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Bolster and Chainsword

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I don't think so. That seems way too complicated for GW article standarts. I was shocked they calculated 13 mortal wounds by doing 80 / 6
And since they did 80 / 6 that means 80 dice were rolled. Why do you think it is unreasonable that they got to Assault 4.
Obliterators went from 2 to 4 in the CSM codex. Same type of buff here

hmmm would that make them worth taking at that point? Assault 3 ain't nothing to sneeze at. It that fragility man... and buffed to assault 4 starts to look nice. But still 1w and 5++...

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I don't think so. That seems way too complicated for GW article standarts. I was shocked they calculated 13 mortal wounds by doing 80 / 6
And since they did 80 / 6 that means 80 dice were rolled. Why do you think it is unreasonable that they got to Assault 4.
Obliterators went from 2 to 4 in the CSM codex. Same type of buff here

I mean, if you actually go and work out how many hits a unit of 20 electro-priests expect to get when in range of Cawl, you get 80. That's what they say they're doing -- they're explicit that Cawl is buffing them. It seems like a huge stretch to say that even though the article has exactly the right result for electro-priests as they are now, they must be getting buffed since surely GW didn't do the math right.

0 Ap, No speed, No survivability, no range. Seems utter trash unless they go to 10 pts per model.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
0 Ap, No speed, No survivability, no range. Seems utter trash unless they go to 10 pts per model.

or you know.... transports

Dionysodorus wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I don't think so. That seems way too complicated for GW article standarts. I was shocked they calculated 13 mortal wounds by doing 80 / 6
And since they did 80 / 6 that means 80 dice were rolled. Why do you think it is unreasonable that they got to Assault 4.
Obliterators went from 2 to 4 in the CSM codex. Same type of buff here

I mean, if you actually go and work out how many hits a unit of 20 electro-priests expect to get when in range of Cawl, you get 80. That's what they say they're doing -- they're explicit that Cawl is buffing them. It seems like a huge stretch to say that even though the article has exactly the right result for electro-priests as they are now, they must be getting buffed since surely GW didn't do the math right.

How did they get 13 mortal wounds from 60 hit rolls? 20 dudes * 3 shots = 60 / 6 = 10, not 13.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Dionysodorus wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I don't think so. That seems way too complicated for GW article standarts. I was shocked they calculated 13 mortal wounds by doing 80 / 6
And since they did 80 / 6 that means 80 dice were rolled. Why do you think it is unreasonable that they got to Assault 4.
Obliterators went from 2 to 4 in the CSM codex. Same type of buff here

I mean, if you actually go and work out how many hits a unit of 20 electro-priests expect to get when in range of Cawl, you get 80. That's what they say they're doing -- they're explicit that Cawl is buffing them. It seems like a huge stretch to say that even though the article has exactly the right result for electro-priests as they are now, they must be getting buffed since surely GW didn't do the math right.

How did they get 13 mortal wounds from 60 hit rolls? 20 dudes * 3 shots = 60 / 6 = 10, not 13.

For the third time, they say they're shooting while in range of Cawl's re-roll aura.

gendoikari87 wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
0 Ap, No speed, No survivability, no range. Seems utter trash unless they go to 10 pts per model.

or you know.... transports

GW has stated very recently that AdMech will not get transports.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dionysodorus wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Dionysodorus wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I don't think so. That seems way too complicated for GW article standarts. I was shocked they calculated 13 mortal wounds by doing 80 / 6
And since they did 80 / 6 that means 80 dice were rolled. Why do you think it is unreasonable that they got to Assault 4.
Obliterators went from 2 to 4 in the CSM codex. Same type of buff here

I mean, if you actually go and work out how many hits a unit of 20 electro-priests expect to get when in range of Cawl, you get 80. That's what they say they're doing -- they're explicit that Cawl is buffing them. It seems like a huge stretch to say that even though the article has exactly the right result for electro-priests as they are now, they must be getting buffed since surely GW didn't do the math right.

How did they get 13 mortal wounds from 60 hit rolls? 20 dudes * 3 shots = 60 / 6 = 10, not 13.

For the third time, they say they're shooting while in range of Cawl's re-roll aura.

That means nothing in terms of Mortal wounds. If you mean re-roll every non 6, then that's 18 Mortal wounds((60/6) + ((60-(60/6))/6)). There is no way you get a 13 Mortal wound average from 60 and re-rolls

Unfortunately. Now question is do they mean now or in perpetuity?

If not for the by now mythical FoC book, I'd give at least 2 more years of being transportless.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

That means nothing in terms of Mortal wounds. If you mean re-roll every non 6, then that's 18 Mortal wounds((60/6) + ((60-(60/6))/6)). There is no way you get a 13 Mortal wound average from 60 and re-rolls

What? An electro-priest averages 1 hit per hit roll he gets to make, and he gets 3 shots. Re-rolling a 3+ to hit improves your average number of hits by a factor of 4/3. So 20 priests expect 80 hits (this is what they say in the article -- I don't know why you keep talking about 60). The stratagem does not apply to the hit roll, but to the wound roll. A 6+ to wound is a mortal wound. 80 hits mean 80 wound rolls, or an average of 80/6 mortal wounds.

I'll show math when I get home but bs 3 rerolling all fails they average 80 hits bs 4 is interesting because that's 75 hits. Both on average hit more than they shoot which seems odd

Yeah, after re-rolls it isn't 80. Eh, whatever. Time will tell.

No it's 80 WITH rerolls .... on average at least

20 Corpuscarii shooting Assault 3 weapons is 60 shots. With Cawl nearby, that is 53 hits on average after re-rolls. So with exploding 6's, that is like 24 extra hits. That makes for about 12ish mortal wounds, if my math isn't too jacked up.

The issue is their range, cost, and lack of durability mean this will pretty much never happen. I would much rather have Fulgurites.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
20 Corpuscarii shooting Assault 3 weapons is 60 shots. With Cawl nearby, that is 53 hits on average after re-rolls. So like 8ish mortal wounds.

The issue is their range, cost, and lack of durability mean this will pretty much never happen. I would much rather have Fulgurites.

You're forgetting that they get 3 hits on a hit roll of 6+.

Dionysodorus wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
20 Corpuscarii shooting Assault 3 weapons is 60 shots. With Cawl nearby, that is 53 hits on average after re-rolls. So like 8ish mortal wounds.

The issue is their range, cost, and lack of durability mean this will pretty much never happen. I would much rather have Fulgurites.

You're forgetting that they get 3 hits on a hit roll of 6+.

Yea, I revised my post. Doesn't really change how mediocre-to-terrible they are.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Dionysodorus wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
20 Corpuscarii shooting Assault 3 weapons is 60 shots. With Cawl nearby, that is 53 hits on average after re-rolls. So like 8ish mortal wounds.

The issue is their range, cost, and lack of durability mean this will pretty much never happen. I would much rather have Fulgurites.

You're forgetting that they get 3 hits on a hit roll of 6+.

Yea, I revised my post. Doesn't really change how mediocre-to-terrible they are.

circumstantially. They really need more durability and the -1 to hit if true might just get them there.... probably not though

The math on this works out, but it's pretty convoluted, as corpuscarii get 3 hits on every 6 to hit.

60 shots = 40 hits of which 10 are sixes. This works out to 60 hits. -> (60*2/3) +(60*1/6)*2 = 60

With Cawl's re-roll this works out to (20*2/3) + (20*1/6)*2 = 20 hits.

Total hits is 80, so with the strategem 80*(1/6) = 13 mortal wounds.

*Note the x2 multiplier for multiple hits is cause the first of the three hits is included in the initial roll to hit.

So no, they won't be assault 4.

16 points a model, 12" range, 6" movement, saves are 5++/5+FNP, T3. Every last volume of fire weapon in the game shoots at them efficiently (lasgun, boltgun, heavybolter, etc.). If you are facing a magnus player, he could just wait one turn before he yolo charges within 18" of the corpuscarii blob. If you are facing an opponent who doesn't want to close with you, it is quite likely your opponent will pick what you you can shoot at on the second turn of shooting.

However, the 6+ the wound strategem will be a huge boon for Kastelon robots. Specifically, groups of 4 phosphor bots. If they live to getting protector (double shoot) online, they generate 72 4+ to hit shots at 36" for 440 points. Assuming Cawl (how I run them), that is ~54 hits and ~9 mortal wounds from 6s to wound. This is a huge deal for Kastelons and would be an actual threat to magnus.

Yeah, my bad. My main mistake was that I misread the stratagem.

Guess they'll remain terrible, unless they get a huge pts drop.

Wulfey wrote:
16 points a model, 12" range, 6" movement, saves are 5++/5+FNP, T3. Every last volume of fire weapon in the game shoots at them efficiently (lasgun, boltgun, heavybolter, etc.). If you are facing a magnus player, he could just wait one turn before he yolo charges within 18" of the corpuscarii blob. If you are facing an opponent who doesn't want to close with you, it is quite likely your opponent will pick what you you can shoot at on the second turn of shooting.

However, the 6+ the wound strategem will be a huge boon for Kastelon robots. Specifically, groups of 4 phosphor bots. If they live to getting protector (double shoot) online, they generate 72 4+ to hit shots at 36" for 440 points. Assuming Cawl (how I run them), that is ~54 hits and ~9 mortal wounds from 6s to wound. This is a huge deal for Kastelons and would be an actual threat to magnus.

I am tempted to make a big unit of six just so this Strategem can encompass all my robots at once. Six would damn near kill Magnus outright. The only concern would be if they got locked up in combat, but that is always an issue.

Oh yeah, infiltrators seem great for the stratagem. 26 pts for 5 shots seems much better than 9 for 110. Now that's a damn alpha strike. Appear, target (almost) whatever you want - and erase it.

Yea I don't get why theres so much talk about the terrible priests. Both versions are total trash. No transport makes them useless.

The strat with robots though is very good dependent on how their price per model goes. From the tourney scene, I don't see it changing much if at all. They didn't place high anywhere and are far from top tier at this current time.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Oh yeah, infiltrators seem great for the stratagem. 26 pts for 5 shots seems much better than 9 for 110. Now that's a damn alpha strike. Appear, target (almost) whatever you want - and erase it.

Eh. It could help in a pinch, but if I am spending CP, it is going on Robots. A squad of 5 Infiltrators is only doing about 3 mortal wounds with this strategem.

Let's say the strategems are good and worth spending CP on. Admech is really bad for generating CP with the HQ options we have. 250 point cawl + 140 point dominus is just bad. Even after this book, I predict that I will continue to ally in guard and keep using those sweet sweet 40 point HQ slots.

I'll be hoping for a fallback and shoot strategem

str00dles1 wrote:
Yea I don't get why theres so much talk about the terrible priests. Both versions are total trash. No transport makes them useless.

The strat with robots though is very good dependent on how their price per model goes. From the tourney scene, I don't see it changing much if at all. They didn't place high anywhere and are far from top tier at this current time.

Well, personally, Id rather like at least the enginseer to be usable. Mostly because Ive got two from when they were part of the IG army... and fixing transports is kind of the only reason they exist. A single wound per turn is trash.

 Tyr13 wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:
Yea I don't get why theres so much talk about the terrible priests. Both versions are total trash. No transport makes them useless.

The strat with robots though is very good dependent on how their price per model goes. From the tourney scene, I don't see it changing much if at all. They didn't place high anywhere and are far from top tier at this current time.

Well, personally, Id rather like at least the enginseer to be usable. Mostly because Ive got two from when they were part of the IG army... and fixing transports is kind of the only reason they exist. A single wound per turn is trash.

It is better than the current zero. Could bump it up a tier from the damage table, which is a pretty useful ability (ie at 12, recover and bump to 13, meaning you are shooting at 3+ again).

I'd be surprised if Lucius, home of the Warp Runners, doesn't get a teleport stratagem. If you've got power and resources to do it to a Titan Legion you can do it do a Knight or some Electropriests - plus again it'd be a straight port of the Raven Guard Stratagem.

A no penalty for moving and shooting would also be nice, and could fit Graia's almost nomadic orbitals, and is again a trait that other armies get. Combined with a 3CP all Skitarii scout it'd be closer to the old fast infantry model of Skitarii.

Ryza getting a plasma boost seems fairly obvious, either as a stratagem or a trait.