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So apparently GW has been saying vehicle construction rules are making a return in chapter approved. As someone that came back into this hobby at the start of 6th, I don't know what that means, but it sounds like a big deal. Anyone got any insight?

If they're talking about an update to the old rules from the times beyond, I am excited as hell. Basically it was so that you take a base body, add various attributes to it (like weapons, movement, etc...) and then calculate the points at the end to make your own custom vehicle.

They did a similar thing with creatures later called Creature Feature.

When you tried to make existing vehicles with the system, it often ended up costing more than just taking it normally, but this also allowed you to make vehicles not represented at all in the game.

Ork players will surely love this, as it's basically the Looted wagon given life again.

As long as it isn't as bad as the one that was on this forum, sure I'm on board. That dude created a system that gave you a vehicle for -1 Points and didn't think it was a big deal.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
If they're talking about an update to the old rules from the times beyond, I am excited as hell. Basically it was so that you take a base body, add various attributes to it (like weapons, movement, etc...) and then calculate the points at the end to make your own custom vehicle.

They did a similar thing with creatures later called Creature Feature.

When you tried to make existing vehicles with the system, it often ended up costing more than just taking it normally, but this also allowed you to make vehicles not represented at all in the game.

Ork players will surely love this, as it's basically the Looted wagon given life again.

While that sounds awesome, it really sounds like something that wouldn't (and in my opinion shouldn't) make it into matched play. I haven't heard enough to know if that's the plan or not, though.

Even if they made it allowed to be in matched play, I doubt any of the vehicles would actually be viable. They generally came out to be overcosted for what they can do. In rare cases they can fill in some niche the army needs, but you paid for that flexibility.

I remember this from 3rd edition, it was a blast to make and configure special models specific for your custom faction and was fair because it wasn't unfairly priced, if you wanted to make a custom vehicle then more power to you, it will just cost more.

It's always been pretty easy to design vehicles close to reasonable cost with a little bit of work. Vehicle adaptation rules existed in RT and the 2nd ed. rulebook (I think it may have been in the Dark Millenium expansion actually...).

Expect a pretty simple table for base cost and then weapon costs etc. I'm looking forward to this as a narrative gamer - I've been wanting to make a Warlock Falcon/Wave Serpent for a while.

https://spikeybits.com/2016/07/40k-flashback-vehicle-design-rules-retro.html

This is a writeup on those 3rd ed VDR rules.

That deodorant flask grav tank was a RT relic given new life as an example.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
As long as it isn't as bad as the one that was on this forum, sure I'm on board. That dude created a system that gave you a vehicle for -1 Points and didn't think it was a big deal.

Fixed that after it was pointed out. Didn't think anyone would think a 2 hullpoint heavy vehicle with 10 armor all around with a single bolter was a cool modeling idea and needed to be made.

Latest rendition linked in my signature, if people want to take a look.

I've had an idea for an alternative version of the Baal Predator for years.

Twin Assault Cannon turret with Hurricane Bolters instead of sponsons. Seems like a no-brainer and would be super simple to build using the Storm Raven hurricane bolters as they fit rhino doors perfectly (I do believe).

Another idea I had was a twin plasma cannon Razorback. I always found it strange that there was no plasma cannon option for Razorbacks (be it a single plasma cannon or a pair of them).

Meh, time will tell, but I'm certainly excited to see the rules for it in the future.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Red__Thirst wrote:
I've had an idea for an alternative version of the Baal Predator for years.

Twin Assault Cannon turret with Hurricane Bolters instead of sponsons. Seems like a no-brainer and would be super simple to build using the Storm Raven hurricane bolters as they fit rhino doors perfectly (I do believe).

Another idea I had was a twin plasma cannon Razorback. I always found it strange that there was no plasma cannon option for Razorbacks (be it a single plasma cannon or a pair of them).

Meh, time will tell, but I'm certainly excited to see the rules for it in the future.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

So much yes, that would be so much fun to use. It would make Orks giggle with joy, even as it cuts them down.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
As long as it isn't as bad as the one that was on this forum, sure I'm on board. That dude created a system that gave you a vehicle for -1 Points and didn't think it was a big deal.

Fixed that after it was pointed out. Didn't think anyone would think a 2 hullpoint heavy vehicle with 10 armor all around with a single bolter was a cool modeling idea and needed to be made.

Latest rendition linked in my signature, if people want to take a look.

Which is basically the mistake GW designers make all the time. They didn't think people would take 2++ rerollable deathstars or spam 100s of conscripts so they didn't balance the rules around it

 CrownAxe wrote:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
As long as it isn't as bad as the one that was on this forum, sure I'm on board. That dude created a system that gave you a vehicle for -1 Points and didn't think it was a big deal.

Fixed that after it was pointed out. Didn't think anyone would think a 2 hullpoint heavy vehicle with 10 armor all around with a single bolter was a cool modeling idea and needed to be made.

Latest rendition linked in my signature, if people want to take a look.

Which is basically the mistake GW designers make all the time. They didn't think people would take 2++ rerollable deathstars or spam 100s of conscripts so they didn't balance the rules around it

Unlike them I listened to community feedback and changed the rules to lessen those possibilities. The o ly reason I responded to the original quote above was the inference that I was totally on with that as an idea and did nothing about it.

 Purifier wrote:
So apparently GW has been saying vehicle construction rules are making a return in chapter approved. As someone that came back into this hobby at the start of 6th, I don't know what that means, but it sounds like a big deal. Anyone got any insight?

So what it the source for this 'GW has been saying'?

Their community website specifically talks about it...

Well, the previous vehicle design rules SUCKED.

So they have a low bar to produce something better.


So many of these systems are fundamentally flawed. The cost of armour, speed, etc. has to be a function of the value of the payload (weapons and transport). Adding a point of armour is worth way more on a vehicle that's dripping with guns than it is on a scout vehicle with a single autocannon.

Also, the ability to mount more guns has to cost more than just the guns themselves otherwise you can make all of the stock vehicles better simply by throwing guns at them.

 Crimson wrote:

 Purifier wrote:
So apparently GW has been saying vehicle construction rules are making a return in chapter approved. As someone that came back into this hobby at the start of 6th, I don't know what that means, but it sounds like a big deal. Anyone got any insight?

So what it the source for this 'GW has been saying'?

Warhammer Community. Here's the link:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/31/breaking-news-studio-preview-from-the-nova-open/

However it's buried way down there in the Chapter Approved section so it's easily missed.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Warhammer Community. Here's the link:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/31/breaking-news-studio-preview-from-the-nova-open/

However it's buried way down there in the Chapter Approved section so it's easily missed.

Cool! Thank you.

One more reason to magnetise all your vehicle weapons!

They specifically say that it's for making Land Raider variants.

I wouldn't expect much more than an generic army list entry for the hull, and then a big list of sponson/hull weapons.

Given that the Terminus Ultra and Ares were Apocalypse units, it's wouldn't be entirely surprising to see their return. Possibly also the Excelsior.
(Bet we still don't find out what the Demos is armed with, though...)

The Excelsior has rules in the Index. So does the Terminus Ultra. Only the Ares lack rules right now, but that was because it's the only variant to explicitly be a conversion (the Terminus was a predator and razorback sprue tacked on to a standard land raider, while the Excelsior has it's own, albeit very limited, kit).

Looking forward to this. I hope this will allow me to field my light assault tank. It's a chimera chassis with a conqueror turret.

Again as someone said above, GW mentioned the new experimental rules are about designing Land Raider variants. Consider your hopes pre-dashed if you expect anything else.

Granted, their new "Naked models then add on points" system makes it already sort of a "build your own vehicles" thing already. The only issue is that the base cost of the vehicles aren't accounted for every weapon possible so it would give you some weird point costs, but considering this is already in the realms of house rules, some tweaking is to be expected.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
They specifically say that it's for making Land Raider variants.

I wouldn't expect much more than an generic army list entry for the hull, and then a big list of sponson/hull weapons.

Given that the Terminus Ultra and Ares were Apocalypse units, it's wouldn't be entirely surprising to see their return. Possibly also the Excelsior.
(Bet we still don't find out what the Demos is armed with, though...)

So I can finally make my predator + landraider bastard love child?

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Again as someone said above, GW mentioned the new experimental rules are about designing Land Raider variants. Consider your hopes pre-dashed if you expect anything else.

That's not a bad thing though. It allows for fixing of burst help expand it to other vehicles at a later point.