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There's one nearby that's got decent prices on the stuff they sell, even a 3d printer so you can pay them to make you certain items. BUUUUUT the gaming is garbage. 90% of the store is just rows of computer monitors so people can play stupid ass computer games online. (Don't take it personally but computer and Tabletop should not be in the same store and the PC master race thing ticks me off to high heaven, but that's a rant for another time.)

So something meant to be played at home over the net hogs almost all of the store. And the tables they did have were about 3x3? Oh and here's the real kicker, they charge you by the HOUR to play. Want to play 40K? It's ten bucks an HOUR to use ONE table.

There's ZERO open gaming events and if you don't want to pay by the hour, you can become a member of their gaming club (which gets you access to the computers...woopie...) for like 20 bucks a month, and then you can set up and play anytime.

Also the store is open only when the owner feels like it as he works another job.

Probably my least favorite gaming store I went to was a store like 45 minutes away from pretty much in the opposite direction for me than the other stores I frequented.
Staff was a pain, they didn't keep up on stock, only like 2 tables total for wargamers, super cramped, and in a sketchy part of town.
And as a slight aside for great areas to game, the Boise, ID area has a GW store with very solid management, One store that is great for getting really casual games in, a store that has amazing selection for both tabletop and board games, and a wonderful store for massive events and for getting in competitive games (also has like 25% off GW)
We may be spoiled

Any game store that allows AM armies to play at less than double what their point values are. It's simply imbalanced otherwise.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
(I asked about trying to cultivate Kings of War and got blown off for "games that actually sell")

I'm sorry, but I think that specific store owner was right.

There is a store in the Cleveland, Ohio area that is the biggest mess you ever seen in your life. When you walk into the door the first room is empty boxes, 3" of dust, and just crap everywhere. You walk through this room into the store which has stuff on top of stuff on top of stuff. Garbage dumps are cleaner then this place. Prices are all over the place and if you buy something the owner puts the item in a bag he just got his Chinese take out lunch in earlier. Great store if your looking for opp items but man is it a mess..

morgoth wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
(I asked about trying to cultivate Kings of War and got blown off for "games that actually sell")

I'm sorry, but I think that specific store owner was right.

I actually just asked him about showing the rules, stating the customers could easily just use Warhammer models ("better" models that can be double-dipped and will likely add to selling more). It's like teaching someone to play Knight Models games with Heroclix models, and when they want better (or in this case more) models, they can get them. Being able to double-dip models for multiple games makes for happy gamers. And then they buy the rules. And possibly (hopefully) more models. And also, if you have customers taking an interest in something and wanting to build a group, let them try on their time and see if they can make you easy money. Don't blow em off. You lose nothing by letting a customer try to cultivate a new game (maybe a line on the store flier) and gather interest. You lose sales when you tell a customer that you couldn't care less about letting them try to cultivate a game they like.

 Chute82 wrote:
There is a store in the Cleveland, Ohio area that is the biggest mess you ever seen in your life. When you walk into the door the first room is empty boxes, 3" of dust, and just crap everywhere. You walk through this room into the store which has stuff on top of stuff on top of stuff. Garbage dumps are cleaner then this place. Prices are all over the place and if you buy something the owner puts the item in a bag he just got his Chinese take out lunch in earlier. Great store if your looking for opp items but man is it a mess..

It reminds me of the worst store I'd ever been to (I was on a trip and just stopped in because I saw it as I walked by).Lots of GW stuff with sprues and open boxes scattered around, scattered game books and papers cluttering things up, and when I walked in, the clerk/owner/whoever he was and a couple friends stopped talking and just stared at me like I'd just walked into their house and started poking around, instead of a game store with an 'open' sign in the window. No 'F' in that LGS, that's for sure!

 infinite_array wrote:

 Necros wrote:
When these kinds of posts pop up, i'm always thankful I've never had any kind of bad FLGS experience. Maybe the Philly area just has more competent game shop owners

Personally my favorite is Showcase Comics & Games. Now that I just moved (again) I'm way too far away though :( There's a newer place nearby that I want to check out, but they seem more geared toward paying to play video games there, with a couple of tabletop nights mixed in, and I think that's usually for MTG. But I'll stop in and check em out sooner or later.

Showcase, Stomping Grounds, Redcaps, 7th Dimension, and probably others that I'm missing - Philly area gamers are kinda spoiled when it comes to gaming.

I agree that Philly area players are spoiled, but that 2nd one doesn't qualify in my opinion. When was the last time you've been to Stomping Grounds? I stopped in a few months ago after not being there for about two years (was in the area and was curious how they've managed); Without going into detail, I was shocked at just how bad the state of things were, but honestly not very surprised.

 Chute82 wrote:
There is a store in the Cleveland, Ohio area that is the biggest mess you ever seen in your life. When you walk into the door the first room is empty boxes, 3" of dust, and just crap everywhere. You walk through this room into the store which has stuff on top of stuff on top of stuff. Garbage dumps are cleaner then this place. Prices are all over the place and if you buy something the owner puts the item in a bag he just got his Chinese take out lunch in earlier. Great store if your looking for opp items but man is it a mess..

We have a store like that in our area, we nicknamed it the stain, because everything in the store is covered in brown. The carpet , the merchandise. They mark all products 10% over MSRP, but still have a better reputation than my local store because they don't charge for cash tournaments, so kids flock there not realizing they are getting ripped off when they buy the cards to play in the tourney..

A store that has no open play...unless you pay 300$ a year, even then you are not guranteed your table
A store that buys tons of the same models, Clearences the rest, then never buy more because it was a "Bad seller"
A store where they dont carry any diverse product, Then get mad when you buy models online.
A store whose owner insults, belittles and bemoans his community
time for another store
A Store where it would be a great place.....if it was orginized and cleaned and they got rid of all the recycling cans in bags in the back and dusted the shelves

 timetowaste85 wrote:

morgoth wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
(I asked about trying to cultivate Kings of War and got blown off for "games that actually sell")

I'm sorry, but I think that specific store owner was right.

I actually just asked him about showing the rules, stating the customers could easily just use Warhammer models ("better" models that can be double-dipped and will likely add to selling more). It's like teaching someone to play Knight Models games with Heroclix models, and when they want better (or in this case more) models, they can get them. Being able to double-dip models for multiple games makes for happy gamers. And then they buy the rules. And possibly (hopefully) more models. And also, if you have customers taking an interest in something and wanting to build a group, let them try on their time and see if they can make you easy money. Don't blow em off. You lose nothing by letting a customer try to cultivate a new game (maybe a line on the store flier) and gather interest. You lose sales when you tell a customer that you couldn't care less about letting them try to cultivate a game they like.

I'm an entrepreneur, and I can tell you that anything you put time in has a cost.

Spending even one minute attempting to please anyone who cares about KoW, where the rules make no money and the game is so niche that you'd be happy to make 500 bucks profit over a year - is a waste of time.

Just "supporting" you would've cost him more than the money it could've brought it, and worse, your attempt to stimulate a form of enjoyment that doesn't bring cash in would've taken away interest from games that do.

Believe me, go start a business and you'll see his point - you may be more polite and soft about it, but still...

morgoth wrote:
I'm an entrepreneur, and I can tell you that anything you put time in has a cost.

Spending even one minute attempting to please anyone who cares about KoW, where the rules make no money and the game is so niche that you'd be happy to make 500 bucks profit over a year - is a waste of time.

Just "supporting" you would've cost him more than the money it could've brought it, and worse, your attempt to stimulate a form of enjoyment that doesn't bring cash in would've taken away interest from games that do.

Believe me, go start a business and you'll see his point - you may be more polite and soft about it, but still...

If you want to ignore the idea of supporting a community and focus purely on the profit numbers then why shouldn't your customers do the same? You can't beat the prices your potential customers can get on the internet, buying from you is an act of charity for a community they enjoy. Take away the community support and your "business" is dead.

Outside of Chicago there are a lot of good stores but a small minority I won't go back to. In Crystal Lake area, shops pop up and then go before you ever realize they existed in some cases. Affinity for Gaming has stuck around for a few years now though. Everytime I have gone in though, something odd is going on, mtg events where one player spends half the night sitting on the owner/employees lap (she was cute but questionably young and it seemed odd to my group at least). There were also allegations of a fire with another nearby store re: theft by a former employee or something. Now I'm even hearing rumors of drug usage from family that still frequent the shop.

I've never had problems like that at any of the other shops, and I've tried to spread my spending around to a certain degree.

 Peregrine wrote:

morgoth wrote:
I'm an entrepreneur, and I can tell you that anything you put time in has a cost.

Spending even one minute attempting to please anyone who cares about KoW, where the rules make no money and the game is so niche that you'd be happy to make 500 bucks profit over a year - is a waste of time.

Just "supporting" you would've cost him more than the money it could've brought it, and worse, your attempt to stimulate a form of enjoyment that doesn't bring cash in would've taken away interest from games that do.

Believe me, go start a business and you'll see his point - you may be more polite and soft about it, but still...

If you want to ignore the idea of supporting a community and focus purely on the profit numbers then why shouldn't your customers do the same? You can't beat the prices your potential customers can get on the internet, buying from you is an act of charity for a community they enjoy. Take away the community support and your "business" is dead.

Imagine you're a business owner.

You have limited time and resources, like all humans.

You have the choice between investing in a community / game that makes money.
And one that doesn't.

You still have to pay the bills at the end of the month, and any money you don't make is vacations you don't take, etc.

If you can't get that... I don't know, just give me your time and resources and I'll put them to good use - or something.

 Peregrine wrote:

morgoth wrote:
I'm an entrepreneur, and I can tell you that anything you put time in has a cost.

Spending even one minute attempting to please anyone who cares about KoW, where the rules make no money and the game is so niche that you'd be happy to make 500 bucks profit over a year - is a waste of time.

Just "supporting" you would've cost him more than the money it could've brought it, and worse, your attempt to stimulate a form of enjoyment that doesn't bring cash in would've taken away interest from games that do.

Believe me, go start a business and you'll see his point - you may be more polite and soft about it, but still...

If you want to ignore the idea of supporting a community and focus purely on the profit numbers then why shouldn't your customers do the same? You can't beat the prices your potential customers can get on the internet, buying from you is an act of charity for a community they enjoy. Take away the community support and your "business" is dead.

This, this statement is what every brick and mortar store needs to understand. I can get lower prices just about anywhere on the internet, what I cannot do on the internet is get a group of people who are interested in playing games together on a physical table top. Brick and mortar stores provide community, it is the only advantage they have and they need to leverage that as much as they can.

 vonjankmon wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

morgoth wrote:
I'm an entrepreneur, and I can tell you that anything you put time in has a cost.

Spending even one minute attempting to please anyone who cares about KoW, where the rules make no money and the game is so niche that you'd be happy to make 500 bucks profit over a year - is a waste of time.

Just "supporting" you would've cost him more than the money it could've brought it, and worse, your attempt to stimulate a form of enjoyment that doesn't bring cash in would've taken away interest from games that do.

Believe me, go start a business and you'll see his point - you may be more polite and soft about it, but still...

If you want to ignore the idea of supporting a community and focus purely on the profit numbers then why shouldn't your customers do the same? You can't beat the prices your potential customers can get on the internet, buying from you is an act of charity for a community they enjoy. Take away the community support and your "business" is dead.

This, this statement is what every brick and mortar store needs to understand. I can get lower prices just about anywhere on the internet, what I cannot do on the internet is get a group of people who are interested in playing games together on a physical table top. Brick and mortar stores provide community, it is the only advantage they have and they need to leverage that as much as they can.

And what every gamer needs to understand is that a community of 15 miniature game players who together bring in about 450 bucks of business, or about 150 bucks of gross margin a month, hardly justify the floor and shelf space + stock investment.

morgoth wrote:

 vonjankmon wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

morgoth wrote:
I'm an entrepreneur, and I can tell you that anything you put time in has a cost.

Spending even one minute attempting to please anyone who cares about KoW, where the rules make no money and the game is so niche that you'd be happy to make 500 bucks profit over a year - is a waste of time.

Just "supporting" you would've cost him more than the money it could've brought it, and worse, your attempt to stimulate a form of enjoyment that doesn't bring cash in would've taken away interest from games that do.

Believe me, go start a business and you'll see his point - you may be more polite and soft about it, but still...

If you want to ignore the idea of supporting a community and focus purely on the profit numbers then why shouldn't your customers do the same? You can't beat the prices your potential customers can get on the internet, buying from you is an act of charity for a community they enjoy. Take away the community support and your "business" is dead.

This, this statement is what every brick and mortar store needs to understand. I can get lower prices just about anywhere on the internet, what I cannot do on the internet is get a group of people who are interested in playing games together on a physical table top. Brick and mortar stores provide community, it is the only advantage they have and they need to leverage that as much as they can.

And what every gamer needs to understand is that a community of 15 miniature game players who together bring in about 450 bucks of business, or about 150 bucks of gross margin a month, hardly justify the floor and shelf space + stock investment.

With nurturing of a community, those 15 might become 30, bringing you $900 of business.

Without nurturing a community, those 15 become 0, and give their money to their online store of choice and play in a garage.

Tabletop wargaming is an inherently social hobby, both between the players playing and the venue. People go to a store and buy stuff there and play there for the community aspect, otherwise they just play in a garage. If you don't give them the community aspect, they give you no money at all. Not only for the game you're refusing to support, but also on any future games.

Yeah, but you're talking about nurturing a community, or rather a potential community at the expense (in time and money terms) of an existing community. Giving up a certainty for a maybe doesn't make any sense.

If he wouldn't even let you play KoW in the shop then I'd see where you're coming from.

A store not stocking something that won't make money is fine. A store refusing to let people play something they won't stock is not. This is a big reason why I feel that game clubs like they have in the UK need to come more to the US, so that clubs aren't at the mercy of a store who can decide if you can/can't meet there on a certain day, or tell you that there's no room at the shop for your small group of 6 to play because there's a Magic tournament going on.

I've seen stores state flat out, no games other than what we stock are allowed here because we don't sell it. I've seen stores require any game to be organized through them with specified days to play at the store, and then deny a group that they feel is popular enough to warrant a day.

 oni wrote:

 infinite_array wrote:

 Necros wrote:
When these kinds of posts pop up, i'm always thankful I've never had any kind of bad FLGS experience. Maybe the Philly area just has more competent game shop owners

Personally my favorite is Showcase Comics & Games. Now that I just moved (again) I'm way too far away though :( There's a newer place nearby that I want to check out, but they seem more geared toward paying to play video games there, with a couple of tabletop nights mixed in, and I think that's usually for MTG. But I'll stop in and check em out sooner or later.

Showcase, Stomping Grounds, Redcaps, 7th Dimension, and probably others that I'm missing - Philly area gamers are kinda spoiled when it comes to gaming.

I agree that Philly area players are spoiled, but that 2nd one doesn't qualify in my opinion. When was the last time you've been to Stomping Grounds? I stopped in a few months ago after not being there for about two years (was in the area and was curious how they've managed); Without going into detail, I was shocked at just how bad the state of things were, but honestly not very surprised.

About every week or so? I'm curious as to why you think the "state of things" was so bad.

 infinite_array wrote:

 oni wrote:

 infinite_array wrote:

 Necros wrote:
When these kinds of posts pop up, i'm always thankful I've never had any kind of bad FLGS experience. Maybe the Philly area just has more competent game shop owners

Personally my favorite is Showcase Comics & Games. Now that I just moved (again) I'm way too far away though :( There's a newer place nearby that I want to check out, but they seem more geared toward paying to play video games there, with a couple of tabletop nights mixed in, and I think that's usually for MTG. But I'll stop in and check em out sooner or later.

Showcase, Stomping Grounds, Redcaps, 7th Dimension, and probably others that I'm missing - Philly area gamers are kinda spoiled when it comes to gaming.

I agree that Philly area players are spoiled, but that 2nd one doesn't qualify in my opinion. When was the last time you've been to Stomping Grounds? I stopped in a few months ago after not being there for about two years (was in the area and was curious how they've managed); Without going into detail, I was shocked at just how bad the state of things were, but honestly not very surprised.

About every week or so? I'm curious as to why you think the "state of things" was so bad.

Perhaps you've not been going there long enough to know what the store used to be like? When I stopped in; most of their inventory was gone... Bare walls. No new product, items obviously not being restocked... And what was left on the shelves was really old. Things looked so bleak compared to when I used to visit the store frequently that I thought they might be moving to a different location, but that's not the case as far as I know.

 oni wrote:

Perhaps you've not been going there long enough to know what the store used to be like? When I stopped in; most of their inventory was gone... Bare walls. No new product, items obviously not being restocked... And what was left on the shelves was really old. Things looked so bleak compared to when I used to visit the store frequently that I thought they might be moving to a different location, but that's not the case as far as I know.

Oh, yeah. The walls used to have a lot more stuff, but since a lot of the Fantasy and Warmachine/Hordes stuff has been removed from the walls and taken to the owner's house for storage.

I'll be honest - it's a store that stays open due to the Magic crowd. But the miniature gamers are mostly alright, and their purchases are handled on a more request-and-purchase nature, so a lot of stuff doesn't sit on the shelves.

 JonnyDelta wrote:
Outside of Chicago there are a lot of good stores

I just moved to the west suburbs of Chicago, so if you have any recommendations of good shops out that way, I'd love to hear them.

MarkNorfolk wrote:
Yeah, but you're talking about nurturing a community, or rather a potential community at the expense (in time and money terms) of an existing community. Giving up a certainty for a maybe doesn't make any sense.

It's just another aspect of what you need to juggle running a game store. There are always going to be lots of new or niche games that people are into and whether it's worthwhile to invest time and effort into cultivating them. If it was easy to figure out which games are going to have a great community and be a money maker, they're wouldn't be so many games that pop up and fade away

There's a LGS here that was going downhill 10-12 years ago but is somehow still around. To even call them a gaming store is a bit of a misnomer, as they're really just a CCG store at this point.

Their tiny wall of gaming stuff is mostly OOP GW and WM/H leftovers sprinkled with the odd new piece someone on staff got excited about, and their GW is priced five cents cheaper than retail as a legacy of the owner's lame attempt to compete with GW when they briefly had a store in town. They're so out of touch that they're even still trying to sell a box of the old Ork Stikkbombas for more than the box of Ork Boyz next to it. Same number of models, fewer bits, costs $9.95 more. Because discounts!

I'm seeing a genuinely surprising number of reports of 'pay to play' stores.

Perhaps I'm just spoiled having a GW close by, but I really can't think of a worse idea.

The games being played are your advertising. They do that job in the way no other advertising can do. When we humans see other humans enjoying an activity, we're naturally intrigued. Part of our pack nature stuff.

I mean, I get that there's overheads to be paid, and having ample gaming space comes at a premium. But blimey.

In terms of stock - don't forget it's damned hard to predict what's going to sell, and the stock chosen is based on a sales pitch by a company rep. What turns out to sell slowly in one store could be the proverbial hot cakes in the next town over.

Then there's personal enthusiasm. That counts for a lot. Most GW Till Monkeys and Managers work for GW because they've got a passion for the games. Now that's easy to recruit for.

But if it's your own store, it's difficult to sell a game you yourself don't have an affinity for. It doesn't matter how good the game is, or how gorgeous the models are. If you just can't 'get it', then you'll struggle to promote it. So there's a higher risk the product won't sell, because you can't figure out how to sell it. Conversely, if you don't carry 'The Next Big Thing', that could drive people away from your store. If I swing by to pick up say, Wave 284667375 of X-Wing, and you stopped carrying it at Wave 6, it's entirely likely I'll abort mission and go to the next nearest store.

It ain't easy running a business, let alone one as niche as a Nerd Shop! Profits aren't exactly high, and investing in a game that bombs could put you on the skids.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
A store that has no open play...unless you pay 300$ a year, even then you are not guranteed your table
A store that buys tons of the same models, Clearences the rest, then never buy more because it was a "Bad seller"
A store where they dont carry any diverse product, Then get mad when you buy models online.
A store whose owner insults, belittles and bemoans his community
time for another store
A Store where it would be a great place.....if it was orginized and cleaned and they got rid of all the recycling cans in bags in the back and dusted the shelves

Heh. Are you in the East bay area? I think I know the store you are talking about.

 Bookwrack wrote:
It reminds me of the worst store I'd ever been to (I was on a trip and just stopped in because I saw it as I walked by).Lots of GW stuff with sprues and open boxes scattered around, scattered game books and papers cluttering things up, and when I walked in, the clerk/owner/whoever he was and a couple friends stopped talking and just stared at me like I'd just walked into their house and started poking around, instead of a game store with an 'open' sign in the window. No 'F' in that LGS, that's for sure!

No, there's an 'F' there all right. "Failing" local game store.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

morgoth wrote:
And what every gamer needs to understand is that a community of 15 miniature game players who together bring in about 450 bucks of business, or about 150 bucks of gross margin a month, hardly justify the floor and shelf space + stock investment.

How much money does a community of 0 gamers bringing in 0 bucks of business or 0 bucks of gross margin justify? By your logic no game store should ever carry anything OTHER than CCGs.

There is no such thing as a worst game store. The only thing worse than the worst game store is no game store.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
A store that has no open play...unless you pay 300$ a year, even then you are not guranteed your table
A store that buys tons of the same models, Clearences the rest, then never buy more because it was a "Bad seller"
A store where they dont carry any diverse product, Then get mad when you buy models online.
A store whose owner insults, belittles and bemoans his community
time for another store
A Store where it would be a great place.....if it was orginized and cleaned and they got rid of all the recycling cans in bags in the back and dusted the shelves

Heh. Are you in the East bay area? I think I know the store you are talking about.

Yup. It was the 300$ thing wasnt it?

Woah..reading this is realize I've been spoiled.

My local store is run by one of the nicest men I've ever met. He walked me through my first game of 40k, never once pressuring me to buy anything. He makes an effort to get to know his customers, anytime someone new walks in on game night he always greets them with a handshake, smile, and some friendly words.

One time, it was storming pretty bad, lightning hit a Transformer, and the power goes out. The store owner, without even a hint of hesitation, yells out, "40k players! Night Fighting rules are now in effect," and then went back to what he was doing.

I stay at my university most of the time, but it's well worth the trip home to give him my business.