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Want to add to my Black Templars who lacks serious AA, what's the most point efficient unit from across the Imperium?

Hmm.. from my reading, probably the Xiphon Interceptor with 4 Lascannons and bonus vs. flying. Haven't seen it on the table much though.

Any other thoughts? Agree/disagree?

Hey loyalist, wanna Heldrake?

 temoinlanuit wrote:
Hmm.. from my reading, probably the Xiphon Interceptor with 4 Lascannons and bonus vs. flying. Haven't seen it on the table much though.

Any other thoughts? Agree/disagree?

That looks neat, do you know the stats and point cost?

 Gendo wrote:

 temoinlanuit wrote:
Hmm.. from my reading, probably the Xiphon Interceptor with 4 Lascannons and bonus vs. flying. Haven't seen it on the table much though.

Any other thoughts? Agree/disagree?

That looks neat, do you know the stats and point cost?

It's a T7 11W flyer that cost about 200 points.

Maybe take a look at Mechanicus? A crawler with a AA module looks pretty boss, on paper.

Vanguard Veterans with Jump Packs and Thunder Hammers!

No idea how effective it is but I love the idea of a bunch of herioc/insane marines landing on a supersonic aircraft and trying to smash through the cockpit with Thunderhammers before getting dragged off into the slipstream.

Stormhawk interceptor with its icarus cannon hits enemy flyers on 2+. Same with the skyhammer rocketlauncher. Nothing else in the imperium can do that, i believe ? Xiphon interceptor hits enemy flyers on 3+. Flamers autohit flyers, but they dont do much damage, and its only 8" range.

 Karhedron wrote:
Vanguard Veterans with Jump Packs and Thunder Hammers!

No idea how effective it is but I love the idea of a bunch of herioc/insane marines landing on a supersonic aircraft and trying to smash through the cockpit with Thunderhammers before getting dragged off into the slipstream.

Used them before the new Codex, mostly failed charges which means they're dead with 1 wound each, will give them another go tomorrow with the new rules.


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p5freak wrote:
Stormhawk interceptor with its icarus cannon hits enemy flyers on 2+. Same with the skyhammer rocketlauncher. Nothing else in the imperium can do that, i believe ? Xiphon interceptor hits enemy flyers on 3+. Flamers autohit flyers, but they dont do much damage, and its only 8" range.

It's on my next to buy list as I always face some sort of flyer in my local meta, I'm looking specifically onto an allied detachment that covers my AA needs and leaves the Templars to the Combat stuff.

p5freak wrote:
Stormhawk interceptor with its icarus cannon hits enemy flyers on 2+. Same with the skyhammer rocketlauncher. Nothing else in the imperium can do that, i believe ? Xiphon interceptor hits enemy flyers on 3+. Flamers autohit flyers, but they dont do much damage, and its only 8" range.

How does it hit on a 2+? BS2+? +2 to hit flyers? Ignores hard to hit and has +1 to hit flyers?

 mrhappyface wrote:

p5freak wrote:
Stormhawk interceptor with its icarus cannon hits enemy flyers on 2+. Same with the skyhammer rocketlauncher. Nothing else in the imperium can do that, i believe ? Xiphon interceptor hits enemy flyers on 3+. Flamers autohit flyers, but they dont do much damage, and its only 8" range.

How does it hit on a 2+? BS2+? +2 to hit flyers? Ignores hard to hit and has +1 to hit flyers?

BS3+;
+1 for the unit's interceptor rule vs FLY;
+1 on the stormcannon/skyhammer weapon vs FLY.
Against a Flyer it'll be 3+ (-1 for Heavy-Movement, -1 for the flyer's hard to hit).

How about just a simple, classic Devastator Squad?

Edit - Heavy Weapon Teams

 Talamare wrote:
How about just a simple, classic Devastator Squad?

Edit - Heavy Weapon Teams

I am inclined to agree. Even with -1 to Hit, they are simple, effective and flexible against all targets. Add a character to reroll those 1s to hit and you should still make some damage stick.

 Flood wrote:

BS3+;
+1 for the unit's interceptor rule vs FLY;
+1 on the stormcannon/skyhammer weapon vs FLY.
Against a Flyer it'll be 3+ (-1 for Heavy-Movement, -1 for the flyer's hard to hit).

The interceptor hits anything with the keyword fly that does not have hard to hit on BS2+. Any infantry, monster, character, that has the fly keyword, any vehicle that has the fly keyword, (jet) bikes have the fly keyword, etc. Plenty units have the fly keyword, i think i need to get an interceptor.


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A dev squad with lascannons on high ground is 165pts. You get 4 shots at 4+. Thats 2 hits, 1 fails to do damage, the other is not saved, and does 3,5 wounds. Doesnt sound great for 165pts.

A stormhawk interceptor with icarus cannon, skyhammer rocket launcher and two assault cannon is 168pts. Both the icarus cannon and the skyhammer get 6 attacks, hitting on 3+, 4 hits, wounding on 4+, and against 4+ sv. Probably only one or two do damage, which is 1,5-4 wounds, depending on the weapon. The two assault cannons are 12 shots, hitting on 4+, 6 hits, wounding on 5+, and against 4+ sv. Thats probably another 1 wound. Not much damage at all for an interceptor. However, the flyer is far superior to the dev squad when it comes to toughness, wounds, and movement. I think a flyer is the best way to counter a flyer.

It's actually 174pts now with the codex (stormcannon, skyhammer).
He really puts the willies into my opponent who plays a lot of flying daemon princes with those 2 and d3 dmg weapons.

It also re-rolls saving throws of 1.

Nvrmind.

 Flood wrote:
It's actually 174pts now with the codex (stormcannon, skyhammer).
He really puts the willies into my opponent who plays a lot of flying daemon princes with those 2 and d3 dmg weapons.

It also re-rolls saving throws of 1.

But, you should also point out that, if your opponant has no models with th FLY keyword, the stormhawk is hitting on a 5+.

Lascannon Predator or Basilisks I think would be best.

 mrhappyface wrote:

But, you should also point out that, if your opponant has no models with th FLY keyword, the stormhawk is hitting on a 5+.

What is the possibility of that happening ? Pretty low, i think. FLY is strong in this edition.

The skyhammer rocket launcher is a possible replacement for two heavy bolters. If i know that my opponent has no FLY units i dont pick the rocket launcher. The -1 for the icarus cannon against nonFLY units remains, though.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Lascannon Predator or Basilisks I think would be best.

The lascan pred only gets to shoot once, then the flyer is gone. Only 4 shots. It cannot be on high ground, its vision is limited by terrain, and if it moves it suffers another -1 to hit, then its only 5+. And its 202 pts. Pretty much one of the worst choices for AA.

p5freak wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

But, you should also point out that, if your opponant has no models with th FLY keyword, the stormhawk is hitting on a 5+.

What is the possibility of that happening ? Pretty low, i think. FLY is strong in this edition.

I have a 1500pt WE army that runs no fly models and has gone 4W 0L, I have a friend who plays Orks who has only used one flyer in all of his games (and he has only lost to me once, in a list where I did take fly models, and lost to a very competitive Guard friend of mine) and I have a very competitive Guard player who only takes flyers in 2000pts+ games and he is on a massive winning streak (only losing to me a few times when 8th first came out).

It's also doubly bad because they're flyers: it means that, because of their poor output versus ground targets, they can be ignored and let your opponant score sudden death by destroying everything but your flyers.

 Talamare wrote:
How about just a simple, classic Devastator Squad?

Edit - Heavy Weapon Teams

Not in my list mate, very fluffy one, unless you mean the IG ones that's more like it but I fear to saturate my deployment with not enough space for units.


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 BaconCatBug wrote:
Lascannon Predator or Basilisks I think would be best.

Been looking into Basilisks, they are 108pts with the Heavy Bolter, BS4/D6 hits/AP-2/D3D

The hits are roll 2 and pick the highest which could help the BS4, the AP and Damage isn't the best vs AA.

Assume I take two with a Master of Ordnance which comes with the Artillery Barrage (nice) and rerolls of 1 in between them for 38pts. That would be effective but still lacking the AP and they'll be all locked by one unit charging.

So far the best performing AA for me has been Meltas as they deny pretty much any save, any long range equivalent?

A laser destroyer has 36", S12, AP-4, D6.

Bring a fire raptor gunship, fluffy and keeps the sky clear.

Failing that bring a Aegis defense line.

If not opposed to allies I'd bring some Admech for the AA

p5freak wrote:A laser destroyer has 36", S12, AP-4, D6.

Unless of course it becomes D2d6 or 3d6.

Not_Apharius wrote:Bring a fire raptor gunship, fluffy and keeps the sky clear.

Failing that bring a Aegis defense line.

If not opposed to allies I'd bring some Admech for the AA

Fire Raptors aren't all that good at anti-air since they have no +1 to hit FLY units, though they are fantastic at clearing out anything else.

I'm quite a big fan on the Space Marine Stalker.

At just 114 pts it's some of the cheapest T8 W11 in the game - a rock solid backline objective holder that you park literally on top of the objective for maximum effect.

It can fire 6 shots at S7 AP-1 D2. You'll need a few turns to bring down a flyer but this is also really good against Crisis Suits, any form of Eldar, Inceptors etc.

Hunter is pretty good too - it rocks an old school twin-linked lascannon equivalent. More damage to a single target.

A stalker ? 6 shots hitting on 3+, thats 4 hits, wounding on 4+, thats 2 wounds, flyer has a 4+sv, saves 1. Result is 2 damage to the flyer. Wow, impressive. Then the flyer is gone, out of sight. Its pretty much the same story, like the predator. A few turns to take a flyer down ? The game is long over before your stalker comes even close to kill a T7 W10 flyer.

p5freak wrote:
A stalker ? 6 shots hitting on 3+, thats 4 hits, wounding on 4+, thats 2 wounds, flyer has a 4+sv, saves 1. Result is 2 damage to the flyer. Wow, impressive. Then the flyer is gone, out of sight. Its pretty much the same story, like the predator. A few turns to take a flyer down ? The game is long over before your stalker comes even close to kill a T7 W10 flyer.

I agree about the Predator as i ran one in every game for lack of anything else.

The D6 damage it's great but getting wounds through it's hard especially with bad dice karma...mine always sits still in my deployment and it still gets blown up or charged in one turn.

Had better luck yesterday with a Lascannon Ven Dread nearby and the Predator having the Autocannon this time, used the new 6" stratagem for the Dreadnought that lets them reroll 1s.


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 Not_Apharius wrote:
Bring a fire raptor gunship, fluffy and keeps the sky clear.

Failing that bring a Aegis defense line.

If not opposed to allies I'd bring some Admech for the AA

That looks awesome, do you know points and stats?

Its 418 or 422 pts. Hits other flyers at 4+. Lots of firepower, but less effective than two stormhawk interceptors, which are only 350 pts.

p5freak wrote:
Its 418 or 422 pts. Hits other flyers at 4+. Lots of firepower, but less effective than two stormhawk interceptors, which are only 350 pts.

At that price I rather have an Imperial Knight with Thermal Cannon and Stormspear Pod, super heavy rules and AA also in fights.

 Gendo wrote:

p5freak wrote:
Its 418 or 422 pts. Hits other flyers at 4+. Lots of firepower, but less effective than two stormhawk interceptors, which are only 350 pts.

At that price I rather have an Imperial Knight with Thermal Cannon and Stormspear Pod, super heavy rules and AA also in fights.

The CSM version is better: prescience + VotLW and a Lord for re-rolls mean it's hitting flyers on 3s, re-rolling 1s, wounding on 2s with Lascannons, 4s with Heavy bolters and boltcannons. Ends up doing about 15 damage to any flyer of T7/8 with a 3+ save.

Not sure if you loyalists can do anything like that but the Fire Raptor is my go to anti-everything unit now.