheap price. Terminators already pay for two weapons in their base price. Don't make us pay for it a second time.
Jesus christ, 2++ Draigo or 2++ Dreadknight Character. Look at the synergy of those stratagems and psyhic powers. And not to forget Vortex of doom, roll that 12 on manifest and see your enemy ragequit before your eyes
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/05 00:18:04
The big killer is that warlord traits are fixed again. So those of us who have been using Draigo as a warlord, guess what, now we're stuck with daemon slayer.
And you need a 12+ psychic test to get vortex to deal d6.
I paused on the points. It doesn't look like anything came down in cost. Paladins and Terminators are still really expensive.
Can unique characters take relics? For instance, can you take the Cuirass on Voldus?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/05 00:52:02
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
Considering that the person reviewing this didn't think many of the C:SM units dropped in price, I would wait for the book to pass judgment. I really hope Draigo gets bonus CP. Every major Chapter Master type character has so far.
Edit: Answering a question from upthread: Unique Characters cannot get new relics. Voldus is stick with his hammer.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/05 02:18:41
Spartacus wrote: Troop Terminators went UP in cost. They're now 46 base rather than 44 and SB's are still 2 points.
well assuming grey knights get OS on their troops that could be why.
They do get ObSec.
Dreadknight HQ's can't take any relics except the Liber (-1 leadership to nearby Daemons) from what I can tell. It seems we're stuck with babysmite on everybody still, including HQ's, though the video flips past Librarians pretty quick so maybe hope there?
Psilencers, Psycannons and Incinerators still have the same stats and are all Heavy.
The "cast again" stratagem doesn't say anything about letting you cast a non-smite power a second time so I don't think it can bypass that.
Spartacus wrote: Troop Terminators went UP in cost. They're now 46 base rather than 44 and SB's are still 2 points.
So absurd.
I guess we needed a nerf.
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
6000 World Eaters/Khorne 
5250 pts
3850 pts
2500 pts 