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I should add: 'hate' is indeed a too strong word when you are talking about plastic miniature soldiers*.

However, chaos is still my least favorite faction. I'd rather play Tau and I give them all kinds (non-serious) flak too.

*They're not toys, dang it! They're miniatures, I say!

 Weazel wrote:
Wulfen I don't especially like and yeah Murderfang is a bit too much for me, but outside of them what "new" have they really received recently anyway?

They have, you know, anti-grav sleigh pulled by wolves.
They used to not even bring actual wolves with them, let alone ride those into battle, let alone use them to pull stupid antigrav sleigh. They used to have accomplishments that were basically the equivalents of those of other chapters, now it feels like they are portrayed as just better.

I understand why many people put orks among the most hated factions saying that they're not grim dark.

Orks are by far my favorite army but I can't stand their comic portraying too. My orks are not hilarious or funny, they're big, dirty and scary

It's also interesting to notice that a lot of imperium players can't stand space wolves. I can't stand the majority of the imperium stuff, but I do love space wolves

IMHO the latin SM connections and names are way dumber and far from being "grim dark" that comic orks. And that is said by someone that was born in Rome.

Huh?

Space Wolves are alright in general. However, they *could* do without naming so many things "Wolf [something]", though. It's just silly that everything has wolves on top of wolves. Knock it off.

I'd still play the Wolves if I had infinite time and money. They're space vikings. Instant cool.

Orks are okay too. They're grimdark enough when you stop to think about them. And if you still think they are too funny for the setting? Well, I find a lot of imperium's stuff to be quite funny. I mean, this whole union of factions is a giant, walking, talking political satire. And like I said, chaos are just R-rated saturday morning cartoon villains. If you don't find 40k funny... man, I don't even know what to say.

I wouldn't play Orks even if I had infinite time and money, though. When it comes to 40k, I'm more interested of the scifi-stuff and/or "knights in space"-stuff than that whole Mad Max-look.

I don't hate any of the factions, I do have some that I don't like, but that's just personal preference and none that I would say don't belong in the game, except maybe the Grey Knights, as their background does not befit a full faction. I started in 5th, so I may have missed when Space Wolves were not so damned OTT, but they are now. They were the worst victims of GW's infatuation with the least subtle of naming conventions.....and that's just from a canine perspective without even getting to Murderfang. The second one that does nothing for me is Nurgle, there is nothing about the Nurgle aesthetic that holds any appeal to me, although they make for great reading in the books.

 Blackie wrote:
IMHO the latin SM connections and names are way dumber and far from being "grim dark" that comic orks. And that is said by someone that was born in Rome.

That is because you didn't go through the English education system. Believe me there is nothing more grim and dark than double Latin in a dark, freezing room delivered by a sadist with three feet of rattan cane swishing down on your fingers every time you forget what a gerund is.

As for my least favourite faction, it is the Adeptus Custodes for me. They look like something out of Flash Gordon, not the good one either, the eighties one.

World Eaters: They've never even eaten 1 world!!!

 More Dakka wrote:
World Eaters: They've never even eaten 1 world!!!

Yeah.. who do they think they are? 'Nids?

... Are Tyranids the totem animals of World Eaters?

RedCommander wrote:
I should add: 'hate' is indeed a too strong word when you are talking about plastic miniature soldiers*.

However, chaos is still my least favorite faction. I'd rather play Tau and I give them all kinds (non-serious) flak too.

*They're not toys, dang it! They're miniatures, I say!

Oh I've had a period of time where I couldn't get any games from people at my flgs because Tau were soft banned. Despite playing a fluffy list in 7th.

My least favourite. Eldar Lore is so stupid the model range is okay. I also dislike the vast majority of space marine lore/stuff. Primarch models I haven't been a fan of. Primaris can go away too. Deathwatch, blood ravens, and Imperial fists are good though. Actually I think I hate a good chunk of the fanbase more than anything to do with the lore. So cringy.

Chaos whiners. Chaos in general is bad mmmkay.

I don't so much hate a faction, as I do certain attitudes about a faction.

"Tau are the best at shooting and can annihilate everyone" whether that be a gloat or a complaint is what I hate.

But in all honesty, I loathe Squats because I think their entire concept is dumb.

I dislike Sisters of Battle because they didn't really do anything significant to stand out other than 'be nuns'. A fine opportunity to combine some of what the Guard has, with a little bit of what Astartes have... squandered.

 More Dakka wrote:
World Eaters: They've never even eaten 1 world!!!

So much this.

There's at least one thing about every faction I don't like or find annoying. I guess I'm just a hater.

Particular mention goes to Space Wolves: I recently made a list for a friend using the wolves and the lack of imagination that has gone into naming their units is staggering. Very stupid. The fluff is godawful too.
I wish they had more of a viking theme and less of a wolf theme, honestly.

Chaos have fugly models and act like Saturday morning cartoon villains. They're not imposing at all.

Tyranid guns and cannons look janky.

Primaris marines are my least favourite though.

Hate is too strong, but dislike or sheer apathy for these forces would be where I stand.


1. Dark Eldar - Dislike there fluff, the motives and the aesthetic. Cruelty, torture, slavery and a affinity for whips sounds a bit Slaanesh to me. I'm all for space pirates/raiders in 40k but not these guys who took a left turn out of hellraiser. (Except Drazhar he's cool)
2. Blood Angels - I just find a bunch of vampire space marines to be too heretical for my liking, plus I don't like the red colour scheme and find the special characters to be horrible.
3. Necrons - They look so boring, as the 40k undead equivalent they have a lot to do to be as interesting as there fantasy counter parts.

Special mention: Daemons only army - mixed in with cultists and the traitor legions fantastic, used as part of a daemon world army with barbarian humans, beastmen and everything else pure joy. As there own force of just them materialising from nothing or a shoe horned in artefact I just find the idea to be kind of dull. (Given a choice to dump an army from 40k, Daemon only armies would be my number one pick.)

 Weazel wrote:
What specifically is it about "current" SW that tick people off? To me they've always been pretty much the same (since 2nd edition). Wulfen I don't especially like and yeah Murderfang is a bit too much for me, but outside of them what "new" have they really received recently anyway? The fluff is pretty much what it has always been, they drink mead and beat the crap out of eachother for sport, what the heck is there not to love? They've been the same since the beginning when 40k was actually very much a game based on humor so why are they suddenly viewed in such a "serious" light?

Now I'm not trying to make people love them, I just want to understand why they rank so highly on people's hate lists...

But I think it's great that there are many different factions that are able to incite various emotions in people.

The wolf motif has been taken way too far. When you have Canis Wolfborne of the Wolfguard of Harold Deathwolf of the Space Wolves chapter, raised among the feral Wolves of Fenris, riding atop his Thunderwolf with his Wolf Tooth Necklace and Wolf Amulet, Wielding Wolfclaws for the Wolftime, it's a sure sign the theme has been beaten to death, they've gone beyond the Viking theme and basically gone full-blown Furry.

They come off as arrogant in a very un-viking way, almost hipster like, *especially* in Prospero Burns and A Thousand Sons. They try to be too many, contradictory, often hypocritical things. "We don't use Psykers, they're bad, we have Rune Priests, they use the native power of Fenris, you've probably never heard of it..."

Their fluff between the 5E book and 30k stuff has just been really bad. They try to be "dark" and "intentionally misunderstood" executioners in Prospero Burns who are simultaneously amazing spymasters with an excellente intelligence network while being intelligent and highly disciplined warriors while trying to portray an image of undisciplined brutality to their own allies for god knows what reason but being highly superstitious fighting for an Emperor who is trying to stamp out exactly such practices, making extensive use of psychic support despite condemning it elsewhere. They try to be basically "Space Berzerkers" in other fluff where basically they win through being more ferocious than their opponents with none of the subtlety/cunning mentioned in the HH books. They try to be "the good guys" in other fluff, caring about the average citizen, etc. They try to be the "pranksters" in some fluff like crashing thunderhawks for pranks and whatnot. In others they come off as half-werewolf psychopaths, and then they sprinkle in actual Werewolves to boot, etc.

They try to be too many things at once that contradict each other, and they try too hard in general. Unlike Orks, the comedic and serious elements clash harshly, as to the elements within each end of the spectrum.

The way they are written all too often also reads like bad internet fanfiction. Firing artillery by *smell*? Then rushing forward to watch the explosions (thus exposing an artillery platform to direct enemy fire...exactly what it was designed *not* to do, or just being impossible given that the often the point of artillery is to fire at things that it's not possible to get at) because it's amusing? That's really the actions of genetically engineered disciplined and combat experienced super soldiers?

You know, I used to have hell with Tau.

But right now, I have a list that's pretty much 'A bunch of Primaris and a few tanks and a flyer', and I'm... not losing to them. Or Eldar.

But against Marines or Guard, I'm toast.

 Vaktathi wrote:

The way they are written all too often also reads like bad internet fanfiction. Firing artillery by *smell*? Then rushing forward to watch the explosions (thus exposing an artillery platform to direct enemy fire...exactly what it was designed *not* to do, or just being impossible given that the often the point of artillery is to fire at things that it's not possible to get at) because it's amusing? That's really the actions of genetically engineered disciplined and combat experienced super soldiers?

I think this especially exemplifies the issue with SWs. The Vikings might have been fearsome warriors, but there's a good reason why they never built an Empire.

If they need to exist at all, I think Space Wolves really should be just a small part in a larger picture. If you want a section of warriors who'll joyfully run headlong into battle, then it makes at least some degree
of sense.

The issue comes when you try to make those same warriors fill *every* role in an army. Why? What's the point? What purpose does it serve to have these people manning your artillery or long-range guns? If they're trained for combat, why the hell would you ever train them to fly aircraft?

I am choosing to not focus on factions but playstyles (that you do indeed see mostly with certain factions). I make this choice because most factions do have variety in 40k in army builds.

#1 Straight gunline armies that never move from their board edge. I don't mind shooting, but there is ZERO skill in sitting on your board edge, picking targets (please do not play the "target choice is really important!" I agree, but it is dead simple 98% of the time. I have a lascannon, gee do I shoot the giant tank or the snipers...) Now, a gun support of assault units? Great concept that actualy uses skill and strategy.

#2 Herohammer and epic scale models (Knights, baneblades etc are really just another form of mega hero models): I put them together because as said many times, either I have the tools to kill them, and do so by turn 2, or I don't and lose. I love tactics etc, but they rarely can overcome I need a 6 to wound and you have a 3+ invuln. Besides, I HATE throwing half my 2k army at one model a turn...Rarely do I ever have a close game or even see a battle report of one involving girlyman, knight built lists etc. I am completely biased of course as we all are. But I am tired of destroying an opponents entire army, and being left with mine beating on his 3 HQ's for 2 turns. (Again, girlyman being the worst culprit) I build a mixed force without the hoard of pointless guys to make him sit in the corner the whole game, and anytime you shoot girly man to death, your opponent SCREWED up, as he should always get to CC and never be closest model to anything dangerous to him. Yes, I said it. if you kill him with shooting, 90% of the time you're playing a bad player.

That all said...I think the Tau battlesuits look really lame. I don't mind the anime fluff excuse to use them etc...but they should have got some anime guy to design cool stuff instead of their boxlike legos.

 Gamgee wrote:

Chaos whiners. Chaos in general is bad mmmkay.

These people sound like enlightened individuals. [/irony)

edwardmyst wrote:
#1 Straight gunline armies that never move from their board edge. I don't mind shooting, but there is ZERO skill in sitting on your board edge, picking targets

Actually, there's a lot of skill in choosing where to sit the various units of your gunline, what your gunline's formation should be, and how your gunline reacts the enemy's movements.

Certainly it takes no less skill than "HURR I MOVE EVERYTHING FORWARD AND PILE IN GIT SUUUUUM!".

Gameplay-wise, I think the saltiest I have ever felt was against 5th ed. Grey Knights.

My buddy had been playing them from the dawn of 5th as Daemonhunters, so he wasn't jumping on a bandwagon or anything, and I was definitely happy for him that his army got a much-needed update. For the most part I even agreed with a lot of the changes because they actually made a very small, very elite force viable and survivable, which was pretty cool.

However, around the same time I had started playing Tyranids and...
There are almost no words to describe how flat-out unfair those match-ups felt.

I try as much as possible to look at game losses as a personal problem and see where I can improve. There's nothing to be gained if you start from the perspective that it's the -game's- fault you lost or that it was a balance issue. Looking at things like that sets you up for failure because you won't learn anything or grow that way.

But man...
His shooting was flat-out better in terms of range, power, volume and mobility. No problem: I can move just as well as him and get into combat.
Oh, wait, all of his guys have force weapons, so they one-shot any multi-wound models. Okay, well, I can still dish out some damage before that- oh, no, I can't; halberds grant I6, so any models with those hit as fast or faster than any of my guys...and one hit is all they need.

So my small, weak models couldn't stand up to the volume of long-range fire and my bigger, tougher models effectively couldn't do anything.
Those games became really hard to enjoy.




Anyway as far as fluff or aesthetics goes, I wouldn't say I hate them but Orks pretty rarely do anything for me.

Tyranids.

lore wise def Tyranids

Gamplay: guard games are always just a gunline /WWI slog

 Purifier wrote:
Tyranids, purely aesthetic reasons. Why are they holding guns, when they would look better just having weapons integrated into their bodies? Tyranids should be a super-version of the starship troopers bugs. Not some clown-version.

Tyranid weapons ARE integrated into their bodies...am i missing something here?

@tremulant

Ummmm...

In case it actually is inseparable part of its body, it still looks like it carrya gun, like human does.

Snowflake marines

I used to really enjoy the Wolves when they were space vikings and then they became hyper parodies of themselves - simply awful in all respects.

Same wtih Dark Angels - The old Deathwing fluff was great and then they became super Emo marines gah.

Blood Angels are no better.

Shame really - they were all interesting before GW fethed them up.

 Hawky wrote:
@tremulant

Ummmm...

Spoiler:

In case it actually is inseparable part of its body, it still looks like it carrya gun, like human does.

The tyranid guns are mostly supposed to be separate creatures to the host. Hence most of the guns having eyes on them.
However the weapon and the host are grown together, and have fused around each other.

The hosts fingers have grown into the weapon, connecting their circulatory systems.
Their hands have splayed out and twisted around and through the weapon.
Tubes have grown from the weapon into the hosts flesh.

There's no way a tyranid could drop its weapon and pick up another. You can see this just be looking at the models.
Check out this venom cannon. You can still see something resembling hands wrapped around it. Vestigial fingers integrating with the weapon symbiote. But it's pretty hard to say the host is 'holding' the weapon. They are inseparable.


Makes sense from a modularity point of view. It would be easier to maintain a single 'template' for gaunts, and one for each of the compatible weapon creatures, than to have a separate template for each and every sub-species of gaunt.

 Weazel wrote:
Why so much SW hate? I mean some of the wolfiness is probably a bit OTT but they're just basically Space Vikings and Vikings are fething badass. At least they're more interesting than any of the Adeptus Blandtartes.

My answer would be Eldar. I just hate the scrawny space-elves and their psychic shenanigans. Can't seem to crack them whatever the edition number might be.

The fact that they are loosely based upon vikings actually makes me like vikings a bit less; thinking about vikings as space wolves and being basically a giant wolf meme.

 heckler wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Why so much SW hate? I mean some of the wolfiness is probably a bit OTT but they're just basically Space Vikings and Vikings are fething badass. At least they're more interesting than any of the Adeptus Blandtartes.

My answer would be Eldar. I just hate the scrawny space-elves and their psychic shenanigans. Can't seem to crack them whatever the edition number might be.

The fact that they are loosely based upon vikings actually makes me like vikings a bit less; thinking about vikings as space wolves and being basically a giant wolf meme.

The thing is, space Vikings would actually be awesome, but space wolves aren't space Vikings. They're wolf obsessed vaguely Vikings. Actual space Vikings would have a lot more going for them, and if they were clever, could use the different aspects to represent different parts of the army.

Space marines, first because they have no downside- no drawbacks for their bonuses or actions. It feels like they are too good at all things and often great at others. Second because each chapter/legion has such adamant fanboys that that particular color is so much better than the others. It's palette swaps with maybe one or two tiny changes, chill. Even as a furry I'm not interested in SW, they do feel a bit silly.

I get why people dislike T'au playstyle, I'm getting a little bored of not having a psychic or fighting phase. I do like that T'au have to make meaningful choices, like move or get rerolls, where to deploy how many markerlights, what support systems to use where today, each of these things has tradeoffs in game rather than auras of reroll everything. Still, it rarely feels like we are getting enough out of the trade offs vs SM but when I fight AdMech or Nids things seem nicely matched.

What I don't totally get is why people think battlesuits are out of place when wraithknights and imperial knights are in. Alright battlesuits tend to be slim-boxy while wraith is sleek-rounded and imperials are clunky-bubbly, seems like a middle ground to me. But art is subjective so whatever.

 Grimgold wrote:

As for me space wolves is an easy pick, as someone said pretentious tryhards. Blood angels would probably also make that list, linkin park blasting space vampires, whose entire gimmick is avoiding extinction by the smallest margins so they can go be sad some more. The fact that they are planning on retconning the whole horus heresy for saguinus makes me want to punch puppies. As for unfun to play against imperial knights are decidedly meh, either you have the tools to take them down and you win, or you don't and you lose.

Wait...wut? They're doing what stupid thing for SM now?

For me it's Space Marines. Just Space Marines in their entirety. I hate them all.

They're cheap, cheesy, and GW's posterboys and all time favorite faction.

I'm sick of reading about them.
I'm sick of playing against them.
I'm sick of seeing them.
I'm sick of taking them into account when I theoryhammer.
I'm sick of mathing them out.
I'm sick of their immunity to half the rules in the game.
I'm sick of seeing them get more and more toys while other armies don't even get codex updates.
I'm sick of seeing their sub-factions get their own codicies while other factions that had codicies get pushed into White Dwarf (say hi, Sisters of Battle!)

I'm just sick of everything space marine...except for painting and playing AS them (since I've never done either before)

Just...GW needs to take one edition and let SM sit there and collect dust while they push everything else as hard as they can. Just let the Space Marines be a foot note for a while while other factions get to do stuff.