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Ok so this isn't to troll, it's not a top level tactic or anything like that. This isn't to attack anyone, and I know where the rule was in the 7th book to disallow this. Its merely a discussion on GWs ability to write rules. Let's agree to disagree on vertical movement. New scenario, a rhino is parked flushed with a wall. It's touching with no gap between it and a friendly space marine uses the terrain for all it's needed vertical movement and then moves horizontally on to the rhino. Is there anything anyone can find in the book or any faq to disallow this?

You're still technically going through a unit. the only way to go over another unit/model is to cross some piece of terrain going over it. Even a flyer can't stop it's move on top of other models. So in every context that doesn't involve scenery being above a model. Just no. The answer is no to moving onto a model/base of a model.

But there is a point at which the models base is high enough that it doesn't clip through the model and just moves into the tank. An even better hypothetical than the one I pointed out would be a piece of terrain that is exactly as tall as the tank with the infantryman already up on it. He could just walk from surface to surface with it parked flush to it.

Actually if a flying unit can't even land on/slide it's base under a tank, it would point towards the base extending forever into the sky unless a conflicting terrain piece was over it. For example, a bridge going over a tank would allow you to walk over it, but if you cross on to the model itself you're still going "through" the unit.

Edit: I should also probably point out that it's fun to theorize this stuff, but a real tournament would never allow a lot of the weird rules-lawyerish things people ask in this forum.

Kremling wrote:

 Overheal wrote:
Up IS a direction but how can you end your movement phase in thin air?

You'd have to use WMS which requires agreement between you and your opponent.

I'd say UP is not a direction in 40k. Directions are nowhere defined by the game. But the game works on the chosen battlefield, the battlefield is defined by your chosen tabletop, which is a flat surface. All rules apply only to this surface you are playing on.

That means
you can move your models in any direction on the tabletop.
you can not move your models off the board.
you can not place your units off the board.
you can not move your models into the ground.
you can not move your models into the air.

Someone who thinks he can move his models up into the air, is simply trying extending the battlefield, which is not possible, it is flat, 2D, AIR and "below the table" are not part of the game. Terrain is just an exception which is ruled by the vertical movement, and Line of sight blocking rule to somehow make it work.



If someone would argue to me he can move his models to some place which is not part of the game, i would hang up a blanket from the ceiling in front of my deployment zone in his shooting phase and tell him his LOS is blocked. In my next movement phase i would then let my Hormagaunts start climbing the blanket according the vertical movement rule.
Also, this thread is stupid.

Oh im fully on board with that.

The only model I could even dream of suspending over the table is a T'au Manta. Only justifiable situation


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hades wrote:
But there is a point at which the models base is high enough that it doesn't clip through the model and just moves into the tank. An even better hypothetical than the one I pointed out would be a piece of terrain that is exactly as tall as the tank with the infantryman already up on it. He could just walk from surface to surface with it parked flush to it.

But if you stop lifting your model (I suggest that WMS should only be used to keep your model from 'wobbling' ie. no lifting force just preventing a model from falling over) then the marine is not going to rest on the table, he is going to rest on another model.

So in your example I could have a really tall cliff/desert rock piece and start my pathfinders on it, and park a stormsurge right next to it. It would be ridiculous to begin with, but this interpretation wouldn't stop them from walking on board the storumsurge shoulders for vantage point and to be little rocket-racoons on a big groot with cluster missiles.

 Overheal wrote:

Kremling wrote:

 Overheal wrote:
Up IS a direction but how can you end your movement phase in thin air?

You'd have to use WMS which requires agreement between you and your opponent.

I'd say UP is not a direction in 40k. Directions are nowhere defined by the game. But the game works on the chosen battlefield, the battlefield is defined by your chosen tabletop, which is a flat surface. All rules apply only to this surface you are playing on.

That means
you can move your models in any direction on the tabletop.
you can not move your models off the board.
you can not place your units off the board.
you can not move your models into the ground.
you can not move your models into the air.

Someone who thinks he can move his models up into the air, is simply trying extending the battlefield, which is not possible, it is flat, 2D, AIR and "below the table" are not part of the game. Terrain is just an exception which is ruled by the vertical movement, and Line of sight blocking rule to somehow make it work.



If someone would argue to me he can move his models to some place which is not part of the game, i would hang up a blanket from the ceiling in front of my deployment zone in his shooting phase and tell him his LOS is blocked. In my next movement phase i would then let my Hormagaunts start climbing the blanket according the vertical movement rule.
Also, this thread is stupid.

Oh im fully on board with that.

The only model I could even dream of suspending over the table is a T'au Manta. Only justifiable situation

I knew someone would mention deep strike rules, mantas in orbit, stupid slaughterhouse dimensions, lictors in their invisible bushes etc.

You still agree with your opponent before the game on a chosen battlefield, declaring terrain. As long as you dont declare air as part of the battlefield it is not there. We are still playing tabletop games, not 3D holographic gak miniature games(would be awesome though..)


/edit: the language filter is really funny

Kremling,
You are entering the territory of 'Fundamentals,' things we must accept are true of ALL games in order to understand how ANY game system functions. Things like 'You need permission to carry out an action' are Fundamentals, we simply assume this is true of Warhammer as it is true of all other gaming systems. Even if we disagree what those Fundamentals might be, it is a debate site and we disagree on the meaning of the word A if allowed, all of us have to accept that Fundamentals exist or we end up in situations where I can slaughter puppies for re-rolls simply because the Rules haven't forbidden me from doing so. As someone who adores the concept of Fundamentals, any argument which throws out the entire system and begins to focus on the building blocks of Games themselves will catch my attention!

Consider me convinced:
Fundamentally, table-top games require an 'area of play' in order to function... the Table-Top.
We literally use that very fact in order to lump these games together when we categorize them.

Without the Authors informing us that the area of play has been expanded past the fundamental limit of "Table-top," we can safely assume the table top is the limits of play. While "Any Direction" does still include the direction Up, because the Author did not define Direction to state otherwise, it does not actually matter. We are fundamentally required to keep our playing pieces within the playing area, so we are unable to end a Move which would leave the Model outside of play. One can not move the Model upwards for the same reason one can not move a model backwards off your own edge of the table... it is out-of-play with such a Movement.

There are still a few odds and ends, but they would be so very specific I doubt we would ever encounter a situation where it mattered:
Example, I have a flyer with permission to leave play, in theory I could take it straight upwards in order to do so... but such a Model is likely going to be able to find a table edge with the Foot and a half movement rate it has without needing to exploit up.