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So, this is a stupid question, but I'm asking anyway because I'm frustrated enough to chew steel right now. I've been trying to put transfers on my latest set of Dark Imperium Intercessors, but after struggling to get the decals off the sheet they fall apart due to all the tearing and cutting. My other decals weren't near as bad as this batch, where I messed up 4 out of 5 of the chapter symbols, 2 of them so badly as to make them unusable. Am I just a stupid clumsy moron, or is there some trick to getting them off the sheet in one piece without fuss? I've been using an Xacto knife to cut around the transfer and then peel it off the sheet by prying it up where I made my cuts, but maybe this is too much of a brute force method or something? All I know is I don't want to destroy any more irreplacable decals (I'm gonna have to borrow regular ones from other kits for the other two guys now, which won't look the same because different size).

Eep. No. You absolutely do not remove them by cutting or peeling or anything. You're supposed to soak them in water for ~30 seconds and the glue holding them on to the backing paper will dissolve, leaving the decal free to slide onto the model. If it takes more force than lightly pushing it with a paint brush then you aren't doing it right.

Yeah, you should just be cutting around them to get them free of the rest of the sheet, and then soaking in water to free them from the backing paper. Then slide onto the model.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Yeah, you should just be cutting around them to get them free of the rest of the sheet, and then soaking in water to free them from the backing paper. Then slide onto the model.

That's what I always do. It's getting them free from the rest of the sheet without mangling them that's the issue.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe I should just cut out the part of the sheet I'm trying to use completely then work with that. Like I said, I'm sure I'm just being a fool somewhere along the line.

Eh?

1- Take sharp knife
2- Using knife, cut around symbol you wish to apply, being sure to leave a small gap of at least 2mm so you're cutting the backing paper not the decal, if in doubt hold it at an angle and look for where the shiny finish of the decal finishes and the matt of the paper starts.
3- Drop freshly cut out decal into a saucer or similar of clean water.
4- Soak for at least 30 seconds, usually longer, until gentle pressure cause the decal to move around on the backing.
5-Using tweesers or some other handy tool, lift decal and backing from water and use a brush or other soft item (cotton buds/q tips for instance) to slide on to model. A little water on the model can help give a little time to adjust the position.
6- gently dab excess moisture away, do not rub, with a piece of tissue

7- Eventually start exploring adding a gloss coat first and using setting solution to get a "paintend on" finish.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Eh?

1- Take sharp knife
2- Using knife, cut around symbol you wish to apply, being sure to leave a small gap of at least 2mm so you're cutting the backing paper not the decal, if in doubt hold it at an angle and look for where the shiny finish of the decal finishes and the matt of the paper starts.
3- Drop freshly cut out decal into a saucer or similar of clean water.
4- Soak for at least 30 seconds, usually longer, until gentle pressure cause the decal to move around on the backing.
5-Using tweesers or some other handy tool, lift decal and backing from water and use a brush or other soft item (cotton buds/q tips for instance) to slide on to model. A little water on the model can help give a little time to adjust the position.
6- gently dab excess moisture away, do not rub, with a piece of tissue

7- Eventually start exploring adding a gloss coat first and using setting solution to get a "paintend on" finish.

Okay, that may be where I'm going wrong (step 4). I'm not soaking them long enough. Then when I try to move them off the backing, parts of them stick and the decal tears because it is delicate. Okay, I'll start soaking them longer.

Also, I notch them a little so that they can overlap themselves and fit onto the complex curve of a Marine's shoulder pad easier, maybe I should stop doing that.

It's subtle, but if you look carefully you'll notice that the backing paper drops a shade when it's soaked through, if you can see any patches of the lighter dry colour then it isn't ready, but the worst that can happen if you soak too long is the decal lifts completely and floats free, you can still fish it out with a brush and apply it.

If it's one of the symbols that wrinkles, a cut is still a good idea, although I prefer using a decal softener that does need more handling of the decal so might be worth getting a bit more confidence first.

Well, I went ahead and had another go and it worked a lot better once I soaked a bit more. I also applied a little more decal set solution to the pad before applying the decals. I probably didn't need to start this thread at all, but I figured I wasn't the only one who struggled with decals. Indeed, I never used to use them at all because of this issue. I'm glad I use them now, because my freehand is garbage.

One thing I can now say, the transfers GW provides have definitely improved in recent years. I just put on a couple of the old ones to replace the two destroyed Dark Imperium ones, and there's a lot more clear transfer part around the actual symbol, making cutting a couple of notches a necessity (along with using decal set solution) if you want the decal to be flush with the surface of the shoulder pad. The Dark Imperium transfers probably don't need it at all, although I still think decal set is a good idea.

Anyway, thanks for bearing with me guys. I think I panicked for no reason, but the problem is solved, so I'm happy.

I know you've already figured it all out, but a further suggestion is to use slightly warm water. Not boiling hot but just a but above room temperature, maybe as hot as you might have a warm shower.

The decals will release and slide easier with warm water compared to cold. I know one professional scale modeler who even went to the extreme of buying a shallow heated water bath for to maintain warm decal water for long modelling sessions.

Follow this step by step and watch your frustration disappear.

http://www.winterdyne.co.uk/maz/winterdyne_tutorial3.pdf

I've had the same problem a few times, usually its because I've soaked them for too long.

And being over zealous with cutting them to get them to fit properly on marine shoulder pads...

on the subject of decals...

how does one go about weathering them exactly? I find, once I put them on properly, they're pretty impervious to all but what ends up also marring the surface of the plastic they sit on. And pre-weathering them just seems to make it hard to get them on properly.

Theoretically, if you are doing the Winterdyne-styled gloss coat-decal-matte coat, then paint will probably stick to the matte coat for weathering.

I use a damp sponge, like the kind you used to get in blister packs, to moisten the decals, just soak the sponge then put the decal on top. Stops them floating off when they are ready, and having to try and fish it out and damaging it.

 JamesY wrote:
I use a damp sponge, like the kind you used to get in blister packs, to moisten the decals, just soak the sponge then put the decal on top. Stops them floating off when they are ready, and having to try and fish it out and damaging it.

Often I'll just throw a few drops of water on my desk and sit the decal on top so it can soak through and use an paint brush to test if the decal is loosened.

I don't care if I water damage my desk though, lol.

I use warm water - always have.
Rather than fresh and cold from the tap.

Seems to work better than cold - and apply it to a gloss varnished surface. Apply softener and then shape to suit.

That said, I usually just tossed the 40k waterslides - I've never used them.

 chromedog wrote:
I use warm water - always have.
Rather than fresh and cold from the tap.

Seems to work better than cold - and apply it to a gloss varnished surface. Apply softener and then shape to suit.

That said, I usually just tossed the 40k waterslides - I've never used them.

Warm water definitely is better suited to the task. However my decalling sessions usually last a few hours and it becomes a hassle walking to and from the kitchen to get warm water, shallow pools of water cool faster than my laziness will abide.

I use a wet palette to soak decals, rather than a pool of water. Also, poke 'em with a paintbrush now and then - if they don't move freely, leave 'em to soak a bit longer. Pick up the decal - backing sheet and all - then slide it from the paper onto the model. That should minimise the risk of it folding up and getting mangled.

Some decals are more fragile than others. The current GW and Forge World decals should be pretty resilient (although the flip side of that is a thicker carrier film, which may make them more noticeable on the models).