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 Xenomancers wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:


That's because crap like this isn't really that common, considering the amount of interaction that goes on between police and John Q. Public every day. The hype machine and media ratings mongers ensure that it becomes "an epidemic".


There isn't any real need for your special measures. What abuse goes on, it gets handled well enough in most cases by the systems we have in place. The prosecution of officers involved in unjustifiable shootings recently is proof of that. You are going to have hiccups and ball dropping in ANY system (It isn't perfect by any means). But for the most part, it works like it supposed to if people will let it. The issue here is that some among the general public whipped up in a frenzy, grievance industry profiteers, and politically motivated don't want to hear that. Especially if a investigation doesn't go their way.

Horsegak, it does not get handled in house and this very case proves it. It was going to be brushed right under the rug until this video. Officers were more than happy to let this be forgotten, until an outside group said no. The only reason we know about this is because it was privately recorded. Same with Phillando Castille. Same with the cop who shot the man in the back while he was fleeing. You cannot tell me the system is working fine when there are still cops refusing to turn on body cameras or "forgetting" to turn them on. This system is not working for us. It is great for the cops though.

Payne was wearing a body cam though. It recorded the whole event - interesting we don't see the whole event in any press release. You basically only see the parts they want you to see. The parts that play on your emotions. You don't see the parts where Payne likely calmly explained she was going to be arrested if she didn't stop getting in his way. You don't see the part where the officer yells at Castille 3 times "not to reach for it" and still does anyways because hes stoned out of his mind. You don't see the part where brown is charging a police officer that he just punched through his window - you just see a junior high yearbook photo with lego blocks in the background. You are getting played by professional liars with agendas.

But that implies that she should even have been arrested in the first place.

That had no warrant. They had no right to do ANYTHING.
You're implying that they actually had a reason to be there in the first place, and could have legally arrested her - they didn't.
Not only that, but we even see footage of Payne's OWN BODY CAMERA - tell me, where does it show him "calmly explaining she was going to be arrested"? Even if she COULD be arrested, which she couldn't be!
She was doing her job, ensuring the safety of her patients. The police were not.
If you're calling the people defending her as being "played by professional liars", I dread to think what you are.

You're making out like the officers here had any power to do anything. They didn't.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:


That's because crap like this isn't really that common, considering the amount of interaction that goes on between police and John Q. Public every day. The hype machine and media ratings mongers ensure that it becomes "an epidemic".


There isn't any real need for your special measures. What abuse goes on, it gets handled well enough in most cases by the systems we have in place. The prosecution of officers involved in unjustifiable shootings recently is proof of that. You are going to have hiccups and ball dropping in ANY system (It isn't perfect by any means). But for the most part, it works like it supposed to if people will let it. The issue here is that some among the general public whipped up in a frenzy, grievance industry profiteers, and politically motivated don't want to hear that. Especially if a investigation doesn't go their way.

Horsegak, it does not get handled in house and this very case proves it. It was going to be brushed right under the rug until this video. Officers were more than happy to let this be forgotten, until an outside group said no. The only reason we know about this is because it was privately recorded. Same with Phillando Castille. Same with the cop who shot the man in the back while he was fleeing. You cannot tell me the system is working fine when there are still cops refusing to turn on body cameras or "forgetting" to turn them on. This system is not working for us. It is great for the cops though.

Payne was wearing a body cam though. It recorded the whole event - interesting we don't see the whole event in any press release. You basically only see the parts they want you to see. The parts that play on your emotions. You don't see the parts where Payne likely calmly explained she was going to be arrested if she didn't stop getting in his way. You don't see the part where the officer yells at Castille 3 times "not to reach for it" and still does anyways because hes stoned out of his mind. You don't see the part where brown is charging a police officer that he just punched through his window - you just see a junior high yearbook photo with lego blocks in the background. You are getting played by professional liars with agendas.

So you're basing your argument on the supposition that there's video that we haven't seen of Payne saying/doing something that we have no reason to believe he did? Payne literally had no legal standing to take blood from Gray. Payne was 100% in the wrong. Not only that but the only thing Wubbels did was verbally state that no hospital staff would give him a blood sample or take on for him and that he wasn't allowed to take one himself. At no time did any hospital staff member do anything to physically restrain Payne from taking blood from Gray. Payne chose not to get the sample himself and arrested Wubbels without any legal standing. Payne's body camera footage isn't going to show him trying to take blood himself and it isn't going to show any hospital staff making any attempt to restrain Payne because those things never happened.

There has yet to be any finding by any authority that any hospital staffer did anything wrong in this situation and there never will be because the hospital has the law on their side.

Prestor Jon wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:


That's because crap like this isn't really that common, considering the amount of interaction that goes on between police and John Q. Public every day. The hype machine and media ratings mongers ensure that it becomes "an epidemic".


There isn't any real need for your special measures. What abuse goes on, it gets handled well enough in most cases by the systems we have in place. The prosecution of officers involved in unjustifiable shootings recently is proof of that. You are going to have hiccups and ball dropping in ANY system (It isn't perfect by any means). But for the most part, it works like it supposed to if people will let it. The issue here is that some among the general public whipped up in a frenzy, grievance industry profiteers, and politically motivated don't want to hear that. Especially if a investigation doesn't go their way.

Horsegak, it does not get handled in house and this very case proves it. It was going to be brushed right under the rug until this video. Officers were more than happy to let this be forgotten, until an outside group said no. The only reason we know about this is because it was privately recorded. Same with Phillando Castille. Same with the cop who shot the man in the back while he was fleeing. You cannot tell me the system is working fine when there are still cops refusing to turn on body cameras or "forgetting" to turn them on. This system is not working for us. It is great for the cops though.

Payne was wearing a body cam though. It recorded the whole event - interesting we don't see the whole event in any press release. You basically only see the parts they want you to see. The parts that play on your emotions. You don't see the parts where Payne likely calmly explained she was going to be arrested if she didn't stop getting in his way. You don't see the part where the officer yells at Castille 3 times "not to reach for it" and still does anyways because hes stoned out of his mind. You don't see the part where brown is charging a police officer that he just punched through his window - you just see a junior high yearbook photo with lego blocks in the background. You are getting played by professional liars with agendas.

So you're basing your argument on the supposition that there's video that we haven't seen of Payne saying/doing something that we have no reason to believe he did? Payne literally had no legal standing to take blood from Gray. Payne was 100% in the wrong. Not only that but the only thing Wubbels did was verbally state that no hospital staff would give him a blood sample or take on for him and that he wasn't allowed to take one himself. At no time did any hospital staff member do anything to physically restrain Payne from taking blood from Gray. Payne chose not to get the sample himself and arrested Wubbels without any legal standing. Payne's body camera footage isn't going to show him trying to take blood himself and it isn't going to show any hospital staff making any attempt to restrain Payne because those things never happened.

There has yet to be any finding by any authority that any hospital staffer did anything wrong in this situation and there never will be because the hospital has the law on their side.

And in fact both official reports so far have commended Wubbels, while finding fault with the officers.

Commended, as in 'good job, Nurse, you kept your head while these two morons went out of their way to be jackasses'.

Anyone wanna bet that those investigations do have the 'full footage'?

'Cause, frankly, betting against it would be giving your money away.

The Auld Grump *EDIT* My spellchecker really wanted Wubbels to be named Whuffles.....

 TheAuldGrump wrote:


The Auld Grump *EDIT* My spellchecker really wanted Wubbels to be named Whuffles.....

I'm gonna be honest. WHen I first read this I read it as "wanted wubbels to be named waffles" and now all I can think about is how awesome it would be to be Nurse Waffles XD

Prestor Jon wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:


That's because crap like this isn't really that common, considering the amount of interaction that goes on between police and John Q. Public every day. The hype machine and media ratings mongers ensure that it becomes "an epidemic".


There isn't any real need for your special measures. What abuse goes on, it gets handled well enough in most cases by the systems we have in place. The prosecution of officers involved in unjustifiable shootings recently is proof of that. You are going to have hiccups and ball dropping in ANY system (It isn't perfect by any means). But for the most part, it works like it supposed to if people will let it. The issue here is that some among the general public whipped up in a frenzy, grievance industry profiteers, and politically motivated don't want to hear that. Especially if a investigation doesn't go their way.

Horsegak, it does not get handled in house and this very case proves it. It was going to be brushed right under the rug until this video. Officers were more than happy to let this be forgotten, until an outside group said no. The only reason we know about this is because it was privately recorded. Same with Phillando Castille. Same with the cop who shot the man in the back while he was fleeing. You cannot tell me the system is working fine when there are still cops refusing to turn on body cameras or "forgetting" to turn them on. This system is not working for us. It is great for the cops though.

Payne was wearing a body cam though. It recorded the whole event - interesting we don't see the whole event in any press release. You basically only see the parts they want you to see. The parts that play on your emotions. You don't see the parts where Payne likely calmly explained she was going to be arrested if she didn't stop getting in his way. You don't see the part where the officer yells at Castille 3 times "not to reach for it" and still does anyways because hes stoned out of his mind. You don't see the part where brown is charging a police officer that he just punched through his window - you just see a junior high yearbook photo with lego blocks in the background. You are getting played by professional liars with agendas.

So you're basing your argument on the supposition that there's video that we haven't seen of Payne saying/doing something that we have no reason to believe he did? Payne literally had no legal standing to take blood from Gray. Payne was 100% in the wrong. Not only that but the only thing Wubbels did was verbally state that no hospital staff would give him a blood sample or take on for him and that he wasn't allowed to take one himself. At no time did any hospital staff member do anything to physically restrain Payne from taking blood from Gray. Payne chose not to get the sample himself and arrested Wubbels without any legal standing. Payne's body camera footage isn't going to show him trying to take blood himself and it isn't going to show any hospital staff making any attempt to restrain Payne because those things never happened.

There has yet to be any finding by any authority that any hospital staffer did anything wrong in this situation and there never will be because the hospital has the law on their side.

I suppose the video just starts with him standing in the middle of a hospital ward surrounded by hospital staff with her reading out of a handbook? There are no events leading up to this? We see 2 minutes - this whole event probably took over 20 minutes - there is obviously part of the video they aren't showing. It could just be uninteresting video - it could be something worth seeing. In any case the omission is not genuine. Much like the title of this thread. That is not why she was arrested.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

Prestor Jon wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:


That's because crap like this isn't really that common, considering the amount of interaction that goes on between police and John Q. Public every day. The hype machine and media ratings mongers ensure that it becomes "an epidemic".


There isn't any real need for your special measures. What abuse goes on, it gets handled well enough in most cases by the systems we have in place. The prosecution of officers involved in unjustifiable shootings recently is proof of that. You are going to have hiccups and ball dropping in ANY system (It isn't perfect by any means). But for the most part, it works like it supposed to if people will let it. The issue here is that some among the general public whipped up in a frenzy, grievance industry profiteers, and politically motivated don't want to hear that. Especially if a investigation doesn't go their way.

Horsegak, it does not get handled in house and this very case proves it. It was going to be brushed right under the rug until this video. Officers were more than happy to let this be forgotten, until an outside group said no. The only reason we know about this is because it was privately recorded. Same with Phillando Castille. Same with the cop who shot the man in the back while he was fleeing. You cannot tell me the system is working fine when there are still cops refusing to turn on body cameras or "forgetting" to turn them on. This system is not working for us. It is great for the cops though.

Payne was wearing a body cam though. It recorded the whole event - interesting we don't see the whole event in any press release. You basically only see the parts they want you to see. The parts that play on your emotions. You don't see the parts where Payne likely calmly explained she was going to be arrested if she didn't stop getting in his way. You don't see the part where the officer yells at Castille 3 times "not to reach for it" and still does anyways because hes stoned out of his mind. You don't see the part where brown is charging a police officer that he just punched through his window - you just see a junior high yearbook photo with lego blocks in the background. You are getting played by professional liars with agendas.

So you're basing your argument on the supposition that there's video that we haven't seen of Payne saying/doing something that we have no reason to believe he did? Payne literally had no legal standing to take blood from Gray. Payne was 100% in the wrong. Not only that but the only thing Wubbels did was verbally state that no hospital staff would give him a blood sample or take on for him and that he wasn't allowed to take one himself. At no time did any hospital staff member do anything to physically restrain Payne from taking blood from Gray. Payne chose not to get the sample himself and arrested Wubbels without any legal standing. Payne's body camera footage isn't going to show him trying to take blood himself and it isn't going to show any hospital staff making any attempt to restrain Payne because those things never happened.

There has yet to be any finding by any authority that any hospital staffer did anything wrong in this situation and there never will be because the hospital has the law on their side.

And in fact both official reports so far have commended Wubbels, while finding fault with the officers.

Commended, as in 'good job, Nurse, you kept your head while these two morons went out of their way to be jackasses'.

Anyone wanna bet that those investigations do have the 'full footage'?

'Cause, frankly, betting against it would be giving your money away.

The Auld Grump *EDIT* My spellchecker really wanted Wubbels to be named Whuffles.....

It's just PR. They did nothing about it until the video was released 2 months after this took place.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:


That's because crap like this isn't really that common, considering the amount of interaction that goes on between police and John Q. Public every day. The hype machine and media ratings mongers ensure that it becomes "an epidemic".


There isn't any real need for your special measures. What abuse goes on, it gets handled well enough in most cases by the systems we have in place. The prosecution of officers involved in unjustifiable shootings recently is proof of that. You are going to have hiccups and ball dropping in ANY system (It isn't perfect by any means). But for the most part, it works like it supposed to if people will let it. The issue here is that some among the general public whipped up in a frenzy, grievance industry profiteers, and politically motivated don't want to hear that. Especially if a investigation doesn't go their way.

Horsegak, it does not get handled in house and this very case proves it. It was going to be brushed right under the rug until this video. Officers were more than happy to let this be forgotten, until an outside group said no. The only reason we know about this is because it was privately recorded. Same with Phillando Castille. Same with the cop who shot the man in the back while he was fleeing. You cannot tell me the system is working fine when there are still cops refusing to turn on body cameras or "forgetting" to turn them on. This system is not working for us. It is great for the cops though.

Payne was wearing a body cam though. It recorded the whole event - interesting we don't see the whole event in any press release. You basically only see the parts they want you to see. The parts that play on your emotions. You don't see the parts where Payne likely calmly explained she was going to be arrested if she didn't stop getting in his way. You don't see the part where the officer yells at Castille 3 times "not to reach for it" and still does anyways because hes stoned out of his mind. You don't see the part where brown is charging a police officer that he just punched through his window - you just see a junior high yearbook photo with lego blocks in the background. You are getting played by professional liars with agendas.

lol, did you just say "stoned out of his mind."? I bet you think Marijuana is a dangerous drug.

See, these all are things we did not see until the public had its own video. We would have never seen the Castillo body cam, had it not been for the FB livestream of him being murdered

Also, there was no calmly explaining to the nurse she would be arrested if she continued to get in his way. Because it is her job and duty as a healthcare professional to stop him from doing this. I don't know how many times I can explain that to you.

You just don't know what you are talking about and you have formed your own narrative of the situation because of "professional liars with agendas." You have little knowledge of the law involved in this and the policies. You are the perfect "low information voter" in this scenario.

I don't think it's dangerous - but I can almost guarantee that's why hes dead. The FB live stream did not show him being murdered ether - it showed him dead after the fact. In other words - it's more useless emotional video that proves nothing. The police car cam caught it all though and it shows the cop yelling at him and then shooting him - which fits with what the cops said happened. Professional liars are called media these days. Their agenda is to make cops look like racist lunatic killers because it drives ratings not to mention their left leaning politics ether. I do think Payne made mistakes here - I just don't see other than you being blinded by confirmation bias how you could not want all the details here. Why did Payne insist on getting the blood sample if he had not legal right to it? Did his superiors lead him to think he did. Where is the rest of the video?

 Xenomancers wrote:

Prestor Jon wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:


That's because crap like this isn't really that common, considering the amount of interaction that goes on between police and John Q. Public every day. The hype machine and media ratings mongers ensure that it becomes "an epidemic".


There isn't any real need for your special measures. What abuse goes on, it gets handled well enough in most cases by the systems we have in place. The prosecution of officers involved in unjustifiable shootings recently is proof of that. You are going to have hiccups and ball dropping in ANY system (It isn't perfect by any means). But for the most part, it works like it supposed to if people will let it. The issue here is that some among the general public whipped up in a frenzy, grievance industry profiteers, and politically motivated don't want to hear that. Especially if a investigation doesn't go their way.

Horsegak, it does not get handled in house and this very case proves it. It was going to be brushed right under the rug until this video. Officers were more than happy to let this be forgotten, until an outside group said no. The only reason we know about this is because it was privately recorded. Same with Phillando Castille. Same with the cop who shot the man in the back while he was fleeing. You cannot tell me the system is working fine when there are still cops refusing to turn on body cameras or "forgetting" to turn them on. This system is not working for us. It is great for the cops though.

Payne was wearing a body cam though. It recorded the whole event - interesting we don't see the whole event in any press release. You basically only see the parts they want you to see. The parts that play on your emotions. You don't see the parts where Payne likely calmly explained she was going to be arrested if she didn't stop getting in his way. You don't see the part where the officer yells at Castille 3 times "not to reach for it" and still does anyways because hes stoned out of his mind. You don't see the part where brown is charging a police officer that he just punched through his window - you just see a junior high yearbook photo with lego blocks in the background. You are getting played by professional liars with agendas.

So you're basing your argument on the supposition that there's video that we haven't seen of Payne saying/doing something that we have no reason to believe he did? Payne literally had no legal standing to take blood from Gray. Payne was 100% in the wrong. Not only that but the only thing Wubbels did was verbally state that no hospital staff would give him a blood sample or take on for him and that he wasn't allowed to take one himself. At no time did any hospital staff member do anything to physically restrain Payne from taking blood from Gray. Payne chose not to get the sample himself and arrested Wubbels without any legal standing. Payne's body camera footage isn't going to show him trying to take blood himself and it isn't going to show any hospital staff making any attempt to restrain Payne because those things never happened.

There has yet to be any finding by any authority that any hospital staffer did anything wrong in this situation and there never will be because the hospital has the law on their side.

I suppose the video just starts with him standing in the middle of a hospital ward surrounded by hospital staff with her reading out of a handbook? There are no events leading up to this? We see 2 minutes - this whole event probably took over 20 minutes - there is obviously part of the video they aren't showing. It could just be uninteresting video - it could be something worth seeing. In any case the omission is not genuine. Much like the title of this thread. That is not why she was arrested.

Do you think the investigation that concluded that Payne never should have arrested the nurse at all didn't view the entire videotape? The reason we haven't seen the entire tap is because the only reason we've seen any video at all is because Wubbels' lawyer released it at a press conference because in the weeks following the incident the police department hadn't taken any steps to reign in the officers who intimidated and terrorized hospital staff. The police could release all of the video if they wanted to and if it actually contained some footage that somehow exonerated Payne and Tracy it would be in their interest to do so but they haven't. The police have concluded that Payne was wrong to make the arrest and he was wrong to detain Wubbels. Why do you think Payne arrested Wubbels? Utah state law and Feseral law show that Wubbels was in the right and Payne is on video admitting he had no warrant and he clearly misrepresents the law and refuses to believe multiple hospital staffers who calmly and professionally explain the law to him. There is literally no evidence or legal justification that you can cite that supports Payne arresting Wubbels or gives Payne a legal right to a blood sample from Gray. The only reasons for arresting Wubbels like that are Payne's demonstrable incompetence, ignorance and anger issues.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I suppose the video just starts with him standing in the middle of a hospital ward surrounded by hospital staff with her reading out of a handbook? There are no events leading up to this? We see 2 minutes - this whole event probably took over 20 minutes - there is obviously part of the video they aren't showing. It could just be uninteresting video - it could be something worth seeing. In any case the omission is not genuine. Much like the title of this thread. That is not why she was arrested.

Did you watch the video in the OP? That's nearly 20 minutes long, and doesn't start with Payne surrounded at all. In fact, that only happens 5 minutes in. So, what proof do you have?

Again, you're the one without any evidence to support your claim. Like in any argument, I'm going to ask you to actually prove something you're saying, because at the moment, all the evidence we've seen points to Payne being completely out of his mind and station.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I suppose the video just starts with him standing in the middle of a hospital ward surrounded by hospital staff with her reading out of a handbook? There are no events leading up to this? We see 2 minutes - this whole event probably took over 20 minutes - there is obviously part of the video they aren't showing. It could just be uninteresting video - it could be something worth seeing. In any case the omission is not genuine. Much like the title of this thread. That is not why she was arrested.

Did you watch the video in the OP? That's nearly 20 minutes long, and doesn't start with Payne surrounded at all. In fact, that only happens 5 minutes in. So, what proof do you have?

Again, you're the one without any evidence to support your claim. Like in any argument, I'm going to ask you to actually prove something you're saying, because at the moment, all the evidence we've seen points to Payne being completely out of his mind and station.

There is no point talking with him about this, Sgt. He has proven throughout the thread that he has no ability to comprehend the situation or laws involved that the state of Utah and U.S. Supreme Court has in place or the fact that the hospital had worked out with the SLPD over a year before conditions that the nurse read to the officer for a blood draw.

More video of the incident:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yia7qs01z1M

Let's play nice now.

So the same poster is still trying to...I really don't know anymore.
The officer was wrong.
There is literally nothing that the police officer did right in the case the PD hasn't a leg to stand on.

Its a tough job being in law enforcement but I think the time for those in blue to be given deference because its expected has long since passed.

Xenomancers, what do want to see in this case?

 Xenomancers wrote:
I suppose the video just starts with him standing in the middle of a hospital ward surrounded by hospital staff with her reading out of a handbook? There are no events leading up to this? We see 2 minutes - this whole event probably took over 20 minutes - there is obviously part of the video they aren't showing. It could just be uninteresting video - it could be something worth seeing. In any case the omission is not genuine. Much like the title of this thread. That is not why she was arrested.

So basically you've just proved you haven't even watched the video in the OP.

The full video isn't 2 minutes, it is, funnily enough, 20 minutes. The arrest in question doesn't even occur until about 7 minutes in to the video and the last 12 minutes or so is the cops discussing how they done fethed up prior to releasing the nurse they just kidnapped.

There's a reason almost no one is coming to the copper's defence. I'm sure it would have just been swept under the rug if the (20 minute) video hadn't been released to the public, but once it has it's hard to do anything but commend the nurse and condemn the cops (and their lack of knowledge pertaining to the job they were assigned to do).

It might have already been mentioned, but Gray (the guy they were trying to draw blood from) was a trucker is actually a reserve Police officer and this is the incident that put him in to the burns ward at the hospital in the first place...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEeSmhTyM5o

How many posters, who disagree with each other on almost everything, are actually agreeing here?

That alone should tell you that the cop was wrong.

 d-usa wrote:
How many posters, who disagree with each other on almost everything, are actually agreeing here?

That alone should tell you that the cop was wrong.

I honestly think you can count the number of threads with just about universal agreement on one hand. I can only think of two off the top of my head; this one, and that one about whether or not ex-cons should be allowed to vote/buy guns once their debt is paid.

 d-usa wrote:
How many posters, who disagree with each other on almost everything, are actually agreeing here?

That alone should tell you that the cop was wrong.

To be fair, you could ask that exact same question about virtually any opinion that has been vomited from that account. I've written it off as an elaborate troll account for a while now.

This afternoon I was talking to a PA from the hospital. We talked about what is being done to prevent such stupidity from happening in the future. It is pretty much everything that has already been in the news.
The thing that interested me was being told that the hospital staff aren't currently really discussing it that much, at least in her area.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I suppose the video just starts with him standing in the middle of a hospital ward surrounded by hospital staff with her reading out of a handbook? There are no events leading up to this? We see 2 minutes - this whole event probably took over 20 minutes - there is obviously part of the video they aren't showing. It could just be uninteresting video - it could be something worth seeing. In any case the omission is not genuine. Much like the title of this thread. That is not why she was arrested.

So basically you've just proved you haven't even watched the video in the OP.

The full video isn't 2 minutes, it is, funnily enough, 20 minutes. The arrest in question doesn't even occur until about 7 minutes in to the video and the last 12 minutes or so is the cops discussing how they done fethed up prior to releasing the nurse they just kidnapped.

There's a reason almost no one is coming to the copper's defence. I'm sure it would have just been swept under the rug if the (20 minute) video hadn't been released to the public, but once it has it's hard to do anything but commend the nurse and condemn the cops (and their lack of knowledge pertaining to the job they were assigned to do).

It might have already been mentioned, but Gray (the guy they were trying to draw blood from) was a trucker is actually a reserve Police officer and this is the incident that put him in to the burns ward at the hospital in the first place...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEeSmhTyM5o

That point bears repeating as it gets buried in the thread as well as the fact his department in Idaho contacted the nurse to thank her for protecting his rights.

This was not either Payne's nor Tracy's first violation of policy - sexual harassment and, surprise, surprise, failure to report an incident.

The Auld Grump

Attacking another poster is not needed and violates #1

 Frazzled wrote:
Attacking another poster is not needed and violates #1

I was removing it even as you were typing, I think....

The Auld Grump

Good deal!

And remember dogs rule cats drool!

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
This was not either Payne's nor Tracy's first violation of policy - sexual harassment and, surprise, surprise, failure to report an incident.

The Auld Grump

Yup, the police sure do a great job of policing themselves...

Jesus I'd be fired so fast for that sort of behavior it would make my head spin...I certainly wouldnt be getting off with just a suspension and a reprimand for that sort of behavior.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
This was not either Payne's nor Tracy's first violation of policy - sexual harassment and, surprise, surprise, failure to report an incident.

The Auld Grump

Yup, the police sure do a great job of policing themselves...

Jesus I'd be fired so fast for that sort of behavior it would make my head spin...I certainly wouldnt be getting off with just a suspension and a reprimand for that sort of behavior.

Looking specifically at the US here it really seems a cultural thing that cops are treated with such deference that they almost appear to covered in teflon when it comes to serious issues.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
This was not either Payne's nor Tracy's first violation of policy - sexual harassment and, surprise, surprise, failure to report an incident.

The Auld Grump

Yup, the police sure do a great job of policing themselves...

Jesus I'd be fired so fast for that sort of behavior it would make my head spin...I certainly wouldnt be getting off with just a suspension and a reprimand for that sort of behavior.

Looking specifically at the US here it really seems a cultural thing that cops are treated with such deference that they almost appear to covered in teflon when it comes to serious issues.

Three parts:
1. Cultural difference. The conservative culture in the US supports the police. This is also the culture that tends to draw recruits to the police. I would proffer thats everywhere.
2. Unions. Police have absolutely fabuloous unions. In turn those unions give campaign contributions to politicians.
3. The Correctional Industrial complex. Similar to #2: the industry provides contributions to electoral support to politicians, who then support the industry. Its big business.

At least wer're not Latin America. Police force death squads are a thing there.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Looking specifically at the US here it really seems a cultural thing that cops are treated with such deference that they almost appear to covered in teflon when it comes to serious issues.

Without passing judgement, I will comment that there's a lot of very angry people in St. Louis right now who are intent on demonstrating that they feel that this culture needs to change.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:
Looking specifically at the US here it really seems a cultural thing that cops are treated with such deference that they almost appear to covered in teflon when it comes to serious issues.

1. Cultural difference. The conservative culture in the US supports the police. This is also the culture that tends to draw recruits to the police.

Which does seem a bit odd when you think about it. Isn't "conservative" also about respecting the Constitution, the rights it gives people and ofc the right to bear arms? No one can tell an American what to do? Why would these same people then support a police force that does whatever it wants? Is it just that they think the police will never come for them because they are good people who'll never have trouble with the law?

It is a bit of a dichotomy.

This is delving perhaps waaay off target, into a minefield, but imo:

U.S. Politics is only one dimensional, not two dimensional. So the authoritarian right and the libertarian right are in the same tent, and the authoritarian left and libertarian left are also in the same tent.

That's why some of it is so dysfunctional.

Part of the problem is that there is often the argument that the police do a hard and dangerous job (which they do), and therefore we should cut them some slack.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
This is delving perhaps waaay off target, into a minefield, but imo:

U.S. Politics is only one dimensional, not two dimensional. So the authoritarian right and the libertarian right are in the same tent, and the authoritarian left and libertarian left are also in the same tent.

That's why some of it is so dysfunctional.

^

There's as much of an up-down authoritarian-libertarian break in US society as a right/left one, probably moreso to be honest.

d-usa wrote:Part of the problem is that there is often the argument that the police do a hard and dangerous job (which they do), and therefore we should cut them some slack.

EMT's too but they seem to be able to survive crazy situations without randomly shooting people that often?

Vaktathi wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
This is delving perhaps waaay off target, into a minefield, but imo:

U.S. Politics is only one dimensional, not two dimensional. So the authoritarian right and the libertarian right are in the same tent, and the authoritarian left and libertarian left are also in the same tent.

That's why some of it is so dysfunctional.

^

There's as much of an up-down authoritarian-libertarian break in US society as a right/left one, probably moreso to be honest.

I think the point is about the two party system where you only get to choose your side on one dimension. Every politician who wants to participate effectively has to fit somewhere on that line and all other dimensions get flattened onto that line when it comes to voting.

Maine recently switched to a ranked ballot for gubernatorial elections, which adds a bit of flex to that line.

Mind you, Maine also splits its electoral votes (and did in the most recent Presidential election) - one of only two states that do so.

Which strikes me as a much saner way of doing things - if the populace of a state is split between candidates then the electoral votes should be split as well.

All of which is kind of off topic....

So, waffling back on topic - it is worth mentioning that Payne is also frequently cited for being dedicated to his job, and going beyond the minimum effort needed - which goes a way to both explain why the department cut him some (IMHO too much) slack, and why his superior backed him up, in the face of his being pretty blatantly wrong in this instance.

It is a lot easier to say 'You're fired!' to a lazy jerk than to a dedicated and hard working jerk.

The Auld Grump