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The arguments have lately been about sheep and deer so who knows what's even happening in this thread anymore. Reason left a while ago.

 Ghaz wrote:

 Byte wrote:

Xenomancers wrote:It seems clear to me that a single dice can be re-rolled.

Primark G wrote:You have to reroll all dice as per the errata.

This pretty much puts us back to the OP.

So in general, its remains as clear as mud.

No. The errata is clear. The arguments have been over the wording of the stratagem and if it indeed states that you can re-roll a single die.

Actually it tells you to reroll a single dice, hence all the hubbub about what's a single dice.

 Byte wrote:

Xenomancers wrote:It seems clear to me that a single dice can be re-rolled.

Primark G wrote:You have to reroll all dice as per the errata.

This pretty much puts us back to the OP.

So in general, its remains as clear as mud.

Nope, it's crystal clear, you can reroll one die. That people are choosing to claim some sort of ambiguity between the use of "single" and "dice", because they choose not to acknowledge that games workshop uses "dice" as both singular and plural, and the adjective "single" clearly delineates which, doesn't make it actually unclear.

Also, those who are arguing that "single dice" could mean "die" or "dice roll/result" might want to note that rules like 'Ere We Go and Icon of Wrath that specifically relate to rerolling the charge all use the terminology "reroll the charge roll. In fact, even the BRB section and the errata in question on re-rolling dice uses "reroll a dice roll" when talking about instances you can reroll "some or all of the dice". In fact, dozens of rules across all of the indexes and codices tell you you can use certain abilities to reroll a dice roll, so you'll excuse me if I'm not buying that for this one particular stratagem GW didn't see the need to specify a difference between a "dice" and "dice roll"

 Ghaz wrote:

 Byte wrote:

Xenomancers wrote:It seems clear to me that a single dice can be re-rolled.

Primark G wrote:You have to reroll all dice as per the errata.

This pretty much puts us back to the OP.

So in general, its remains as clear as mud.

No. The errata is clear. The arguments have been over the wording of the stratagem and if it indeed states that you can re-roll a single die.

No, the errata is the problem. It's been interpreted three different ways and the people who think like you do are hinging 100% of their theory on the poorly defined "unless otherwise stated" that leaves a blanket open door for all manner of interpretation as to what qualifies under that clause. When a rule explicitly states "unless otherwise stated", the Stratagem failing to mention an exception like literally every other exception in the game means it has not been "otherwise stated". People are merely reading the stratagem quite LITERALLY and taking that as "otherwise stated" when in fact it would need to state that you can still re-roll partial dice. That's what's meant by "unless otherwise stated" and that's what one of the three interpretations adhere to.

Resume your back and forth squabbles of insulting each other's intelligence because this will remain a thick soup of confusion until GW does something about it.

No. It's not the errata.

 Arkaine wrote:

No, the errata is the problem. It's been interpreted three different ways and the people who think like you do are hinging 100% of their theory on the poorly defined "unless otherwise stated" that leaves a blanket open door for all manner of interpretation as to what qualifies under that clause. When a rule explicitly states "unless otherwise stated", the Stratagem failing to mention an exception like literally every other exception in the game means it has not been "otherwise stated". People are merely reading the stratagem quite LITERALLY and taking that as "otherwise stated" when in fact it would need to state that you can still re-roll partial dice. That's what's meant by "unless otherwise stated" and that's what one of the three interpretations adhere to.

Damn, that sucks. I really enjoy using the counter-offensive stratagem, but, y'know you actually can't. Because yeah, it says you can pick a unit and fight with them after an enemy charging unit fights, but since it doesn't explicitly say "this is an exception to the rule that charging units fight first", so y'know, I can't accept that it is actually an exception.

Literally nowhere is there anything in this FAQ saying "unless otherwise stated, and stated that it was otherwise stated. And otherwise stated that it was otherwise stated that it was otherwise stated, and affirmed by oath or written affirmation by the author that this is in fact an exception, and has been otherwise stated, signed in triplicate, notarized, lost, buried in a peat bog, found, lost again..."

It says "unless otherwise stated"

The command reroll stratagem states otherwise. It states you may reroll a single dice.

Resume your back and forth squabbles of insulting each other's intelligence because this will remain a thick soup of confusion until GW does something about it.

Only if you are confused by clear, rudimentary English.

So why was the FAQ concerning 2d6, 3d6 rerolls created?

I get Ork "ere we go" because "reroll charge". But it already doesn't say one or both d6s.

So maybe the answer lies in the reason the FAQ exists. Why?

 Byte wrote:
So why was the FAQ concerning 2d6, 3d6 rerolls created?

I get Ork "ere we go" because "reroll charge". But it already doesn't say one or both d6s.

So maybe the answer lies in the reason the FAQ exists. Why?

Again, the errata says...

Page 178 – Re-rolls
Change this paragraph to read:

... its changing unclear wording in the main rulebook. Without it, the original rule could have been read that a rule like 'Ere We Go! could re-roll one or both dice.

It actually clearly says reroll charge. You think some would interpret that as one or both d6s?

If true. Theres no hope for humanity.

 Byte wrote:
It actually clearly says reroll charge. You think some would interpret that as one or both d6s?

If true. Theres no hope for humanity.

You wouldn't be here if you had hope for humanity.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 Byte wrote:
It actually clearly says reroll charge. You think some would interpret that as one or both d6s?

If true. Theres no hope for humanity.

You wouldn't be here if you had hope for humanity.

I honestly dont know what you mean. Sorry.

Here, in YMDC, where we argue the meaning of "a" let alone "single Dice".

And Ghaz changed the word in his answer to an unambiguous "die"; which has a single meaning. "Dice" has 2 meanings, hence the arguments.

As for why the errata exists: it was not terribly clear; "one or two dice in rerolls and rerolling charge left the option for a single one of those dice to be rerolled while leaving the other as rolled to begin with(and see the defining articles in that statement that makes it unambiguous; and are also lacking in the strategem, that is clear rudimentary English)

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Presently unknown.

There are 2 schools of thought and both have valid points:

1) take the strategem literally; you only ever reroll 1 die no matter how many you rolled for the rule. Valid because the strategem is not telling you to reroll a result, just any dice(which GW uses as both singular and plural).

2) take the strategem as "result" or rather default back to the normal reroll rules. Valid as the only rules we have for rerolls.

Personally, as you are spending a finite resource, I play both interpretations at will: reroll 1 die, or the whole result.

I "like" this. Right or wrong. (3) Should fly in the club.

Agreed, his reasoning is sound as the flexibility is what I also would expect from a Stratagem.

It's one die/dice. All the semantic stuff is lovely but the Stratagem lets you reroll one of the dice you just rolled.

A normal reroll granted by an ability, e.g. Rerolling a Charge, would mean both dice unless specified otherwise (like a Farseer's ability reroll one of both dice).

It's a touch confusing to use the same/similar terms for different things within the rules but it's not remotely as hard as people are making out in this thread.

Can there be a Perpetual Arguments section set up so YMDC can go back to being about answering questions?

 JohnnyHell wrote:


Can there be a Perpetual Arguments section set up so YMDC can go back to being about answering questions?

Wait.. YMDC is about answering questions and not discussions. Huh...

Guess that makes you the self appointed authority.

Listening.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
It's one die/dice. All the semantic stuff is lovely but the Stratagem lets you reroll one of the dice you just rolled.

A normal reroll granted by an ability, e.g. Rerolling a Charge, would mean both dice unless specified otherwise (like a Farseer's ability reroll one of both dice).

It's a touch confusing to use the same/similar terms for different things within the rules but it's not remotely as hard as people are making out in this thread.

Can there be a Perpetual Arguments section set up so YMDC can go back to being about answering questions?

Most of the perpetual arguments are a few very vocal people who refuse to believe there is any interpretations to what has been written other than what they think is the correct and only way to read it.

I haven't been arguing that it IS ABSOLUTELY both dice; just that it could be.

When the other way to read it is grammatically wrong though, is it even worth considering?

"Single dice" being equivalent to "one die" is grammatically correct in English. "Single dice" being equivalent to "one dice roll" or "one dice result" is not.

Kel: while everyone is entitled to an opinion, it does not mean that every opinion is correct. Same for interpretations. Sure, you can interpret something completely different from what the author intended, but it doesn't make you correct. And if you're ignoring what's actually written and replace words and ignore context, you can't claim your interpretation to be a valid alternative.

This thread is fun.

I have seen rules discussions where I thought they have been as far-fetched as Nazi bases on the backside of the moon. But this on is more on the "the Earth is flat"-level...


Sorry, anyone claiming "single dice" to be several dice can only be trolling. I have no other rational explanation for this.

 Forcast wrote:
This thread is fun.

Exalted!

*break*

Maybe switch to

d6
2d6
3d6

i.e.

Relic:

Green Toast. If your Warlord has green toast he can reroll any single d6 even if in a multi d6 result i.e. 1d6 reroll for a 3d6 pee distance.

i think we're about done here.