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GoatboyBeta wrote:
The Imperium has ten thousand years of history give or take and spans the entire galaxy. Plenty of room for changes and variations in its armed forces. Especially given the "current" events of the setting.

Sorry this is from way back but I had to respond to this.

As a huge huge HUGE Ad-mech fan from way back in the Rt era fluff that is the one thing I really liked about the Mechanicum, the fact that they didn't change. Since the Unification Wars ended his first stop was Mars so he could do his whole " Hey BTW I'm your God, yes God with a capital "G", now makes lots of stuffs to arm my totally loyal Super Solders as we go Galaxy puldering looking for my lost Sons and any cool Archo-Tech STC's we find and any colony's that you sent out during the last 5000 years are all yours."

They have been the Admech for about 5000 years at this point and one thing the Admech hate is change. So it's not in-conceivable that not much has changed in the next 10,000 years. Of course there would be some progress but not much in the way of "hey lets totally ditch all of our rides " land raiders, rhinos, pimped up Admechy LR's and Rhinos, cool grav tech they keep to themselves, ALL imperial Tanks even those that where Legion Specific 10,000 years ago and yet this ditch all that because it's "Cool to walk everywhere"?

The Dune Crawlers are kinda cool, not my cup of Tea honestly but they do look Mechanicy They feel Mechanicy . The Ironstrider's just don't, I mean they look cool, they look Mechanicy but they don't make sence an then toss in "Walking is cool now" and it's just a WTF and it really didn't add anything to the army feel wise.

The 30k stuff does tho, it just screams Mechanicum, it screams "Crazy Flesh Hating Machine loving while trying to shead the weak flesh" model wise to me. The Ironstrider doesn't and along with " walk everywhere" it just screamed Buy New Models now!!!! instead of what it could of been " Add cool new models that expand on the fluff that came before it" I think Grav Rhino's could of been a fantastic new model. It's still a Rhino but it's a Grav Rhino which could of been a really cool kit with all the new 3-D sculpting technology GW uses.

Assault 3 lasguns are not to be sniffed at, the other gun needs buffed

Rhinos can't be cool. They are boxes. It doesn't matter if they fly, or swim, or jump like a rabbit. If every Imperial faction has to have the EXACT SAME vehicles... oh damm.

#NoMoreRhinos

gendoikari87 wrote:
Assault 3 lasguns are not to be sniffed at, the other gun needs buffed

Context matters. The reason lasguns work is because you take them in droves on cheap infantry that with a single character won't break after a few guys die. Our infantry is expensive, dies to the first morale test (forcing us into small squads we can afford to lose), and has no transport options. So comparing their gun just to lasguns does a disservice to the issues Skitarii has.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Assault 3 lasguns are not to be sniffed at, the other gun needs buffed

Context matters. The reason lasguns work is because you take them in droves on cheap infantry that with a single character won't break after a few guys die. Our infantry is expensive, dies to the first morale test (forcing us into small squads we can afford to lose), and has no transport options. So comparing their gun just to lasguns does a disservice to the issues Skitarii has.

it's an apt analogy though skitarii are 2x the cost of a guardsmen, get twice the shots (1-2 for lasgun vs 3 for the radium) sort of shorter range but better save.

And I mean the profile is literally a lasgun with assault 3 and 18" range


Oh and skitarii have better bs. So it's apt


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Only difference is guardsmen get a gak ton of bodies to go through

 FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:
The 30k stuff does tho, it just screams Mechanicum, it screams "Crazy Flesh Hating Machine loving while trying to shead the weak flesh" model wise to me. The Ironstrider doesn't and along with " walk everywhere" it just screamed Buy New Models now!!!! instead of what it could of been " Add cool new models that expand on the fluff that came before it" I think Grav Rhino's could of been a fantastic new model. It's still a Rhino but it's a Grav Rhino which could of been a really cool kit with all the new 3-D sculpting technology GW uses.

Bit odd to complain about the whole "walking everywhere" thing then praise FW when their mechanicum have more or less then same thing going.

They've got a single transport admittedly, but just the one and most of their units don't really want or need one. It's also one that actually matches their aesthetic in a way no rhino ever would. Not that any rhino would ever match any aesthetic because it's a shoebox with treads. Compare that to the literal tank engine inspired transport mechanicum have. It might be a bit on the nose for the steampunk asthetic, but it still fits.

Let's also be honest, the mechanicum keeps the best stuff for itself. One look at a rhino should be enough to confirm t is not the best stuff. It isn't even the second best. If they need a transport, let's make it something worth having.

gendoikari87 wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Assault 3 lasguns are not to be sniffed at, the other gun needs buffed

Context matters. The reason lasguns work is because you take them in droves on cheap infantry that with a single character won't break after a few guys die. Our infantry is expensive, dies to the first morale test (forcing us into small squads we can afford to lose), and has no transport options. So comparing their gun just to lasguns does a disservice to the issues Skitarii has.

it's an apt analogy though skitarii are 2x the cost of a guardsmen, get twice the shots (1-2 for lasgun vs 3 for the radium) sort of shorter range but better save.

And I mean the profile is literally a lasgun with assault 3 and 18" range


Oh and skitarii have better bs. So it's apt


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Only difference is guardsmen get a gak ton of bodies to go through

No, it isn't. Context counts. Ld7 without Commissars is crushing. It means you don't see much beyond Blandguard. And hell, even those aren't as good as just taking Dragoons. Assault 3 18" range is good and all, but with FRFSRF, Guard can crank out three shots too - because they have the support needed to have their infantry units function in a useful and fluffy way. Skitarii just die - either to firepower or morale. The latter being egregious considering their fear-centers of the brain are removed! Plus, without transports, we can't close the gap to use those 18" guns while Guard can sit back and shoot 24" or hop in a Chimera and roll up with their special weapons.

All in all, Skitarii need a point reduction (8ppm wouldn't be unrealistic, as it would be just twice the cost of a Guardsman). And they need some sort of Fearless equivalent. If they had those, they would be viable in larger squads and lean into their special weapon options a bit.

Bring back enhanced data-tethers, perhaps? Reroll failed leadership?

 Verviedi wrote:
Bring back enhanced data-tethers, perhaps? Reroll failed leadership?

We have that option, but it costs 1pt shy of another dude, which is a hefty tax on an overpriced unit. And you can have a BSDT on the Onagers that do help, but it doesn't change their overall crappiness.

 Verviedi wrote:
Bring back enhanced data-tethers, perhaps? Reroll failed leadership?

Just give us morale immunity like every other army. Either by setting our base leadership high enough 5 man squads don't worry about it or by giving us a source of outright morale immunity. Paying for rerolls or token boosts when most armies don't have to deal with it is a major issue with our army, alongside our already overpriced units.

The idea morale "matters" this edition has been thoroughly debunked already. It's an actual issue for maybe a fourth of the armies in the game and those armies aren't very good.

Who said the 8 kastelans were in 1 unit? :s 2 units of 4 close enough to cover the distance with heldrake's base. Charge+pile in+ consolidate = 14+ inches of movement.

Anyway, back on topic, Reece said that "Ad Mech would make a big splash in the meta after the codex" but ofc take that with a pinch of salt as he usually says something along those lines

There is also multi-unit charging. A single unit can charge more than one thing at once so long as the targets are close enough together to allow the charging unit to get into base contact with both.

Positioning is important and if you screw it up it's easy for someone to take advantage. I only know because I'm the one always screwing it up

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Who said the 8 kastelans were in 1 unit? :s 2 units of 4 close enough to cover the distance with heldrake's base. Charge+pile in+ consolidate = 14+ inches of movement.

Anyway, back on topic, Reece said that "Ad Mech would make a big splash in the meta after the codex" but ofc take that with a pinch of salt as he usually says something along those lines

Specificity in a claim helps. Clearly, this guy was a noob. You should be nice to people just starting out with a faction. Especially one that isn't as top tier as Magnus and whatnot.

As for the Codex, I am hopeful, but the news that we get zero model support is a bit of a let down. The rules have a lot to make up for now.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Who said the 8 kastelans were in 1 unit? :s 2 units of 4 close enough to cover the distance with heldrake's base. Charge+pile in+ consolidate = 14+ inches of movement.

Anyway, back on topic, Reece said that "Ad Mech would make a big splash in the meta after the codex" but ofc take that with a pinch of salt as he usually says something along those lines

Specificity in a claim helps. Clearly, this guy was a noob. You should be nice to people just starting out with a faction. Especially one that isn't as top tier as Magnus and whatnot.

As for the Codex, I am hopeful, but the news that we get zero model support is a bit of a let down. The rules have a lot to make up for now.

Well when you hear "easiest game ever, I just bring a ton of kastelans and win", you really can't resist in stomping that out And now he brings dragoons and vanguards to screen. Mission accomplished \_o_/

Things that will get big points drops:

Skitarii
All servitors (hopefully)
Dominus

As they are all terrible. The guy who won BAO said that AdMech don't have any troops choices and I'm willing to agree

Yeah, the best way to field our army is a heavy support detachment of kastellans and dunecrawlers with Cawl leading, then a battalion of IG for troops and whatever else we might need. And that's still worse than just going straight IG because kastellans and dunecrawlers aren't even that good in a wider sense, just better than most of our army.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Who said the 8 kastelans were in 1 unit? :s 2 units of 4 close enough to cover the distance with heldrake's base. Charge+pile in+ consolidate = 14+ inches of movement.

Anyway, back on topic, Reece said that "Ad Mech would make a big splash in the meta after the codex" but ofc take that with a pinch of salt as he usually says something along those lines

Specificity in a claim helps. Clearly, this guy was a noob. You should be nice to people just starting out with a faction. Especially one that isn't as top tier as Magnus and whatnot.

As for the Codex, I am hopeful, but the news that we get zero model support is a bit of a let down. The rules have a lot to make up for now.

Well when you hear "easiest game ever, I just bring a ton of kastelans and win", you really can't resist in stomping that out And now he brings dragoons and vanguards to screen. Mission accomplished \_o_/

Things that will get big points drops:

Skitarii
All servitors (hopefully)
Dominus

As they are all terrible. The guy who won BAO said that AdMech don't have any troops choices and I'm willing to agree

You are the hero we deserve, sir. Anyone who does Kastelan spam has earned a beatdown.

And yea, I am hoping the Dominus gets a huge reduction. Same for Cawl, too - though most folks won't agree there, I am sure. They are pretty overpriced for what they do.

Kastelans are not bad. For the same points they beat a 5 man dev squad in every thing save for a handful of situations

SilverAlien wrote:

 FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:
The 30k stuff does tho, it just screams Mechanicum, it screams "Crazy Flesh Hating Machine loving while trying to shead the weak flesh" model wise to me. The Ironstrider doesn't and along with " walk everywhere" it just screamed Buy New Models now!!!! instead of what it could of been " Add cool new models that expand on the fluff that came before it" I think Grav Rhino's could of been a fantastic new model. It's still a Rhino but it's a Grav Rhino which could of been a really cool kit with all the new 3-D sculpting technology GW uses.

Bit odd to complain about the whole "walking everywhere" thing then praise FW when their mechanicum have more or less then same thing going.

They've got a single transport admittedly, but just the one and most of their units don't really want or need one. It's also one that actually matches their aesthetic in a way no rhino ever would. Not that any rhino would ever match any aesthetic because it's a shoebox with treads. Compare that to the literal tank engine inspired transport mechanicum have. It might be a bit on the nose for the steampunk asthetic, but it still fits.

Let's also be honest, the mechanicum keeps the best stuff for itself. One look at a rhino should be enough to confirm t is not the best stuff. It isn't even the second best. If they need a transport, let's make it something worth having.

Yeah but come on, we know the reason they didn't get a vehicle is because they got a ton of new kits when the army dropped. How hard would it of been to say in the dex " oh btw heres the rules for the rhino, here is a chart with stuff for points build your own cool Rhino or Land Raider, just make sure its modeled so it looks like a Ad-Mech LR or Rhino. As long as it was close to/around the same size you could of made any kind of conversion as long as it had the same foot print as a Rhino or a Land Raider. Most people would of gone with the rule of cool instead of omg your gaming for advantage. Also they are two kits that are readily available. But sadly GW doesn't work like that anymore so because they couldn't/wouldn't/didn't make a vehicle kit we get the line about walking being good for a cyborg's health....

gendoikari87 wrote:
Kastelans are not bad. For the same points they beat a 5 man dev squad in every thing save for a handful of situations

Apples & Oranges.

That's a 5 man hb dev squad. With the data smith the out class the Deb's in hits per turn (or equal them) the have 1 more wound, higher toughness, better str and better ap on their guns the lack 3 attacks compared to the dev squad but are str 6

So really they only are outclassed by dev squads in weapons variety

And before I did admech I ran a marine spearhead with 3-6 dev squads, and they are not bad

I totally forgot that the Codex is going to have Questor Mechanicus in it. I wonder if they will be releasing any new models for that?

em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
Bring back enhanced data-tethers, perhaps? Reroll failed leadership?

We have that option, but it costs 1pt shy of another dude, which is a hefty tax on an overpriced unit. And you can have a BSDT on the Onagers that do help, but it doesn't change their overall crappiness.

Sorry, I forgot that it existed, for some reason. I recommend it gets dropped in points.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
Bring back enhanced data-tethers, perhaps? Reroll failed leadership?

Just give us morale immunity like every other army. Either by setting our base leadership high enough 5 man squads don't worry about it or by giving us a source of outright morale immunity. Paying for rerolls or token boosts when most armies don't have to deal with it is a major issue with our army, alongside our already overpriced units.

The idea morale "matters" this edition has been thoroughly debunked already. It's an actual issue for maybe a fourth of the armies in the game and those armies aren't very good.

I'd rather have nobody gets morale immunity other than Tyranids in synapse, and Orks in large blobs.

Qlanth wrote:
I totally forgot that the Codex is going to have Questor Mechanicus in it. I wonder if they will be releasing any new models for that?

Negative. We're getting the shaft that's what we get

 Verviedi wrote:
I'd rather have nobody gets morale immunity other than Tyranids in synapse, and Orks in large blobs.

Well that's a shame because it's already a bit late for that. Beyond the three armies with morale immunity in the indices (guard, orks, and bids) I've got morale immune cultists in my CSM army thanks to a warlord trait/Abaddon and fearless poxwalkers for my DG. Most of actual CSM dudes can just msu with ld 8, given they aren't as fragile as my bionic boys. Loyalist SM have access to fearless warlord traitnas well. The trend probably will just continue from here, with morale relics and HQs and psychic powers all trivializing what already started off as a fairly token attempt to keep morale relevant.

So yeah, it could be admech (and necrons) will continue to get kinda screwed by morale while everyone else laughs it off, but I'd rather hope the second team just moves on and doesn't keep our armies lacking in some token attempt to prove morale matters.

I'll agree with you. If all armies can't get their morale trivializing factors removed, AdMech should get them as well.

Anyone else think bionics should be a fnp type save instead of an invuln?i mean that's what they did with iron hands and it's the same thing

gendoikari87 wrote:
Anyone else think bionics should be a fnp type save instead of an invuln?i mean that's what they did with iron hands and it's the same thing

I do!

So death guard are getting their stratagems leaked .... why no mechanicus leaks? Something is off gw is unusually tight lipped about codex: adeptus mechanicus

Wtf mate?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean the grand total of what we know is this: release date, cawl gets his box, it will include knights, seven forge worlds............ then zip nada zilch

gendoikari87 wrote:
So death guard are getting their stratagems leaked .... why no mechanicus leaks? Something is off gw is unusually tight lipped about codex: adeptus mechanicus

Wtf mate?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean the grand total of what we know is this: release date, it will include knights, seven forge worlds............ then zip nada zilch

They don't want to steal the DG thunder. We aren't a big splash release like they are.

In other words we get the shaft and death guard get two books (because death guard are already in the chaos marines book too)