Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Aaranis wrote:
I'd rather have our own vehicle than using the 30 years old sprues personally :/ I'd see a tough vehicle for the AdMech, albeit slower (like 10" move ?) but more heavily armed than a Rhino. A blend of a Rhino and Land Raider stat-wise.

I never get this tbh. Skitarii use Rhinos in the fluff, and that actually made them special because the once-ubiquitous vehicle has passed into the honoured relic category thanks to the Mechanicus' creeping decline into ignorance, but the Skitarii were still able to use them like the Space Marines. If we keep adding newshiny in for every single minifaction even when there's no actual background justification for it beyond "it's kewl tho" or "GW gotta sell dem models" it's just another nail in the coffin of 40K's supposed status as a terminally declining dystopia setting. You can get away with adding newshiny for stuff like GSC because they're getting something genuinely new that we hadn't seen before in an official kit - reclaimed and refitted civilian vehicles - but the Rhino/Chimera/Russ STC hull triad for Imperial military vehicles is supposed to be the basis for almost all such vehicles. The last thing we need is for them to follow the same model for all other vehicles that they have done for fliers where every single Imperial faction gets multiple special snowflake fliers of their very own even when they have to throw out existing lore to jam them in there.

As I say, if they absolutely have to sell a new kit, draw from the existing background and do a variant Rhino like the Advancer, and if people want esoteric, wierd, rare stuff that doesn't fit with the rest of the 40K tone(whatever's left of it these days) they can have all the deco-gothic beatle-backed madness they like when FW put out FoC and give us the 30K units.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
I'd rather have our own vehicle than using the 30 years old sprues personally :/ I'd see a tough vehicle for the AdMech, albeit slower (like 10" move ?) but more heavily armed than a Rhino. A blend of a Rhino and Land Raider stat-wise.

I never get this tbh. Skitarii use Rhinos in the fluff, and that actually made them special because the once-ubiquitous vehicle has passed into the honoured relic category thanks to the Mechanicus' creeping decline into ignorance, but the Skitarii were still able to use them like the Space Marines. If we keep adding newshiny in for every single minifaction even when there's no actual background justification for it beyond "it's kewl tho" or "GW gotta sell dem models" it's just another nail in the coffin of 40K's supposed status as a terminally declining dystopia setting. You can get away with adding newshiny for stuff like GSC because they're getting something genuinely new that we hadn't seen before in an official kit - reclaimed and refitted civilian vehicles - but the Rhino/Chimera/Russ STC hull triad for Imperial military vehicles is supposed to be the basis for almost all such vehicles. The last thing we need is for them to follow the same model for all other vehicles that they have done for fliers where every single Imperial faction gets multiple special snowflake fliers of their very own even when they have to throw out existing lore to jam them in there.

As I say, if they absolutely have to sell a new kit, draw from the existing background and do a variant Rhino like the Advancer, and if people want esoteric, wierd, rare stuff that doesn't fit with the rest of the 40K tone(whatever's left of it these days) they can have all the deco-gothic beatle-backed madness they like when FW put out FoC and give us the 30K units.

While I don't mind the odd variant vehicle for the Ravenwing/Deathwatch/etc, everything else you say here is totally on point.

Nope, new fluff is that Cawl creates brand new vehicles without the need of silly STCs! Who needs the Emperor or the dark age of technology when you have Cawl?

Through sheer force of will did he pop out a Repulsor Tank for Bobby G

 Kirasu wrote:
Nope, new fluff is that Cawl creates brand new vehicles without the need of silly STCs! Who needs the Emperor or the dark age of technology when you have Cawl?

Through sheer force of will did he pop out a Repulsor Tank for Bobby G

Which is just a Land Raider and a Land Speeder mashed together with the grace and finesse of a Great Unclean One.

I wish we would at least get the Land Raider. I kinda might paint my MkIIB one in Metalica colors anyhow at this point, because it is just too rad.

To be fair, I think the Repulsor is fitting with how I think Cawl operates. He just wants to build things and in an age of ignorance, he wouldn't know aesthetics. He's like a child with Lego blocks kinda.

 Kirasu wrote:
Nope, new fluff is that Cawl creates brand new vehicles without the need of silly STCs! Who needs the Emperor or the dark age of technology when you have Cawl?

Through sheer force of will did he pop out a Repulsor Tank for Bobby G

Well it's been hinted half his stuff is stolen alien tech. He just changes the paint job on it and claims it was a rediscovered stc fragment. Most of the primaris genetic modifications and weapons appear to be simplified and easier to construct versions of custodes equivalents, supplemented by again some alien tech here and there. Nothing Cawl has done was that unreasonable, he's managed to merely dial back the regression of technology in an extremely limited way for a particularly small subset of warriors.

 alleus wrote:
So basically I just want to use my 30k Mechanicum in 40k as well. Fires of Cyraxus, please? It might not add all the models though, that's hihgly unlikely, but still. A man can dream.

Is Fires of Cyraxus confirmed to be 7th or 8th edition? Or is it confirmed at all? With all the delays and the publishing of a new edition, I'd guess it would be the first 8th edition FW book.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
To be fair, I think the Repulsor is fitting with how I think Cawl operates. He just wants to build things and in an age of ignorance, he wouldn't know aesthetics. He's like a child with Lego blocks kinda.

What? He's been around for TEN THOUSAND!!!! Years.. Pretty sure he knows how things operate, look, etc. It doesn't matter if he kitbashes it, they have no way to mass produce the vehicle because it's not a STC. IE why his entire storyline is one big fluff failure but GW doesn't care about that as all characters are written to only sell the new models.

 warboss wrote:

 alleus wrote:
So basically I just want to use my 30k Mechanicum in 40k as well. Fires of Cyraxus, please? It might not add all the models though, that's hihgly unlikely, but still. A man can dream.

Is Fires of Cyraxus confirmed to be 7th or 8th edition? Or is it confirmed at all? With all the delays and the publishing of a new edition, I'd guess it would be the first 8th edition FW book.

Confirmed for 8th, rumoured to be 99% finished and to be released once 'Marine, AdMech and Tau Codexes are out'.

beast_gts wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 alleus wrote:
So basically I just want to use my 30k Mechanicum in 40k as well. Fires of Cyraxus, please? It might not add all the models though, that's hihgly unlikely, but still. A man can dream.

Is Fires of Cyraxus confirmed to be 7th or 8th edition? Or is it confirmed at all? With all the delays and the publishing of a new edition, I'd guess it would be the first 8th edition FW book.

Confirmed for 8th, rumoured to be 99% finished and to be released once 'Marine, AdMech and Tau Codexes are out'.

Thanks. That makes sense so I give FW about a 50/50 chance of actually doing it according to that timeframe.

 warboss wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
Confirmed for 8th, rumoured to be 99% finished and to be released once 'Marine, AdMech and Tau Codexes are out'.

Thanks. That makes sense so I give FW about a 50/50 chance of actually doing it according to that timeframe.

It was repeated at the FW & Specialist Games Open Day on 13/08/17, so I'm hoping it's still on track...

Its confirmed, but i hear its on hold since the guy who was apparently doing all the work at FW died, and FW is kindof losing its mind now regarding books and rules

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Its confirmed, but i hear its on hold since the guy who was apparently doing all the work at FW died, and FW is kindof losing its mind now regarding books and rules

Alan Bligh (who wrote the HH stuff) died, and some of the other rules writers have been moved over to Specialist Games (Andy Hoare, for example). They're recruiting more rules writers.

The fluff side of Fires of Cyraxus is apparently finished, and the rules side was waiting on the Marine, AdMech and Tau Codexes - so we're two-thirds of the way there!

Personally I absolutely loathe the rhino and land raider models. I didn't choose admech for my army because i wanted another imperium variant. Fluff wise, as I recall, they pretty much only agreed to build stuff for the imperium to save their own backsides. It's not how they roll.

Octovol wrote:
Personally I absolutely loathe the rhino and land raider models. I didn't choose admech for my army because i wanted another imperium variant. Fluff wise, as I recall, they pretty much only agreed to build stuff for the imperium to save their own backsides. It's not how they roll.

They used Land Raiders in the Heresy, so that would be a useful justification. I want other stuff, but I will settle for that if I have to.

Would be neat to see a Skitarii HQ choice, along the lines of the main character from that awful tie-in novel that was released alongside the codex back then. IIRC he had an extra set of arms and dual wielded pistols and arc mauls.

Well to be fair the fluff is not always a reliable source of future models, in the very codex of Skitarii in 7th Edition and in the novels "Skitarii" and "Tech-Priest" they use the damn Dunecrawlers as open-topped transports from page 1. I'd love myself some open-topped transports too, just bash a new rule on the Dunecrawler and there you go.

I admit I didn't read much novels so my informations are not up to date, but as I remember the AdMech always had their own stuff, and some they don't share with the Imperium. They still keep the best stuff for themselves as the greedy madmen they are.

Although with the abomination that is Belisarius Cawl we might as well get antigrav Kastelan Robots as far as we know it. I don't remember any mention of a Tech-Priest that lived TEN THOUSAND YEARS. Hundreds at most. And now here he is, pumping out inventions from nowhere. I'll be glad if we can get rid of him somewhat on tabletop. I want to play a regular greedy and insane Tech-Priest.

 Kirasu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
To be fair, I think the Repulsor is fitting with how I think Cawl operates. He just wants to build things and in an age of ignorance, he wouldn't know aesthetics. He's like a child with Lego blocks kinda.

What? He's been around for TEN THOUSAND!!!! Years.. Pretty sure he knows how things operate, look, etc. It doesn't matter if he kitbashes it, they have no way to mass produce the vehicle because it's not a STC. IE why his entire storyline is one big fluff failure but GW doesn't care about that as all characters are written to only sell the new models.

Knowing how things operate isn't the same as knowing what looks good. At all.

Striker pronounced by a old as shot tech priest boss, STRIKER UNIT.

 Kirasu wrote:
Nope, new fluff is that Cawl creates brand new vehicles without the need of silly STCs! Who needs the Emperor or the dark age of technology when you have Cawl?

Through sheer force of will did he pop out a Repulsor Tank for Bobby G

Uh, yeah. That might happen later, but it's not going to happen in September. Which has been my entire point.

I can see an admech repulsor to happen. Because it would just fit to admech but more important GW want to sell new models and that way they could boost the sales of it.

Either way if they want Forge World to do more sales they should totally mix up 30k and 40k units. I don't believe they'll be in this codex because as far as I know they never had FW products in a GW book, so Fires of Cyraxus it is then.

 Kirasu wrote:
It doesn't matter if he kitbashes it, they have no way to mass produce the vehicle because it's not a STC. IE why his entire storyline is one big fluff failure but GW doesn't care about that as all characters are written to only sell the new models.

STCs have nothing to do with the ability to mass produce items.

Octovol wrote:
Personally I absolutely loathe the rhino and land raider models. I didn't choose admech for my army because i wanted another imperium variant. Fluff wise, as I recall, they pretty much only agreed to build stuff for the imperium to save their own backsides. It's not how they roll.

You may not like it, but yourself and Aaranis are misremembering - the Mechanicus had strange and esoteric tech denied to the rest of the Imperium in addition to the standard STC patterns available to other Imperial forces, but their main benefit was in being able to fully equip whole armies with gear that's reserved for elite formations in the wider Imperium(like, for example, Rhinos), and not an insignificant amount of those extra goodies would be variants of standard STC patterns; for example, a Ryzian Cataphractoi division might be fully equipped with the extremely rare Leman Russ Executioner and their versions might even have some additional bit of tech meaning there's no risk of overload. A Martian division might even have a full roster of Deimos Predators. Up until the frankly ridiculous guff in the Skitarii codex("nah brah, they just walk everywhere, and if it's far away they start walking sooner, lulz" ) the easiest way to think of how the Skitarii were presented was to think of the tech level of the Imperial Army during the Great Crusade-era. For the wider Imperium, the once-ubiquitous equipment like Rhinos and Land Raiders became reserved for elite troops and the less common gear became priceless and irreplaceable relics; for the Mechanicus they had to downgrade to "only" the tech level of the old Imperial Army, and the really crazy stuff bristling with neutron lasers and darkfire cannons etc became their equivalent of a Relic Contemptor.

As to why they work with the Imperium, again you misremember - there were three broad lines of thought in the old Mechanicum. The first held that the Emperor was the Omnissiah, the incarnate Machine God, and so the Mechanicum should serve his Imperium; the second held that the Emperor was a powerful mortal genius and the Mechanicum should ally with him for as long as that proved beneficial; the third(much smaller) faction considered the Emperor a usurper adopting the mantle of their god to manipulate and control them. The third group mostly allied with Horus and became the Dark Mechanicum, the second group were forced into a binary choice(aha ) by the circumstances and drifted over to the third or the first, and the first ended up as the utterly dominant majority in what would become the Adeptus Mechanicus. An interesting way to think of the relationship is in terms of the United Kingdom - you could draw a parallel between the pre-Heresy situation and how Scotland and England became "related" but not yet conjoined after the Union of the Crowns(distinct entities with own governments but the same royal head of state), and between the post-Heresy situation and the conception of how the United Kingdom was "sold"(a single composite state comprised of multiple nations with a unified government and single royal head of state), though not with how it actually ended up/was intended(the absorbsion of the smaller entity into a unitary state that was, functionally, an extention of the larger entity).

The whole concept of STC's is an idea I wouldn't mind seeing retconned out of existence. I'm sure that back when GW only made 2 vehicle kits, the rhino and the landraider, the whole idea of STC was invented to justify why every army used exactly the same vehicles, i.e. to sell more models.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
The whole concept of STC's is an idea I wouldn't mind seeing retconned out of existence. I'm sure that back when GW only made 2 vehicle kits, the rhino and the landraider, the whole idea of STC was invented to justify why every army used exactly the same vehicles, i.e. to sell more models.

Not really - STC was there from the start as a example of how the Imperium works (or rather doesn't) - originally they had not even intended to sell actual vehicles - at most bikes - they had a huge section in Rogue Trader to tell you have to make vehicles from odds and ends

but eventually they brought out a Land Raider kit but it was a big thing.

I like the STC aspect and it means there are plenty of story hooks for the Ad Mech and their exploratory as well as politicizing between Imperium powers.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
The whole concept of STC's is an idea I wouldn't mind seeing retconned out of existence. I'm sure that back when GW only made 2 vehicle kits, the rhino and the landraider, the whole idea of STC was invented to justify why every army used exactly the same vehicles, i.e. to sell more models.

Not really - STC was there from the start as a example of how the Imperium works (or rather doesn't) - originally they had not even intended to sell actual vehicles - at most bikes - they had a huge section in Rogue Trader to tell you have to make vehicles from odds and ends

but eventually they brought out a Land Raider kit but it was a big thing.

I like the STC aspect and it means there are plenty of story hooks for the Ad Mech and their exploratory as well as politicizing between Imperium powers.

STC's were mentioned in Rogue Trader? I had forgotten that.

I think the idea of STCs is fine as a concept and it provides an explanation as to why all Imperial vehicles, from every part of the Imperium follow the same design. What I don't like though, is when some people try to use it to straightjacket the designers. I've heard people basically arguing that if it isn't already in the background, then GW are going against their own fluff when they come out with something new.

I'm excited for ths, I had bought an Admech lot as my second army after Death Guard. I just hope that it removes the "need" to take Cawl; I ordered him off eBay but I don't like being forced to take a character.

As far as transports go i wouldn't mind seeing a rhino or a variant like the already mentioned advancer, or the iron fist from the forge of mars series. IF we were to get a land raider variant I would hope we get the Proteus since it was the original design from the STC discovered by Arkhan Land, or even the armored proteus, both with some admech flair. All just remains to be seen i guess, I'll be happy if we just get the automata and triaros.

As for the actual codex I wonder what will get nerfed & buffed. I suspect kastelans will get nerfed (I hope they don't) I wouldn't mind a slight movement increase for electro priest.

Personally, I think it would be cool if Ad Mech got their own, new model as a transport or a flyer.

Much more than playing the game I found that I enjoy modeling, painting, and seeing how things look on the table.

Anything that differentiates armies on the table better is fine by me. Would love to see a totally weird crawler-style transport to match the Onager Dunecrawlers or maybe a flying transport like a Chinook helicopter with more skulls and spindly wires