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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 09:23:03
Subject: Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Howard A Treesong wrote:Lots of left wing people on twitter seem to support punching nazis, but that's just justifying starting violence. You can't cheer on hitting nazis and then complain when they hit back..
Yes, I've seen a lot of endorsing of "it's always OK to punch a Nazi" or some version thereof, but assaulting someone for their political speech seems pretty off to me. Protecting free speech necessarily means protecting the crappiest speech; the popular ideas don't need to be defended.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 09:26:40
Subject: Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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[MOD]
Solahma
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So far as I can tell, the purpose of social media is join in on endorsing popular ideas with the consequence of ratcheting them up to weird extremes. "Nazis are bad" becomes "punch people who disgree with you."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 09:36:16
Subject: Re:Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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One would think that saying "Nazis are bad" would cost the President of the United States absolutely zero political capital.
How times change eh ?
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 09:53:42
Subject: Re:Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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It is costing Trump political capital. He has already been called out by senior Republican senators for condemning the violence in wishy-washy "everyone is equally to blame" terms.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 10:00:37
Subject: Re:Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Well ... President Trump wrote:We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence, on many sides. On many sides. It's been going on for a long time in our country.
First, let's come back down from the social media noosphere, back to terra firma. This isn't actually about Nazis, folks. Bandying about the word "Nazi" and Nazi imagery, here is where the President's troubling "many sides" phrase actually rings true. You have on the one hand this optical illusion of neo-Nazism engineered by people like Spencer. And on the other hand, you have a news market absolutely ravenous for it. Nothing could be more clear, even in the torrent of digitalized news commentary, than Nazis being bad. Clarity is profitable in a noisy informatiom market and "many sides" are eager to tap into that clarity. Spencer loves the portrayal of his pathetic sideshow as top billing. Donald Trump is very familiar with this kind of relationship with the media. Of course, he understands what Spencer is doing and of course he doesn't want to play into it. Trump is not keen to help Spencer portray white American conservatives as poised on the brink of some kind of racist revolution. It's not what's going on in the US, for one thing. For another, that narrative is part of his opponents' case against him.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/08/13 10:03:36
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 10:12:46
Subject: Re:Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Can the social media bubble be divorced from terra firma when so many people rely it on for news rather than conventional media, and when Trump uses it so enthusiastically?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 10:21:29
Subject: Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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[MOD]
Solahma
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I hope so, because otherwise - at least for some people - we just had a Nuremberg-style rally in Charlottesville. (Except, no, we didn't.) It's like the inauguration: whatever actually happened, in the digital world it was simultaneously the best and worst attended inauguration of all time. Yes, we are in serious need of terra firma. We can pick on Kellyanne Conway for coining "alternative facts," but that's the dirty water we'ra all swimming in online.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/13 10:22:03
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 10:24:57
Subject: Re:Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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HAving said that, I note that the BBC's researchers think there are really very few extreme right-wingers in the USA.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40915356
The most prominent group is the alt-right, whose numbers are difficult to know since they operate mostly on-line.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 10:42:56
Subject: Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Sure, internet noise doesn't translate accurately into a meaningful meatspace phenomenon. That's why Spencer organizes torchlit events. Snap some tight shots and you get a lot of drama to fuel the digitally-assisted imagination. He is leveraging the same media he baits into selling his work as something important when it really just isn't. He leverages the goofy antifa scenesters the same way into showing up for set piece battles. But take a wide angle shot and it's a sad kerfuffle.
This car incident is off-message. It's like the Australian girl getting shot by the Somali cop.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/13 10:50:51
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 10:46:23
Subject: Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
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Ouze wrote: Howard A Treesong wrote:Lots of left wing people on twitter seem to support punching nazis, but that's just justifying starting violence. You can't cheer on hitting nazis and then complain when they hit back..
Yes, I've seen a lot of endorsing of "it's always OK to punch a Nazi" or some version thereof, but assaulting someone for their political speech seems pretty off to me. Protecting free speech necessarily means protecting the crappiest speech; the popular ideas don't need to be defended.
Someone on my twitter retweeted a comment like 'my grandad knew the right way to treat nazis in WW2'
So I guess they mean shooting them? And I've a lot cheering pictures of them being pepper sprayed saying 'no one tattooed with a swastika is a victim'. I guess if you're a nazi you can't be a victim of crime now? And these are liberal lefties. Not comfortable with sone of this at all. If the car had been driven by antifa and had killed one of these nazis, would they be cheering that too? Not sure any more.
In the 1920s-30s communists and fascists had violent battles in the streets in parts of Europe, neither side comes out looking good because everyone else has to deal with the consequences.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 11:05:24
Subject: Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Howard A Treesong wrote: Ouze wrote: Howard A Treesong wrote:Lots of left wing people on twitter seem to support punching nazis, but that's just justifying starting violence. You can't cheer on hitting nazis and then complain when they hit back..
Yes, I've seen a lot of endorsing of "it's always OK to punch a Nazi" or some version thereof, but assaulting someone for their political speech seems pretty off to me. Protecting free speech necessarily means protecting the crappiest speech; the popular ideas don't need to be defended.
Someone on my twitter retweeted a comment like 'my grandad knew the right way to treat nazis in WW2'
So I guess they mean shooting them? And I've a lot cheering pictures of them being pepper sprayed saying 'no one tattooed with a swastika is a victim'. I guess if you're a nazi you can't be a victim of crime now? And these are liberal lefties. Not comfortable with sone of this at all. If the car had been driven by antifa and had killed one of these nazis, would they be cheering that too? Not sure any more.
In the 1920s-30s communists and fascists had violent battles in the streets in parts of Europe, neither side comes out looking good because everyone else has to deal with the consequences.
The torch march the night before went off without any problems. It wasn't until the Leftist counter protesters (some of which were armed with improvised weapons, as seen in some of the shots of the Challenger incident) started rolling in that the fuse had been lit.
Originally, the local police had labeled this as an accident caused by a combination of the counter protesters illegally marching in a vehicle-only lane, and a stupid (or panicky) driver. With all of the hubbub surrounding this incident (and event in general), it's a good idea to wait for all of the information before making "ironclad" conclusions.
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Proud Purveyor Of The Unconventional In 40k |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 11:07:04
Subject: Re:Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Manchu wrote:Well ... President Trump wrote:We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence, on many sides. On many sides. It's been going on for a long time in our country.
First, let's come back down from the social media noosphere, back to terra firma. This isn't actually about Nazis, folks. Bandying about the word "Nazi" and Nazi imagery, here is where the President's troubling "many sides" phrase actually rings true. You have on the one hand this optical illusion of neo-Nazism engineered by people like Spencer. And on the other hand, you have a news market absolutely ravenous for it. Nothing could be more clear, even in the torrent of digitalized news commentary, than Nazis being bad. Clarity is profitable in a noisy informatiom market and "many sides" are eager to tap into that clarity. Spencer loves the portrayal of his pathetic sideshow as top billing. Donald Trump is very familiar with this kind of relationship with the media. Of course, he understands what Spencer is doing and of course he doesn't want to play into it. Trump is not keen to help Spencer portray white American conservatives as poised on the brink of some kind of racist revolution. It's not what's going on in the US, for one thing. For another, that narrative is part of his opponents' case against him.
I'm sorry but I take umbrage with this stance.
There were individuals who were shouting "Blood and soil", a known neo-Nazi slogan. There were individuals wearing shirts quoting freaking Adolf Hitler.
There were Nazis present at the event. There were Klansmen present. Freaking DAVID DUKE was there, giving interviews about how this demonstration "fulfilled Trump's promises".
Trump's "condemnation" was mealy-mouthed garbage done in such a way that it tries to paint both sides as being equally at fault--and maybe if we were talking strictly about the fistfights or the shouting obscenities or throwing water bottles at each other, he'd have had a point.
But one of the Nazis/Klansmen/whatever branding you want to give the <insert obscenity here> drove a freaking car into a crowd, marching down a street exercising their freedom of assembly and right to protest.
And not enough for him to do that and hit people-- he then backed the car up and ran over those he had already hit.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 11:09:39
Subject: Re:Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Kilkrazy wrote:Can the social media bubble be divorced from terra firma when so many people rely it on for news rather than conventional media, and when Trump uses it so enthusiastically?
As much as I detest social media, and can agree that it plays a role in the current mess in Europe and United States, the "conventional" media organs have demonstrated that they can't be trusted either.
The New York Times, which the OP used as his (or her) "news" source, is one of the major offenders in that area.
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Proud Purveyor Of The Unconventional In 40k |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 11:09:54
Subject: Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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oldravenman3025 wrote:
The torch march the night before went off without any problems. It wasn't until the Leftist counter protesters (some of which were armed with improvised weapons, as seen in some of the shots of the Challenger incident) started rolling in that the fuse had been lit.
This is bull. The Pier One Tiki Torch Brigade had a number of people rolling with improvised "shields", helmets, and rebreathers.
Originally, the local police had labeled this as an accident caused by a combination of the counter protesters illegally marching in a vehicle-only lane, and a stupid (or panicky) driver. With all of the hubbub surrounding this incident (and event in general), it's a good idea to wait for all of the information before making "ironclad" conclusions.
... lol?
No, it's not. You can find a video of the event. The driver comes down the road at a pretty high speed, hits some people, and then backs up over the people he hit.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 11:11:34
Subject: Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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[MOD]
Solahma
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David Frost once interviewed Sir Oswald Mosley on TV and an audience member started shouting over him. Sir Oswald turned it around as an example of why the BUF had to "fight for free speech" in the 30s, explaining that he put on a paramilitary uniform because the Communists raided their events to break them up. Sir Oswald thirty plus years later, on British TV, declared he led the Blackshirts to restore free speech to Britain.
Richard Spencer on Twitter yesterday: We came in peace. It was the government and antifa that used force against peaceful, lawful demonstrators.
Kanluwen - you say you take umbrage at my statement but nothing you posted refutes the point that President Trump clearly has no interest in playing into Spencer's strategy for turning a pathetic molehill into a horrific mountain.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/13 11:15:29
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 11:12:33
Subject: Re:Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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oldravenman3025 wrote: Kilkrazy wrote:Can the social media bubble be divorced from terra firma when so many people rely it on for news rather than conventional media, and when Trump uses it so enthusiastically?
As much as I detest social media, and can agree that it plays a role in the current mess in Europe and United States, the "conventional" media organs have demonstrated that they can't be trusted either.
Lemme guess, Tomi Lahren is a beacon of journalistic integrity?
The New York Times, which the OP used as his (or her) "news" source, is one of the major offenders in that area.
While not great, it's still miles ahead of Breitbart and Fox.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 11:14:09
Subject: Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Kanluwen wrote: oldravenman3025 wrote:
The torch march the night before went off without any problems. It wasn't until the Leftist counter protesters (some of which were armed with improvised weapons, as seen in some of the shots of the Challenger incident) started rolling in that the fuse had been lit.
This is bull. The Pier One Tiki Torch Brigade had a number of people rolling with improvised "shields", helmets, and rebreathers.
Originally, the local police had labeled this as an accident caused by a combination of the counter protesters illegally marching in a vehicle-only lane, and a stupid (or panicky) driver. With all of the hubbub surrounding this incident (and event in general), it's a good idea to wait for all of the information before making "ironclad" conclusions.
... lol?
No, it's not. You can find a video of the event. The driver comes down the road at a pretty high speed, hits some people, and then backs up over the people he hit.
I watched the footage of the torch march. Neo-nazi slogans aside, there wasn't anything out of the way going on, except Spencer's and Duke's fat asses attention whoring (as usual).
I also seen the viral vids of the Challenger incident. That alone doesn't prove malicious intent. I'm still waiting for the final conclusions of the investigation to come to light.
As it is, the driver is still facing charges for the incident. Automatically Appended Next Post: Kanluwen wrote: oldravenman3025 wrote: Kilkrazy wrote:Can the social media bubble be divorced from terra firma when so many people rely it on for news rather than conventional media, and when Trump uses it so enthusiastically?
As much as I detest social media, and can agree that it plays a role in the current mess in Europe and United States, the "conventional" media organs have demonstrated that they can't be trusted either.
Lemme guess, Tomi Lahren is a beacon of journalistic integrity?
The New York Times, which the OP used as his (or her) "news" source, is one of the major offenders in that area.
While not great, it's still miles ahead of Breitbart and Fox.
People like Lahren are part of the problem.
Breitbart yes. Fox? They're two sides of the same coin.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/13 11:15:53
Proud Purveyor Of The Unconventional In 40k |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 11:16:15
Subject: Re:Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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So this is a thread about a right-wing gakker killing someone in which we focus on attacking the left. How come? You'd think that the focus would be on why the perpetrator thought it was OK to kill people, but instead we condemn unnamed "lefties" for exercising their right to free speech because it threatens free speech.
What?
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For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 11:17:37
Subject: Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Manchu wrote:David Frost once interviewed Sir Oswald Mosley on TV and an audience member started shouting over him. Sir Oswald turned it around as an example of why the BUF had to "fight for free speech" in the 30s, explaining that he put on a paramilitary uniform because the Communists raided their events to break them up. Sir Oswald thirty plus years later, on British TV, declared he led the Blackshirts to restore free speech to Britain. Richard Spencer on Twitter yesterday: We came in peace. It was the government and antifa that used force against peaceful, lawful demonstrators.
Really Manchu? Let's just forget for a second that we're talking about an agent provocateur here and assume that the "government and antifa" really did use force against the Nazis. Given how heavily that event was being watched and recorded, and that the ACLU Virginia had legal observers on the ground watching this...where's the proof that supports his claim? Kanluwen - you say you take umbrage at my statement but nothing you posted refutes the point that President Trump clearly has no interest in playing into Spencer's strategy for turning a pathetic molehill into a horrific mountain.
Yet he has no problems playing into North Korea's rhetoric or playing up the Muslim terrorist threat-- helping Muslim extremist groups. And being blunt as possible right now: It's not going to play into Spencer's strategy to acknowledge it as an act perpetrated by a "white nationalist" or "domestic terrorist". It's bull to try to say that this was part of some "strategy" or attempt to discredit Spencer's activities. He's been cozy to white supremacists for awhile now, it just seems like now the Republicans are finally calling him out on it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/13 11:23:21
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 11:23:55
Subject: Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Kanluwen - Seems like you missed my point. Spencer is using the same rhetorical tricks as Sir Oswald. Fascists in power generally don't care too much about protecting free speech; it's just the discredited, powerless, pathetic ones who reach for that excuse.
AlmightyWalrus - This thread is not only about the car incident, about which we know next to nothing - certainly nothing meaningful about Fields other than he has been arrested and charged with, among other things, murder. The death and the injuries caused by Fields, and them the helicopter crash and police fatalities, are parallel stories here to the story of a white supremecy rally/counter rally.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/13 11:25:01
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 11:25:44
Subject: Re:Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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AlmightyWalrus wrote:So this is a thread about a right-wing gakker killing someone in which we focus on attacking the left. How come? You'd think that the focus would be on why the perpetrator thought it was OK to kill people, but instead we condemn unnamed "lefties" for exercising their right to free speech because it threatens free speech.
What?
Nobody in their right mind would defend the driver, whether it's a politically motivated attack or not.
The thing is that in recent times, when the "lefties" show up in a counter demonstration, you have a number among their ranks that are not there to peacefully protest, but to "bash a fash". And these agitators tend to overshadow those that are there simply to make their opinions known.
It's a similar phenomena to ultra-right (who have more to lose when people among their numbers instigate violence) public gatherings, when you have beer-addled skinheads and bubba Klansmen show up shouting racial slurs and picking fights.
In either case, it's counterproductive.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 11:26:59
Subject: Re:Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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oldravenman3025 wrote: Kilkrazy wrote:Can the social media bubble be divorced from terra firma when so many people rely it on for news rather than conventional media, and when Trump uses it so enthusiastically? As much as I detest social media, and can agree that it plays a role in the current mess in Europe and United States, the "conventional" media organs have demonstrated that they can't be trusted either. The New York Times, which the OP used as his (or her) "news" source, is one of the major offenders in that area. I don't think that is correct in the fullest sense. Obviously conventional papers like The Guardian or Daily Mail have biases, and they make mistakes sometimes. The good ones own up to teir mistakes and print corrections. Nothing human is perfect. However I think most people would agree that there is a spectrum of probity, from something like the BBC at the top end, down to something Infowars at the bottom. The BBC doesn't just make stuff up, and often falls over backwards to present both sides of an issue. This can happen even when one side is completely wrong and relies on lies to support its case (e.g. Lord Lawson on climate change.) The problems with social media are well documented. But in a sense they are problems with people. It is up to each of us to accept that we are liable to confirmation bias, and that therefore we have a duty to seek out news, information and opinions from the spectrum of available sources rather than only our preferred media bubble. I agree with your point about the "bash the fash" element on the left. In all movements (except possible the Women's Institute) there are likely to be some extremists who are either simply out for pagga, or believe that violence is justified in support of whatever cause they follow.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/13 11:29:53
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 11:34:31
Subject: Re:Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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Manchu wrote:. You have on the one hand this optical illusion of neo-Nazism .
Whilst Gorka works in the Whitehouse.
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 11:36:29
Subject: Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Manchu wrote:Kanluwen - Seems like you missed my point. Spencer is using the same rhetorical tricks as Sir Oswald. Fascists in power generally don't care too much about protecting free speech; it's just the discredited, powerless, pathetic ones who reach for that excuse.
Well actually they do reach for it, whether they're powerful or not. Spencer is, as mentioned, an agent provocateur. He's like the Westboro Baptist "Church" in that his schtick is to show up, stir up the pot, and then GTFO when he gets his Nazi face punched in--usually while crying about how the "government" let the Leftists do what they pleased but lil' old him got in trouble.
AlmightyWalrus - This thread is not only about the car incident, about which we know next to nothing - certainly nothing meaningful about Fields other than he has been arrested and charged with, among other things, murder. The death and the injuries caused by Fields, and them the helicopter crash and police fatalities, are parallel stories here to the story of a white supremecy rally/counter rally.
Well, we know that Fields is from Ohio(meaning he traveled to VA to be there) and people have pulled from his Twitter and Facebook images of him at Trump rallies. We also know that he claims he was "in fear for his life" hence the driving forward at high speed into the back of a vehicle, while hitting pedestrians, and reversing over the pedestrians he'd hit.
We also know that he fled the scene, and had the forethought to take his license plate with him.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 11:37:11
Subject: Re:Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Kilkrazy wrote: oldravenman3025 wrote: Kilkrazy wrote:Can the social media bubble be divorced from terra firma when so many people rely it on for news rather than conventional media, and when Trump uses it so enthusiastically?
As much as I detest social media, and can agree that it plays a role in the current mess in Europe and United States, the "conventional" media organs have demonstrated that they can't be trusted either.
The New York Times, which the OP used as his (or her) "news" source, is one of the major offenders in that area.
I don't think that is correct in the fullest sense. Obviously conventional papers like The Guardian or Daily Mail have biases, and they make mistakes sometimes. The good ones own up to teir mistakes and print corrections. Nothing human is perfect.
However I think most people would agree that there is a spectrum of probity, from something like the BBC at the top end, down to something Infowars at the bottom.
The BBC doesn't just make stuff up, and often falls over backwards to present both sides of an issue. This can happen even when one side is completely wrong and relies on lies to support its case (e.g. Lord Lawson on climate change.)
The problems with social media are well documented. But in a sense they are problems with people. It is up to each of us to accept that we are liable to confirmation bias, and that therefore we have a duty to seek out news, information and opinions from the spectrum of available sources rather than only our preferred media bubble.
I'm of the opinion that bias can be just a damaging as full-on shilling or agitprop, since it tends to be more subtle.
But I have to give kudos to the British media, who have been more or less honest about their political biases, as opposed to U.S. media organs who sold themselves off as being made up of "journalistic integrity" and in a supposed stalwart pursuit of truth. Unfortunately, it always been about the agendas of journalists and money/ratings for the corporate media bigwigs.
I agree 100% with the last part. You're right in that it's generally a good idea to check all angles and perspectives, and use a variety of sources, before making up your own mind.
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Proud Purveyor Of The Unconventional In 40k |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 11:37:47
Subject: Re:Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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I would have posted the videos of the Pretend Soldiers from the "militias" too; y'know guys packing tacticool gear and long rifles with camo on like they're Real Soldiers.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/13 11:38:03
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 11:39:27
Subject: Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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[MOD]
Solahma
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KK -
The bigger issue there is that story drivers and media outlets biased against them both stand to benefit from their public feuding, as per CNN and President Trump. It's no coincidence that CNN president Zucker is the guy who greenlit the Apprentice as a NBC exec. I don't know of any similar boardroom connections for Spencer, but let's face it Spencer was a total nobody until NPR (notoriously liberal according to conservatives, even-handed according to liberals) interviewed him.
reds8n-
Uhhh yeah there are weirdos in the US who are willing to walk around in public with Nazi flags. There are also weirdos who dress up in animal costumes for lewd purposes. I hear tell there are even weirdos who collect toy soldiers and battle them against each other. I mean, the existence of a fringe doesn't demonstrate some kind of social revolution.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/13 11:45:42
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 11:40:52
Subject: Re:Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Kanluwen wrote:
I would have posted the videos of the Pretend Soldiers from the "militias" too; y'know guys packing tacticool gear and long rifles with camo on like they're Real Soldiers.
I don't much care for LARPers either. But to be fair, there are more than a few involved in "patriot" groups and the old school militia movement that are ex-military.
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Proud Purveyor Of The Unconventional In 40k |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 11:44:27
Subject: Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Manchu wrote:The bigger issue there is that story drivers and media outlets biased against them both stand to benefit from their public feuding, as per CNN and President Trump. It's no coincidence that CNN president Zucker is the guy who greenlit the Apprentice as a NBC exec.
The Apprentice came before this Trumpsterfire of a presidency. Don't know why you're bothering with that nonsense of an argument. If you're trying to argue that CNN might be biased against Trump because of an attempt to drive ratings--fine. But let's not pretend that President Hairpiece is also constantly making a buffoon of himself and doing things that actually are newsworthy as well. I don't know of any similar boardroom connections for Spencer, but let's face it Spencer was a total nobody until NPR (notoriously liberal according to conservatives, even-handed according to liberals) interviewed him.
You do understand that when pursuing a story, people might get interviewed whether they're famous or not? Also--Spencer was not a "total nobody". He just wasn't well-known outside of white supremacist and/or law enforcement circles. Automatically Appended Next Post: oldravenman3025 wrote: Kanluwen wrote: I would have posted the videos of the Pretend Soldiers from the "militias" too; y'know guys packing tacticool gear and long rifles with camo on like they're Real Soldiers. I don't much care for LARPers either. But to be fair, there are more than a few involved in "patriot" groups and the old school militia movement that are ex-military.
And more's the shame for the US armed forces that they can hang that laurel on their mantle.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/13 11:46:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/08/13 11:46:38
Subject: Re:Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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There's still the double standard that agitating for an Aryan society is well and good because it's covered by free speech but should anyone dare to say that we should punch Nazis then it's evil. It's like being afraid of a rattlesnake on your floor and failing to notice that your house is on fire. The strong (and, in my opinion, entirely rightful) condemnation of advocating violence against Nazis just doesn't materialize against the Nazis themselves.
Take this thread for instance: you've got multiple people condemning those that advocate violence against Nazis as it would violate their right to free speech. You've got absolutely no posts spending any energy condemning the actual Nazis who advocate for atrocities that are orders of magnitude worse than "punch a Nazi". Why is it so important to remind everyone that advocating for violence is bad in the case of "punch a Nazi" but seemingly inconsequential in the case of "Make America White Again!"? It's not like anyone thinks the Nazis want to just gently remove people they don't like, right?
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For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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