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Basically, if I do not wish to buy an expensive Codex and am willing to not use all the extra rules that the Codex provides, can I just use the Index?

I know I can because GW hasn't put anything concrete other than "Codex entries are INTENDED to replace Index rules, but use whatever you want because it's 'your' game, blah, blah, blah"
But I'd like to know what the consensus or expectation is in your various groups.

In the past, I have been an advocate for only using the most current rules for any army/unit. However, with the release (and my purchase of) the Indexes, I am beginning to think that I should be able to chose which source I use as long as they are all official 8E rules.
Especially since most players will still have to refer to the Indexes for units that have yet to receive a codex update.

To clarify, I am not saying a player can "cherry-pick" units between Index and Codex to make a combination of the best units, but I think a player should be able to choose which book they use as a whole for their army. Because a $25 book with 5+ factions is a way better deal than a $40 book with 1 faction.

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It will be expected that you have the latest unless anything else is stated, but I wouldn't deny anyone a game if they said they only play using the Index.

Depends on if you're using it to be WAAC

Example
Brimstone is getting a MASSIVE nerf in the upcoming Chaos book, choosing Index to dodge that nerf on your BS Spam list...

There's a few units that I have to use the index for.

Yes, you're fine to stick with the index...

..as long as your opponent and play location is fine with it.

Tournaments definitely won't be fine with it.

Games in your local GW store... I would think not. Up to the store owner but they only exist to sell product so allowing people who refuse to buy the product to play there is a bit counterproductive. Probably an "it's fine this time but you should really buy it and this box of agressors and some paints and..."

Random pick-up games against whoever's in your FLGS... I can imagine them accepting it.

A mate who trusts you not to be min-maxing... totally fine.

I would be very surprised if someone refused to use the Code rules once theirs is released. On the other hand, units which don't have codex rules (e.g. rifle dreads) can still be used out of the index even where a codex exists.

Generally if a unit you're using is replaced in the Codex, most people would expect you to use the Codex. If it's not replaced, then you pretty much can only use the Index.

That said, if you have your own playgroup or an understanding opponent, talking it out is always an option. I personally find the indexes to be better overall until at least a few more codex releases; currently at best 3 armies get access to (essentially) free relics, more powerful stratagems, warlord traits, and spells.

I don't have any say in what rules you and your opponent agree to play with, Nor should I.

The only issue I see is given Gamers are such a "cowardly and superstitious lot" they'll assume you are using the index to gain some advantage over them and refuse to play you.

 Talamare wrote:
Depends on if you're using it to be WAAC

Example
Brimstone is getting a MASSIVE nerf in the upcoming Chaos book, choosing Index to dodge that nerf on your BS Spam list...

They've had their points increased by 1. It's irritating, but somewhat justified. I wouldn't call it "MASSIVE" though. They're probably still the best obj campers for chaos.

My only consideration would be to, as indicated above, use one or the other and not both. I think there will be a lot of Index-only players and groups around.

I do think there will be a serious mis-match with Codices being arguably much stronger than Indexes. With reduced costs, more wargear options, more traits and army-wide abilities etc., an Index army will struggle a bit - though perhaps not impossibly so.

This can also be very easily offset by allowing a small points or power consideration to the Index player if the players agree.

Lancelot185 wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Depends on if you're using it to be WAAC

Example
Brimstone is getting a MASSIVE nerf in the upcoming Chaos book, choosing Index to dodge that nerf on your BS Spam list...

They've had their points increased by 1. It's irritating, but somewhat justified. I wouldn't call it "MASSIVE" though. They're probably still the best obj campers for chaos.

That's a 50% points increase. Imagine if Girlyman took a 50% points increase. It's pretty massive.

Only if the option doesn't exist in the new codex.

 Purifier wrote:

Lancelot185 wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Depends on if you're using it to be WAAC

Example
Brimstone is getting a MASSIVE nerf in the upcoming Chaos book, choosing Index to dodge that nerf on your BS Spam list...

They've had their points increased by 1. It's irritating, but somewhat justified. I wouldn't call it "MASSIVE" though. They're probably still the best obj campers for chaos.

That's a 50% points increase. Imagine if Girlyman took a 50% points increase. It's pretty massive.

And for how many points they cost it is still a very marginal points increase. Running five 9x1 squads is only 45 more expensive, that isn't even a whole unit

ERJAK wrote:
Only if the option doesn't exist in the new codex.

This is my only question about having to use both. I run a Rhino Primaris, but it's rules are not in the new codex from what I have seen, only in the Index.

 Purifier wrote:

Lancelot185 wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Depends on if you're using it to be WAAC

Example
Brimstone is getting a MASSIVE nerf in the upcoming Chaos book, choosing Index to dodge that nerf on your BS Spam list...

They've had their points increased by 1. It's irritating, but somewhat justified. I wouldn't call it "MASSIVE" though. They're probably still the best obj campers for chaos.

That's a 50% points increase. Imagine if Girlyman took a 50% points increase. It's pretty massive.

It is also important to note that other daemons including pink horrors went down in points. But it is a pretty massive change to Brims. They are still super cheap and spamable, but now 90 points gets you 30 Brims instead of 45, and would get you 18 Blue, and 11 Pink horrors. In theory they probably also should have lost a point of toughness. But at least now it is a bit more of a choice.

Haven't their Smites gone from d3 mortal wounds to 1 as well?

I can also say that I would be hesitant to play against index only unless they were playing with any points changes that had been made to their army. But largely that would depend on the list. For a fun game, where armies are largely fluffy, I wouldn't care. If someone is min maxing, I'd rather have the current rules used.

I mean, you can do whatever you want, but I'd not play with you. Asking your opponent to let you use out of date rules is sketchy.

I am also quite confused on how to play my thousand sons army when the chaos codex comes out. Now I know ahriman, scarab occult etc aren't in the book however some of the other units are such as tanks etc plus the psychic power's.

Now I have access to dark herticus in the index for ahriman but now dark herticus has been updated can I use the new table?

I would not want to use an index army against a codex army. For me either both are fully one or the other. So for now I'm not accepting codex opponents, but they can use the index version of the same army to play me. When my codex comes out I'll keep lists for both versions till everyone had their codex.

 Silentz wrote:
Haven't their Smites gone from d3 mortal wounds to 1 as well?

Yes, and this combined with the 1 pt hike is what's meant by a massive nerf to Brimstones. They have lost their offensive punch, effectively averages to half their "shooting", while the price increase makes taking more of them harder, effectively half their price increase.

So between half the shooting and 33% fewer of them, they've dropped considerably in value. Mind you, Conscripts are still the same cost for 4 shots each with commissar orders and the inability to lose too many of them due to guys getting shot in the head.

Personally, I think that if the rules for the unit as equipped is in the codex, you use the rules in the codex. If the unit as equipped is only available in the index, you use the index datasheet for it.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

Can I combine units from the index and a codex into one army?
The datasheets in the new codexes overwrite the same datasheets in the index books. You can certainly use units with updated datasheets alongside units from the index that have yet to be updated. Once a unit has been covered in the codex though, we assume you’re using the latest version.

This line means anything covered in the codex overwrites the index entry, thus making the index entry entirely invalid. The only index entries you can use are the ones that have "yet to be updated." This line means anything covered in the codex overwrites the index entry, thus making the index entry entirely invalid. The only index entries you can use are the ones that have "yet to be updated." So if you were hoping to use the index to keep your dakka venerable dreads, you're SOL. It also means for things like Wolf Lords that link to another index datasheet, you're forced to use the index datasheet for Captain instead of the codex one, because it's the latest rules for "Wolf Lord".

The intention is pretty clear that you use the Codex where appropriate.

However, I'd certainly be open to an opponent asking if we could use Indexes rather than Codexes. I often feel that 40k and Warhammer are best with the simple "beginner" army lists - 2nd, 3rd and 8th 40k, 4th, 6th WH and AoS.

I will buy the codices of the armies that I play and otherwise use the indices. Period.
Atm this will be Eldar kin and Necrons. They are lukily in one index.

I'll be getting Codecies for my Sisters of Battle and my Imperial Guardsmen, but sticking to the index rules for everything else.

I don't see a reason to buy whole codecies for armies that I play twice a year, at most.

Honestly, I'd borrow someone else's copy of the codex and note the changes made. Most people won't insist you bring the codex with you, but will insist that you be compliant with the updated rules.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Honestly, I'd borrow someone else's copy of the codex and note the changes made. Most people won't insist you bring the codex with you, but will insist that you be compliant with the updated rules.

Yeah, and if there is a rules dispute, I'd want to see the rules, not someone's 'notes.'

kelewan wrote:
I am also quite confused on how to play my thousand sons army when the chaos codex comes out. Now I know ahriman, scarab occult etc aren't in the book however some of the other units are such as tanks etc plus the psychic power's.

Now I have access to dark herticus in the index for ahriman but now dark herticus has been updated can I use the new table?

My understanding is that as Thousand Sons players we can use anything that isn't Legion-specific. So we won't have any Legion tactics, but we can use the new spells, stratagems, and warlord traits.

My main issue is that casual players may not know what units from which factions have been updated.
As I play 40k and only 40K, no other table-top games, card games or even video game (#40KisLife) obviously I am going to find out which units are "the most recent". At the very least for the armies that I play
But for casual players, it might to too daunting to do that research and most "entry-level" players may be content to just use the Index and forego the extra $40 investment.

I hate that GW has created a situation, yet again, that divides its player base. It also creates an issue when I get a game against someone who plays an army I am less familiar with (due to lack of interest in that particular faction).
I have to take them at their word that their rules are the most "correct" version. If they are only using 1 Book (either the Index OR the Codex), I feel fine with trusting my opponent as they have the rules and can look them up.

The best solution, therefore, is to then consider Index rules "valid" until every single Codex is released and updates ALL units to a new version. All units in the Index should be valid, even if updated, however FAQ/Errata points changes should be considered mandatory too.
Otherwise it is just too taxing to keep track of what units from which faction are updated or still from an Index.

It is also maddening that I bought the Marine Index TO KNOW MY ENEMY and now I am told that those sneaky Mon-Keigh have new rules and I'm not shelling out cash for 5 new $40 books when I have a book already that SHOULD cover all 5+ of those factions.
However, this is getting a bit too much into my pet-peeve of Codecies being use to CHANGE all the rules rather than being a platform to ADD some new rules.

Slight tweaks are fine, but if I have an Index for my chosen enemy and more than 10% of it differs from the Codex (aside from ADDED rules) than I take issue with that. It's basically the same cluster^%#* of 7th edition where there were so many sources for rules that no one could feasibly own them all

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