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Okay, so I have a squad of six Chosen with five plasma guns and a plasma pistol on the Chosen Champion. I use the Prescience psychic power on the squad in the psychic phase, and when it shoots I roll eleven 1s. What happens?

You miss 11 times and die horribly since Veterans only affects your To Wound roll.

Even if you used Prescience, which is +1 to hit, instead you would miss 11 times and then NOT die horribly since the plasma wouldn't overcharge, but natural 1s are still misses.

Oops, let's change that Veterans to Prescience, for clarity.

Don't the rules say you can't modify natural hit rolls of 1?

Nurglitch wrote:
Oops, let's change that Veterans to Prescience, for clarity.

Don't the rules say you can't modify natural hit rolls of 1?

No, they say natural hit rolls of 1 miss regardless of modifiers. That still remains true. You are still missing. You just don't overcharge kill yourself.

The Designer's Commentary FAQ has all of this explained.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Warhammer_40000_Designers_Commentary.pdf

Q: When making a hit roll with a supercharged plasma
weapon, do you determine whether a ‘1’ was rolled
before or after applying re-rolls and modifiers?
A: You apply all re-rolls and modifiers first.
For example, if, after re-rolls and modifiers, the final result
is then a 1 (or counts as a 1, as explained above), then the
supercharged plasma weapon injures or kills the firer.

 Arkaine wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:
Oops, let's change that Veterans to Prescience, for clarity.

Don't the rules say you can't modify natural hit rolls of 1?

No, they say natural hit rolls of 1 miss regardless of modifiers. That still remains true. You are still missing. You just don't overcharge kill yourself.

The Designer's Commentary FAQ has all of this explained.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Warhammer_40000_Designers_Commentary.pdf

Q: When making a hit roll with a supercharged plasma
weapon, do you determine whether a ‘1’ was rolled
before or after applying re-rolls and modifiers?
A: You apply all re-rolls and modifiers first.
For example, if, after re-rolls and modifiers, the final result
is then a 1 (or counts as a 1, as explained above), then the
supercharged plasma weapon injures or kills the firer.

Okay, so I roll eleven 1s, and they're made into 2s by the +1 modifier of Prescience, correct? So I miss, because I needed 3s, but I don't suffer casualties because I modified the hit rolls of 1 to 2?

Nurglitch wrote:
Okay, so I roll eleven 1s, and they're made into 2s by the +1 modifier of Prescience, correct? So I miss, because I needed 3s, but I don't suffer casualties because I modified the hit rolls of 1 to 2?

Yes on all counts, however...

You also miss because you rolled natural 1s. Even if you needed 2s to hit or somehow got +2 to your hit roll to make it a 3, it's still a miss. Natural 1s always miss.

Okay, had it explained to me like this, which makes sense to me (finally).

Suppose a model is BS2+ and it super-charges a plasma gun while affected by prescience and nothing else (no negative modifiers). It rolls two dice and gets two 1s.

A roll of 1 always fails to hit, but a hit roll of 2 (1 for the dice +1 for the Prescience) avoids the super-charge effect.

What rulebook are you guys reading? There is no "natural 1" anywhere in the new rulebook. Doesn't exist. Only under Making saves it says a roll of 1 always fails. IE There is no way even with modifiers to ever make a save of any kind on a 1.

That's a roll of 1. Not "natural 1" no such animal anymore wad it up and throw it in the trash.

So if you have +1 to hit, and roll 9 1's with overcharged plasma = 9 2's thus you don't overheat, and simply miss...unless you hit on 2's.

It's there for hitting and wounding too.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
It's there for hitting and wounding too.

Yes but still it's a roll of 1 not a natural roll of 1. So a 5 with a -4 modifier is a roll of 1 per the new rules. Hence Plasma overheating on a 1 means it will overheat on a 5 with a -4, but it won't overheat on a 1 with a +1 to hit.

Wagguy80,
Natural 1 is a very common piece of terminology within the gaming community, it is more then understandable what Arkaine means when he says 'Natural 1' even without Game Workshop copying this common meaning into their Rulebook.
In fact, Arkaine is one of the people who have commonly lamented the fact that Game Workshop has been very slow in simply using this piece of terminology... instead they feel the need to say 'without modifiers' every time they address it.