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Loyalist Space Marines.

Far too overplayed which makes 'em so boring to play against, far too many resources are put into them by GW, far too focus from Black Library, far too many off-shoot codexes. Hell, we literally have a spin-off game ABOUT SPACE MARINES FIGHTING SPACE MARINES.

Their lore comes down to some variation of "and then the Space Marines arrived in time for the Imperial Guard/Sisters of Battle to drop to their knees in awe, and so did the Space Marines totally destroy [Chaos/Xenos race] and it was sick, and epic and metal yo. Company Commander Latinus earned an honour for this overwhelming victory and vowed to pursue [Chaos/Xenos race] until they were finally defeated!" Warhammer 40,000 isn't so grimdark when every other story involves Space Marines being epic and annihilating everything. For all people like to cry Chaos wins too often it sure doesn't feel like the Imperium's actually losing anything.

Ugh.

All the sub-factions of marines and chaos space marines - but not because I don't like the models/fluff/etc. I hate the fact that they take up the release slot as if they were a completely different army line. I'd be happy if space wolves, blood angels, and dark angels were just in the space marine codex similar to say raven guard.

Play against..Necrons...overall. TYRANIDS..RUINED BAAL...well BAAL was pretty lifeless BUT STILL DANTE IS TO OLD FOR THIS NONSENSE

I don't hate any faction much anymore.

But I still have a dislike of Tau because of Intercepting Riptides. It takes a while to get over 400-800 points getting evaporated before they do anything each game.

Tau, purely because of my experience playing against them.

You can't out-shoot them, depending on the list you can't deep-strike around them, and if you try to charge them with what remains after they've been shot at for the duration of their travel, For the Greater Good means they get taken apart.

My most hated faction is Forgeworld (I know it is no a real faction). Seriously why does every one of their vehicles have like 4 special rules. " This land raider has a thud-gun for a main weapon. Cool. Wait it also can still carry three models as passengers? Wait it also reduces the effectiveness of lance/melta for some reason? Wait it also subtracts 1 from the damage chart?" That is how I feel about much of Forgeworld. They always seem to tack on all these crazy rules many of which don't seem like they are play tested very well (worse than GW), any many of which don't seem necessary. And the points are either way to expensive, or way to cheap. I have never played a Forgeworld unit that I thought was balanced in any version of 40k, either one way or the other. I know a lot of people love Forgeworld, but that is just my two cents.

Additionally, I have never told anyone that I would not play them because they wanted to use a Forgeworld unit, I just don't really like them.

 xeen wrote:
My most hated faction is Forgeworld (I know it is no a real faction). Seriously why does every one of their vehicles have like 4 special rules. " This land raider has a thud-gun for a main weapon. Cool. Wait it also can still carry three models as passengers? Wait it also reduces the effectiveness of lance/melta for some reason? Wait it also subtracts 1 from the damage chart?" That is how I feel about much of Forgeworld. They always seem to tack on all these crazy rules many of which don't seem like they are play tested very well (worse than GW), any many of which don't seem necessary. And the points are either way to expensive, or way to cheap. I have never played a Forgeworld unit that I thought was balanced in any version of 40k, either one way or the other. I know a lot of people love Forgeworld, but that is just my two cents.

Additionally, I have never told anyone that I would not play them because they wanted to use a Forgeworld unit, I just don't really like them.

I think you're having cognitive bias here. Just as an example:

There are 35 Astra Militarum Vehicle entries in the FW website. Only 6 or 7 have special rules that aren't taken from GW models.

A lot of what FW does is just variant models, like (e.g.) Hazard Environment Cadians or Ryza-pattern Vanquisher turret. In fact, lately, I feel like they've been struggling to keep themselves separate from GW in some ways, fabricating special rules for various units (e.g. the Tank Hunter rule for the Valdor Tank Hunter, which is the same thing as a vanquisher cannon does but is on the tank rather than the gun) just to try to draw a distinction.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 xeen wrote:
My most hated faction is Forgeworld (I know it is no a real faction). Seriously why does every one of their vehicles have like 4 special rules. " This land raider has a thud-gun for a main weapon. Cool. Wait it also can still carry three models as passengers? Wait it also reduces the effectiveness of lance/melta for some reason? Wait it also subtracts 1 from the damage chart?" That is how I feel about much of Forgeworld. They always seem to tack on all these crazy rules many of which don't seem like they are play tested very well (worse than GW), any many of which don't seem necessary. And the points are either way to expensive, or way to cheap. I have never played a Forgeworld unit that I thought was balanced in any version of 40k, either one way or the other. I know a lot of people love Forgeworld, but that is just my two cents.

Additionally, I have never told anyone that I would not play them because they wanted to use a Forgeworld unit, I just don't really like them.

I think you're having cognitive bias here. Just as an example:

There are 35 Astra Militarum Vehicle entries in the FW website. Only 6 or 7 have special rules that aren't taken from GW models.

A lot of what FW does is just variant models, like (e.g.) Hazard Environment Cadians or Ryza-pattern Vanquisher turret. In fact, lately, I feel like they've been struggling to keep themselves separate from GW in some ways, fabricating special rules for various units (e.g. the Tank Hunter rule for the Valdor Tank Hunter, which is the same thing as a vanquisher cannon does but is on the tank rather than the gun) just to try to draw a distinction.

Fair enough. Maybe it was just the people I was playing. But it left a bad taste in my mouth for forge world

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 xeen wrote:
My most hated faction is Forgeworld (I know it is no a real faction). Seriously why does every one of their vehicles have like 4 special rules. " This land raider has a thud-gun for a main weapon. Cool. Wait it also can still carry three models as passengers? Wait it also reduces the effectiveness of lance/melta for some reason? Wait it also subtracts 1 from the damage chart?" That is how I feel about much of Forgeworld. They always seem to tack on all these crazy rules many of which don't seem like they are play tested very well (worse than GW), any many of which don't seem necessary. And the points are either way to expensive, or way to cheap. I have never played a Forgeworld unit that I thought was balanced in any version of 40k, either one way or the other. I know a lot of people love Forgeworld, but that is just my two cents.

Additionally, I have never told anyone that I would not play them because they wanted to use a Forgeworld unit, I just don't really like them.

I think you're having cognitive bias here. Just as an example:

There are 35 Astra Militarum Vehicle entries in the FW website. Only 6 or 7 have special rules that aren't taken from GW models.

I would argue you're too quick to jump onto rational wiki for a response.

How many of those 35 AM vehicles do you see regularly? If you see any, they're usually one of the 6 or 7. SM get a bunch of FW special vehicles but you'll pretty much only ever see flareshield spartans.

Admitted Chaos Whiner here.

I have never liked the Tau. Fluff and the rules. Maybe it's because they don't have a fantasy equivalent? I also, and I realize that 'hate' is a strong word to use in a conversation about toy soldiers, absolutely hate the Primaris Marines. I was half way ready to start a homebrew chapter of space marines, mostly because I am so jealous of the tactical marine box (I play chaos). Well now that primaris marines are on the scene, I just can't get enthusiastic about the project.

 Lotus Corgi wrote:
Admitted Chaos Whiner here.

I have never liked the Tau. Fluff and the rules. Maybe it's because they don't have a fantasy equivalent? I also, and I realize that 'hate' is a strong word to use in a conversation about toy soldiers, absolutely hate the Primaris Marines. I was half way ready to start a homebrew chapter of space marines, mostly because I am so jealous of the tactical marine box (I play chaos). Well now that primaris marines are on the scene, I just can't get enthusiastic about the project.

But if you play Chaos, could you not just pick up some of the super-cheap heresy-marine plastic kits that are the same quality as the current tactical kit, come with tons of options, and allow you to field a chaos army that looks like an army rather than a bunch of cartoon looneys?

A little bit of weathering and maybe a mutation or two and you'd have a very slick looking chaos marine army.

 MarsNZ wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 xeen wrote:
My most hated faction is Forgeworld (I know it is no a real faction). Seriously why does every one of their vehicles have like 4 special rules. " This land raider has a thud-gun for a main weapon. Cool. Wait it also can still carry three models as passengers? Wait it also reduces the effectiveness of lance/melta for some reason? Wait it also subtracts 1 from the damage chart?" That is how I feel about much of Forgeworld. They always seem to tack on all these crazy rules many of which don't seem like they are play tested very well (worse than GW), any many of which don't seem necessary. And the points are either way to expensive, or way to cheap. I have never played a Forgeworld unit that I thought was balanced in any version of 40k, either one way or the other. I know a lot of people love Forgeworld, but that is just my two cents.

Additionally, I have never told anyone that I would not play them because they wanted to use a Forgeworld unit, I just don't really like them.

I think you're having cognitive bias here. Just as an example:

There are 35 Astra Militarum Vehicle entries in the FW website. Only 6 or 7 have special rules that aren't taken from GW models.

I would argue you're too quick to jump onto rational wiki for a response.

How many of those 35 AM vehicles do you see regularly? If you see any, they're usually one of the 6 or 7. SM get a bunch of FW special vehicles but you'll pretty much only ever see flareshield spartans.

Isn't that a player issue and not a FW issue though? I personally own damn near 1 of everything at least. Why ban everything if only like 1 thing is a problem? Should we ban Codex Space Marines because of Guilliman?

Blood Angels,
Mostly because there players always yust yust whine about beign worse thenn the regular marines,
but still fume whenn you suggest they maybe should yust be rolled into the space marine codex.

They are not that different at all...

Amoras wrote:
Blood Angels,
Mostly because there players always yust yust whine about beign worse thenn the regular marines,
but still fume whenn you suggest they maybe should yust be rolled into the space marine codex.

They are not that different at all...

At this point, they should 100% be rolled in.

Amoras wrote:
Blood Angels,
Mostly because there players always yust yust whine about beign worse thenn the regular marines,

That's mostly Martel.

This has been said before but hate is a strong word. But having said that, there are lots of factions in 40k that bug me.

All the non standard marines. The wolves, the angels (both of them), the grey knights...but not the Death Watch. They're actually kind of cool. But the others just annoy me, for reasons others pointed out.

The sisters also annoy me. There's potential there but they're being presented all wrong imo.

Orks...I'm in two frames of mind. On the one hand, they're terrifyingly alien and utterly, remorselessly evil by human standards. On the other hand, they're max mad lunatics wearing scrap metal. That's silly. But it's enjoyably silly.

Chaos...not a fan of them in 40k. The demons especially. In a fantasy setting like AoS then yes, absolutely! They're perfect bad guys for that! But in 40k...I can't feel it.

I don't really hate anything but I have bugbears for a couple of aspects of 40k.

Fluff-wise.
Grey Knights.
All psykers, happy to kill entire populations but never had a fall to Chaos without any reasoning why that might be or any kind of downside for this supposed resistance.

On the table-top.
Imperial Knights, I don't like the bigger stuff in general but I have a sore spot for IKs they just bore me to tears. My armies can take them, I have two but damned if I'll ever use them.

Model design.
I was never fond of the Tau but that's because they look like they were ripped straight out of Appleseed and Robotech.
Believe it or not I'm not fond of off the sprue Space Wolves either - hunters my ass, they carry too many jangly trinkets for any kind of stalking.

Codex.
You know it's funny that the Tau designs were jacked straight out of anime but for some reason the Space Wolves can't use the better unit names they have in their own fiction.

 Melissia wrote:

Amoras wrote:
Blood Angels,
Mostly because there players always yust yust whine about beign worse thenn the regular marines,

That's mostly Martel.

He's not entirely incorrect. Tournament showings were in which edition? 5th? That's about it. They also do need to be rolled into the main codex as does Dark Angels. They're not different enough like Space Wolves and Grey Knights to warrant their own Codices.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

Amoras wrote:
Blood Angels,
Mostly because there players always yust yust whine about beign worse thenn the regular marines,

That's mostly Martel.

He's not entirely incorrect. Tournament showings were in which edition? 5th? That's about it. They also do need to be rolled into the main codex as does Dark Angels. They're not different enough like Space Wolves and Grey Knights to warrant their own Codices.

It's more about delivery than content.

I agree on DA and BA. Black Templars are more different than vanilla marines than BA or DA and they don't have their own dex.

 crimsondave wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

Amoras wrote:
Blood Angels,
Mostly because there players always yust yust whine about beign worse thenn the regular marines,

That's mostly Martel.

He's not entirely incorrect. Tournament showings were in which edition? 5th? That's about it. They also do need to be rolled into the main codex as does Dark Angels. They're not different enough like Space Wolves and Grey Knights to warrant their own Codices.

It's more about delivery than content.

I agree on DA and BA. Black Templars are more different than vanilla marines than BA or DA and they don't have their own dex.

They did, they just weren't popular enough to hang onto it. Pity, the Templars were pretty awesome.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
They did, they just weren't popular enough to hang onto it. Pity, the Templars were pretty awesome.

If they had a 5th Edition codex like Blood Angels, that may have been a different story. Blood Angels weren't terribly popular until they could take Assault Marines as Troops (i.e. their pre-5th WD and 5th Ed codex). Black Templars just weren't supported much past their 4th Edition codex, so they didn't see as many obvious sales.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Model design.
I was never fond of the Tau but that's because they look like they were ripped straight out of Appleseed and Robotech.

Funny how things are... that's precisely one of the biggest reasons I got into Tau

I wouldn't say that I hate one faction. I think the game is bloated with imperial factions, though. Literally half the factions in the game are Imperium and all the fluff is written from imperial perspective. Every now and then that seems too much, especially since all non-imperial factions are more interesting. Inside the imperial faction it's probably the Space Marines that I'm a little annoyed by, but that's because of GWs releases more than the actual style model or gamewise. Yes, even Ultrasmurfs are kind of cool sometimes, it simply gets boring when they are always the posterboys while at the same time fielding the ridiculously small numer of 1000marines. Seriousely, if it weren't for plot armour SMs would be the most unimportant faction in 40K. I could live with a Codex for every 1st founding SM chapter, if there was one for every Ork Klan, craftworld, Dynastie or Sept as well. 40K simply needs more cool Aliens like Tau.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I wouldn't say that I hate one faction. I think the game is bloated with imperial factions, though. Literally half the factions in the game are Imperium and all the fluff is written from imperial perspective. Every now and then that seems too much, especially since all non-imperial factions are more interesting. Inside the imperial faction it's probably the Space Marines that I'm a little annoyed by, but that's because of GWs releases more than the actual style model or gamewise. Yes, even Ultrasmurfs are kind of cool sometimes, it simply gets boring when they are always the posterboys while at the same time fielding the ridiculously small numer of 1000marines. Seriousely, if it weren't for plot armour SMs would be the most unimportant faction in 40K. I could live with a Codex for every 1st founding SM chapter, if there was one for every Ork Klan, craftworld, Dynastie or Sept as well. 40K simply needs more cool Aliens like Tau.

I agree with your initial point, but not for the reason that you think it. I think it's perfectly fine to lorewise focus on the human side of things. Even if it was 98% focus on it, I'd think that's totally fine. Or the Ork side if that was the main focus. What I do not like is that gameplaywise the Imperium faction is vastly overrepresented, because of the ally rules. I would want each sub-faction to be its own contained army. It makes balancing a much more reasonable thing, and it makes each army feel much more unique than just "oh, you wanted fliers? Why not just pick some from the smurfs?" .. I'm Ad Mech. I'd think my own faction would be able to provide a machine... And then my army is balanced around being able to pick from those armies, but I picked Ad Mech for a reason, I don't want to have to pick units from the space marines. Imagine if Tyranids were told that "yes, your army sorta sucks, but that's because your army synergises really well with the Ork army." Well I didn't pick Orks as my army and I don't want it! I want my hungry bugs! "tough luck."

I definitely think that's a lot of overlap with the imperial factions. Also, who was it who said about the grey knights being so pure they can just withstand the temptations of chaos just...because? Because you're right. That bugs the arse of me.

It's probably a bad idea suggesting rewrites to the fluff but if the grey knights just didn't exist and instead the sisters of silence did their role, I think that would be much more interesting. They can withstand all the temptations of chaos and defend us from it...because they're soulless monsters of a sort who scare the gak out of everyone else. It's all they can do, and it's all they can hope for.

But I said before that chaos in 40k never quite sat right with me anyway so...I don't know.

Chaos + Power Gamer

Yes you know its going to be a lots of fun when you see the Demon Princes getting ready for deployment.

However must say that 7th edition toned the absurd crap down a bit. Have not looked at Chaos in 8th because I don't have to
know that they will have something that will be a joke gone to far.

Must I always felt sorry for Dark Elder players because just about everyone kicked their but.

Honestly, I have to say I really have a hatred for Ad Mech and Imperial Knights because in my view they shouldn't even be an "army". fething stupid. What they should have done is just make the Knights a damn Lord of War choice for SM and AM. Whatever.

 AspinTheBlack wrote:


Must I always felt sorry for Dark Elder players because just about everyone kicked their but.

Huh? In 6th edition my double Beast-star list ravaged almost every army I came up against including screamerstars/dogstars and seer councils. But yes, on the whole DE are an unforgiving faction

Finally got around to making a poll for this thread: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/738303.page#9585012

I voted Ad Mech for both polls because it really is a love hate relationship playing them