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How does everything interact with the reserve rule where you can only reserve 50% of what you have?

Does anything that does not start on the battlefield count as being in reserve?

Trying to figure out Deathwing units and drop pods along with 4 assassins. (Example: The Callidus Polymorph ability....does that count as being in reserve?)

 Da-Rock wrote:
How does everything interact with the reserve rule where you can only reserve 50% of what you have?

Does anything that does not start on the battlefield count as being in reserve?

Trying to figure out Deathwing units and drop pods along with 4 assassins. (Example: The Callidus Polymorph ability....does that count as being in reserve?)

Basically, "anything that does not start on the battlefield counts as being in reserve" is pretty much correct.

Now, afaik I don't think it was ever fully agreed upon whether the RaW means embarked units don't count "on the battlefield" for the purposes of this, with the common sense interpretation being "Inside a transport on the table counts, while inside a transport off the table like in a drop pod doesn't."

Units inside transports do not count towards the total unit count, for the purposes of boots on the ground.

For instance, if you put 3 squads inside a land raider, and put the land raider on the table, that is only 1 drop on the table, for the purposes of calculating 50%.

My issue is:

1 Drop Pod with 3 characters in it
1 Unit of Deathwing Knights Teleporting in
4 Assassins which at a min 2 would reserve


That's 4 in reserve and 2 on the board if my Math is right or is it 7 to 2?

 Da-Rock wrote:
My issue is:

1 Drop Pod with 3 characters in it
1 Unit of Deathwing Knights Teleporting in
4 Assassins which at a min 2 would reserve


That's 4 in reserve and 2 on the board if my Math is right or is it 7 to 2?

That's 7 to 2. Drop Pod, Character 1, Character 2, Character 3, Assassin 1, Assassin 2, Deathwing Knights.

The 50% rule really does hit MSU armies a lot harder than other armies. You're going to have to have some tax units to bulk up your deployment or never play matched play games.

 Marmatag wrote:
Units inside transports do not count towards the total unit count, for the purposes of boots on the ground.

For instance, if you put 3 squads inside a land raider, and put the land raider on the table, that is only 1 drop on the table, for the purposes of calculating 50%.

Regardless of what you think the RAW indicates on this front, I think you'll have a hard time finding a consensus of players (including tournament judges) to agree with you.

I'd easily wager that most people consider units inside a transport that is deployed on the battlefield to also count as on the battlefield for the purposes of the 50% deployment rule.

 yakface wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Units inside transports do not count towards the total unit count, for the purposes of boots on the ground.

For instance, if you put 3 squads inside a land raider, and put the land raider on the table, that is only 1 drop on the table, for the purposes of calculating 50%.

Regardless of what you think the RAW indicates on this front, I think you'll have a hard time finding a consensus of players (including tournament judges) to agree with you.

I'd easily wager that most people consider units inside a transport that is deployed on the battlefield to also count as on the battlefield for the purposes of the 50% deployment rule.

Interesting take. My local scene plays it the way Marmatag described. Reason being: "When you set up a transport, units can start the battle embarked within it instead of being set up separately..."

So, you're not setting up two units. You're setting up one. Embarking a unit is not "setting it up" per the drop rules. Something is happening to the unit "instead" of setting it up. Therefore, the embarked unit is not "set up" at all.

 puma713 wrote:
Interesting take. My local scene plays it the way Marmatag described. Reason being: "When you set up a transport, units can start the battle embarked within it instead of being set up separately..."

So, you're not setting up two units. You're setting up one. Embarking a unit is not "setting it up" per the drop rules. Something is happening to the unit "instead" of setting it up. Therefore, the embarked unit is not "set up" at all.

So you also play that if the units don't disembark from their vehicle (or Fortification) by turn 3 they magically die? Because if you're arguing that units embarked don't count as being on the table for the '50% of your units must be set up on the table rule' then you pretty much have to ride that train of thought to its logical conclusion.

 yakface wrote:

 puma713 wrote:
Interesting take. My local scene plays it the way Marmatag described. Reason being: "When you set up a transport, units can start the battle embarked within it instead of being set up separately..."

So, you're not setting up two units. You're setting up one. Embarking a unit is not "setting it up" per the drop rules. Something is happening to the unit "instead" of setting it up. Therefore, the embarked unit is not "set up" at all.

So you also play that if the units don't disembark from their vehicle (or Fortification) by turn 3 they magically die? Because if you're arguing that units embarked don't count as being on the table for the '50% of your units must be set up on the table rule' then you pretty much have to ride that train of thought to its logical conclusion.

No, we hadn't, but it makes sense that you should, if you're playing that they don't count as "set up".

And you could never get first turn without seizing or with the new rule you would never get +1 to your roll because you didn't finish deploying your army first.

My group has been playing it the other way, a raider with 3 Chrs in it is 4 units on the field. Putting the units in the raider at the same time we see as a bonus of the idea of a transport vehicle, but it's also a "eggs in one basket" thing since you can roast multiple units with one shot if that shot blows the vehicle up.

So in our group it would be 4 drops for calculating 50%. We didn't even think of the 3rd turn deploy or die rule, but that's an interesting take on it that does seem to follow.

 yakface wrote:

 puma713 wrote:
Interesting take. My local scene plays it the way Marmatag described. Reason being: "When you set up a transport, units can start the battle embarked within it instead of being set up separately..."

So, you're not setting up two units. You're setting up one. Embarking a unit is not "setting it up" per the drop rules. Something is happening to the unit "instead" of setting it up. Therefore, the embarked unit is not "set up" at all.

So you also play that if the units don't disembark from their vehicle (or Fortification) by turn 3 they magically die? Because if you're arguing that units embarked don't count as being on the table for the '50% of your units must be set up on the table rule' then you pretty much have to ride that train of thought to its logical conclusion.

For what it's worth, there are tournaments - the ATC among them - using this ruleset. They do not count embarked units as deployed and if you have not disembarked by turn 3, they are destroyed.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Da-Rock wrote:
My issue is:

1 Drop Pod with 3 characters in it
1 Unit of Deathwing Knights Teleporting in
4 Assassins which at a min 2 would reserve


That's 4 in reserve and 2 on the board if my Math is right or is it 7 to 2?

That's 7 to 2. Drop Pod, Character 1, Character 2, Character 3, Assassin 1, Assassin 2, Deathwing Knights.

The 50% rule really does hit MSU armies a lot harder than other armies. You're going to have to have some tax units to bulk up your deployment or never play matched play games.

I think that's the most unreasonable interpretation of these rules I've yet come across. I agree that it's the rules as written though.
The issue with how the rule literally works is that you'd run into massive issues even with any mechanized army. Lets just take Space Marines as an example:

2 HQ characters
3 Tactical Squads of 10 man set up as 2 Combat Squads in a Rhino each
1 HQ in terminator armor set up in reserves
2 Veteran squads of 5 in a Razorback, one of the regular HQ joins each squad
1 Assault Terminator squad set up in reserves

That's 5 units on the table (3 Rhinos and 2 Razorbacks). There are 10 units in transports (6 Tactical Combat squads, 2 Veteran squads, 2 Characters). There are 2 units set up in reserves (Terminators and Terminator HQ).
5:12 is clearly illegal.

I'd suggest counting the drops instead. In my example that'd mean:
5:2 - deployment is legal

I have no issue counting actual units with their transports.

2 units inside a land raider deployed on the table is 3 units on the table.

2 units inside a drop pod in reserves is 3 units in reserves.

Both of those together would still only be 2 deployments.

Why would it be otherwise?

By the way, just to nit pick here, it's not that you can't have more than 50% of your forces in Reserve, the rule actually is you must have at least 50% on the table.

The rule is designed to limit flexibility. A unit in a tank can't pop up anywhere. I would count it as 'on the table' for this purpose.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 puma713 wrote:

 yakface wrote:

 puma713 wrote:
Interesting take. My local scene plays it the way Marmatag described. Reason being: "When you set up a transport, units can start the battle embarked within it instead of being set up separately..."

So, you're not setting up two units. You're setting up one. Embarking a unit is not "setting it up" per the drop rules. Something is happening to the unit "instead" of setting it up. Therefore, the embarked unit is not "set up" at all.

So you also play that if the units don't disembark from their vehicle (or Fortification) by turn 3 they magically die? Because if you're arguing that units embarked don't count as being on the table for the '50% of your units must be set up on the table rule' then you pretty much have to ride that train of thought to its logical conclusion.

For what it's worth, there are tournaments - the ATC among them - using this ruleset. They do not count embarked units as deployed and if you have not disembarked by turn 3, they are destroyed.

That is the tournament changing the rules though. Because units in a transport are demonstrably not Tactical Reserves.

I find that a vast number of players (in the local gaming scene) play that the unit + transport is 1 drop, and do not count as tactical reserves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah, look, it was already addressed in the Designer's Commentary:

Games Workshop wrote:
Q: In missions where players alternate deploying units,
do units that are set up somewhere other than the
battlefield still count as a player’s deployment choice?
What about units that begin the battle embarked within
a transport?

A: Units with abilities on their datasheets that allow
them to be set up somewhere other than the battlefield
must still be ‘set up’ in that locale, and so still count
as a deployment choice. When you choose to set up a
transport, declare what units (if any) are embarked
inside – these are not separate deployment choices.

So, units that are setup with their transport are not separate deployment choices. So, three units in a Land Raider is a single deployment choice.

 puma713 wrote:


Interesting take. My local scene plays it the way Marmatag described. Reason being: "When you set up a transport, units can start the battle embarked within it instead of being set up separately..."

So, you're not setting up two units. You're setting up one. Embarking a unit is not "setting it up" per the drop rules. Something is happening to the unit "instead" of setting it up. Therefore, the embarked unit is not "set up" at all.

I would say that it does say the unit is set up. It is just set up with the vehicle instead of separately. That's what that says to me.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:

 puma713 wrote:


Interesting take. My local scene plays it the way Marmatag described. Reason being: "When you set up a transport, units can start the battle embarked within it instead of being set up separately..."

So, you're not setting up two units. You're setting up one. Embarking a unit is not "setting it up" per the drop rules. Something is happening to the unit "instead" of setting it up. Therefore, the embarked unit is not "set up" at all.

I would say that it does say the unit is set up. It is just set up with the vehicle instead of separately. That's what that says to me.

See the FAQ above. The question is no longer what counts as a deployment choice (they made that clear for us), but are embarked units counted as Tactical Reserves?

 puma713 wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:

 puma713 wrote:


Interesting take. My local scene plays it the way Marmatag described. Reason being: "When you set up a transport, units can start the battle embarked within it instead of being set up separately..."

So, you're not setting up two units. You're setting up one. Embarking a unit is not "setting it up" per the drop rules. Something is happening to the unit "instead" of setting it up. Therefore, the embarked unit is not "set up" at all.

I would say that it does say the unit is set up. It is just set up with the vehicle instead of separately. That's what that says to me.

See the FAQ above. The question is no longer what counts as a deployment choice (they made that clear for us), but are embarked units counted as Tactical Reserves?

That is not even a debate. Tactical Reserves doesn't even really exist anymore. People are still hanging onto this idea that there is a singular off table place called "reserves" because of edition lag. There isn't.

Tau Battlesuits can be deployed in a Manta. Terminators in a Teleportarum Chamber. These units are not deployed into some generic "Reserves" Their rules allow them to be deployed into very specific places.

Placing unit's inside a transport literally places them in the transport. Where ever the transport is is where the unit is. If the transport is deployed on the table then the unit is on the table. If you set up the drop pod in orbit, you set up all the units inside in orbit with it.

IMHO, the intent of this rule is crystal clear. It is called 'tactical reserves' and discusses units that have an ability to be set-up somewhere else besides the battlefield. When embarked in a transport or fortification, yes the unit isn't on the battlefield, but its inside the transport/fortification, which itself is on the battlefield.

Ultimately this comes down to the fact that in 8th edition GW went hard away from using any generalized keywords in the rules (excluding the actual defined keywords on unit datasheets), so there is no longer anything called 'reserves' anymore. If there were, we all know that the rule would instead be: 'you must set-up at least 50% of your units on the battlefield and not in reserve', which would obviously exclude models embarked on transports/fortifications.

But because they don't use 'reserves' anymore (because, yay, bespoke rules!) this becomes an issue.

 Lance845 wrote:

That is not even a debate. Tactical Reserves doesn't even really exist anymore. People are still hanging onto this idea that there is a singular off table place called "reserves" because of edition lag. There isn't.

I was referring to the rule 'Tactical Reserves' on page 215. The question is, does setting up a unit embarked on a transport qualify as setting up a unit "elsewhere"? I don't think it is as clear cut as you suggest, but I agree with your interpretation in regards to the intent of the rule.

Transports Side Bar, third paragraph.

When you set up a Transport, units can start the battle embarked within it instead of being set up separately

The units are clearly deployed with it and go where it goes when being set up.

puma713 wrote:
Interesting take. My local scene plays it the way Marmatag described. Reason being: "When you set up a transport, units can start the battle embarked within it instead of being set up separately..."
So, you're not setting up two units. You're setting up one. Embarking a unit is not "setting it up" per the drop rules. Something is happening to the unit "instead" of setting it up. Therefore, the embarked unit is not "set up" at all.

As you quoted it says only "instead of being set up separately". It doesn´t say that it isn´t set up, just not separately.
So an embarked unit is set up, just embarked in another unit.

The rule tactical reserves is talking about units with special abilities that allows them not to be set up on the battlefield during deployment.
Then it says at least half of your units in your army must be set up on the battlefield, not half of your drops.

So 1 Chimera with a commissar, a platoon commander and an infantry squad are 4 units set up in 1 drop, just not separately. For those 4 units another 4 could make use of their special deployment ability.

Firefox1 wrote:

puma713 wrote:
Interesting take. My local scene plays it the way Marmatag described. Reason being: "When you set up a transport, units can start the battle embarked within it instead of being set up separately..."
So, you're not setting up two units. You're setting up one. Embarking a unit is not "setting it up" per the drop rules. Something is happening to the unit "instead" of setting it up. Therefore, the embarked unit is not "set up" at all.

As you quoted it says only "instead of being set up separately". It doesn´t say that it isn´t set up, just not separately.
So an embarked unit is set up, just embarked in another unit.

The rule tactical reserves is talking about units with special abilities that allows them not to be set up on the battlefield during deployment.
Then it says at least half of your units in your army must be set up on the battlefield, not half of your drops.

So 1 Chimera with a commissar, a platoon commander and an infantry squad are 4 units set up in 1 drop, just not separately. For those 4 units another 4 could make use of their special deployment ability.

Agreed. Thats the RAW.

But you can argue that the models embarked are not "on the battlefield". I don't agree with it, but you can argue it.

Firefox1 wrote:

puma713 wrote:
Interesting take. My local scene plays it the way Marmatag described. Reason being: "When you set up a transport, units can start the battle embarked within it instead of being set up separately..."
So, you're not setting up two units. You're setting up one. Embarking a unit is not "setting it up" per the drop rules. Something is happening to the unit "instead" of setting it up. Therefore, the embarked unit is not "set up" at all.

As you quoted it says only "instead of being set up separately". It doesn´t say that it isn´t set up, just not separately.
So an embarked unit is set up, just embarked in another unit.

The rule tactical reserves is talking about units with special abilities that allows them not to be set up on the battlefield during deployment.
Then it says at least half of your units in your army must be set up on the battlefield, not half of your drops.

So 1 Chimera with a commissar, a platoon commander and an infantry squad are 4 units set up in 1 drop, just not separately. For those 4 units another 4 could make use of their special deployment ability.

That's how we do it here too.

Designer's notes tells us that units in transports are not separate deployment choices. And, yes that Q&A is relevent as it was about deployment and first turn: rules only found in matched play(and annihilation open) where the 50% of units on the table rules exist.