Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I hate coming to this forum so often to ask questions about a single model.

Played tonight for the first time as World Eaters. I went second and dropped a Kharbdis Assault Claw containing Kharn and 2 big squads of Berzerkers behind his army. They assaulted 5 of his squads, wiping out about half of his forces on the first turn.

We got into a dispute about the rules around Drop Pod Assault, he thought I was playing it wrong.

From what I understand:

- A Drop Pod Assault transport has to land 9 inches away from the enemy.
- Units immediately disembark.
- Disembarking units need to be 9 inches away from the enemy.
- Other than that, units disembark as normal, meaning they can move, shoot and charge.

The rules for the KAC state "it can make a Drop Pod Assault at the end of any of your movement phases." He claimed the arrival of the KAC at the end of the phase meant that no other unit could move, and that, if I had 2 KACs, only one could arrive per turn (since the KAC must arrive last, no 2 KACs could arrive last.)

My questions:

1) Are there any differences to disembarking from a KAC versus any other unit in the game? Is there any rule anyone can point to?

2) Does the fact the KAC arrives at the end of the movement phase affect the movement of the units who disembark?

If you have two things that happen at the end of the movement phase you can pick which to do first, so you can have two KAC land.

If you move the disembarked units then the KAC did not arrive at the end of the movement phase.

You can have two KAC arrive simultaneously and you get to choose what order to resolve them.

 techsoldaten wrote:
1) Are there any differences to disembarking from a KAC versus any other unit in the game? Is there any rule anyone can point to?

2) Does the fact the KAC arrives at the end of the movement phase affect the movement of the units who disembark?

The Reinforcements section of the core rules (BRB, p. 177) explains that units with the ability to be set up mid-turn cannot move or advance during the turn they arrive, but may otherwise act normally.

At the end of the movement phase your drop pods drop in and then your units get out.

You DO NOT get to move them further in said movement phase.

But you still can use psychic powers shoot and yes charge. Which needs a 9+ to make it in.

If you were dropping in the klaw then moving the berserkers afterwards in the same movement phase then yes you were doing in wrong.

 Scott-S6 wrote:
If you move the disembarked units then the KAC did not arrive at the end of the movement phase.

You can have two KAC arrive simultaneously and you get to choose what order to resolve them.

Awesome, glad to know about the 2 KACs arriving.

Still not convinced about the disembarking unit.

The reason: during the fight phase, units can consolidate to within 1 inch of another, making that unit eligible to be activated. The way it's been explained to me, it works on a rolling basis.

Wondering why the movement phase would work differently from the fight phase in this aspect.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Youngblood13 wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
1) Are there any differences to disembarking from a KAC versus any other unit in the game? Is there any rule anyone can point to?

2) Does the fact the KAC arrives at the end of the movement phase affect the movement of the units who disembark?

The Reinforcements section of the core rules (BRB, p. 177) explains that units with the ability to be set up mid-turn cannot move or advance during the turn they arrive, but may otherwise act normally.

This is not a case of the unit being set up mid-turn. The KAC is the unit that arrived mid-turn, the Berzerkers are disembarking. The rules for disembarking are different than the rules for reinforcements.

If you're suggesting that your berserkers get to make a normal move after "disembarking" I believe you're wrong. That is why the KAC must be done at the end of the phase, exactly to prevent you from moving your disembarking units. You have to understand how horrifically overpowered it would be if you got what amounts to a guaranteed first turn charge every game. That's just broken.

 techsoldaten wrote:

Still not convinced about the disembarking unit.

The reason: during the fight phase, units can consolidate to within 1 inch of another, making that unit eligible to be activated. The way it's been explained to me, it works on a rolling basis.

Wondering why the movement phase would work differently from the fight phase in this aspect.

The fight phase consists of many fight sequences. Although consolidation is the last step of the fight sequence it is not an end of phase action.

If all consolidation happened at the end of the fight phase would units that were consolidated into be able to fight? No, because if more fighting happens aftwrwards then it wasn't the end of the phase.

That's why you can't move units that disembark from the KAC.

 Living-metal wrote:
If you're suggesting that your berserkers get to make a normal move after "disembarking" I believe you're wrong. That is why the KAC must be done at the end of the phase, exactly to prevent you from moving your disembarking units. You have to understand how horrifically overpowered it would be if you got what amounts to a guaranteed first turn charge every game. That's just broken.

Yeah, I realize it's broken. Have been playing it this way because of the way the rules read. From IA Index: Forces of Chaos:

"Instead of deploying the model with the rest of your army, you can set it up, along with any units embarked within it, in orbit, ready for a Drop Pod Assault. If you do so, it can make a Drop Pod Assault at the end of any of your Movement phases. When it does so, set it up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" from any enemy models. Any models embarked inside must immediately disembark, but they cannot be set up within 9" of any enemy models. Any models that cannot be set up because there is not enough room are slain."

From BRB p. 177, reinforcements:

"Many units have the ability to be set up on the battlefield mid-turn, sometimes by using teleporters, grav chutes or other, more esoteric means. Typically, this happens at the end of the Movement phase, but it can also happen during other phases. Units that are set up in this manner cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive."

My logic has been that the KAC itself is arriving via Drop Pod Assault and follows the normal rules for reinforcements. But the rule states that passengers must immediately disembark, making them subject to the rules for disembarking (which allow units to move after exiting the vehicle.)

This is the first time I was ever challenged on this interpretation. While I accept that it's unfair and RAI should not be played that way, RAW would seem to permit it.

That still doesn't get around the fact that it happens at the end of the Movement phase, so you do not have the opportunity to do anything else afterwards unless it also happens at the end of the movement phase. You can't do a normal move or advance with a unit that disembarks from a drop pod the turn it comes in.

"Units that are set up in this manner cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive."

I don't think it can get any clearer than that phrase, both the KAC and the unit inside it were set up in this manner and are therefore ineligible to move or advance.

The unit arrived from reserves, just because it was carried there by transport does not mean they didn't arrive from reserves.

Even if that rule didn't apply, the drop pod arrived at the END of the movement phase, and you disembarked at the END of the movement phase, so you literally don't have "time" to move them.

This is probably the third edition where I've seen the "the vehicle Deep Struck, not the guys inside the vehicle..." Argument.

Things never change. ::sigh::

 techsoldaten wrote:
My logic has been that the KAC itself is arriving via Drop Pod Assault and follows the normal rules for reinforcements. But the rule states that passengers must immediately disembark, making them subject to the rules for disembarking (which allow units to move after exiting the vehicle.)

This is the first time I was ever challenged on this interpretation. While I accept that it's unfair and RAI should not be played that way, RAW would seem to permit it.

RAW Permits to use the rules for disembarking:

"Disembark: (...) set it up on the battlefield so that all of its models are within 3" of the transport (...) ". To this, you add the specific Rule from the pod: "but they cannot be set up within 9" of any enemy models"

Where is your allowance to then move any further?

Your pod arrives, you set up within 3", 9" away from enemies and that ends you movement phase. This is RAW unless you can find Written Rule that allows you to move?