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If you have the Ultramarine Warlord Trait...

Adept of the Codex - Whilst your warlord is alive, roll a dice each time you spend a Command Point to use a Stratagem; on a 5+ that CP is immediately refunded.

...and you spend CP "before the battle," for example to to create a chapter master does the ability trigger? Your warlord is certainly not dead.

I would say no.

While he is certainly not dead, he is also not on the table and considered for game rule purpose's to not exist yet for abilities that target him.

You cannot use powers or abilities while not on the table, be it auras, psychic powers, or leadership abilities.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I would say no.

While he is certainly not dead, he is also not on the table and considered for game rule purpose's to not exist yet for abilities that target him.

You cannot use powers or abilities while not on the table, be it auras, psychic powers, or leadership abilities.

Soooo I can't roll for CP refund while Warlord is in Reserves or embarked in a transport?

I'm pretty sure the only restriction is "While your Warlord is alive (...)"...

Because:
"(...) Warlord Trait – a preferred tactic or personal ability (...)" (RB, pg 186)
So it is not "ability" by default.

TBF I think the ability does work even while embarked because its a warlord trait.


However I'm also fairly certain it doesn't work on CP spent before the game begins.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
TBF I think the ability does work even while embarked because its a warlord trait.


However I'm also fairly certain it doesn't work on CP spent before the game begins.

I fail to see your logic in that.

Eihnlazer,
Can you quote the Rule which states Models not on the table do not benefit from abilities on their datasheets?

The concept that a Model does not have access to a Rule simply because it is not on the table is dangerously flawed, though with the re-write when moving to 8th means it is not as problematic as it was in previous editions (yet, wait till more Codex are written and more 'pre-game' Rules exist). Prior, I would point to any number of Special Rules specifically designed for Models waiting in reserves and highlight that none contain any sort of 'may be used while the Model is off the table' wording. Some Special Rules would even allow the Army List to be changed, something that could only occur with analog thinking at it's finest. I would also be able to point to quite a few Warlord Traits that had to be able to function even if the Warlord was off the table, such as pulling units into Deep Strike along side said warlord. These previous Rules all had no problem working when the Model was not deployed, as they usually have internal requirements to prevent abuse. The most common being 'within X inch' requirements, that become impossible to confirm when the Model is not physically on the table somewhere.

Unless this has changed and I am simply overlooking something, which by all means please quote the page at least so I can read for myself, it still seems the same way.

I could find no rules quote so specific to what your asking.

I will only mention that since it speaks of the warlord being "Alive" that the rules intention is that it only works while he is on the table.

Remember that 8th is without a doubt intended to be a simpler game experience than previous editions and the authors wanted some assumptions made to speed up gameplay and reduce complexity.

Since spending command points for strategems before the game even starts is more like part of list building I highly doubt that traits or abilities that come from the models themselves should apply then.

A unit in reserves is not considered destroyed until the end of turn 3 in matched play, iirc. By that logic it isn't dead until then, so it has to be alive.

If Warlord is not destroyed they're alive, no matter whether deployed or not. Being alive doesn't hinge on being deployed. I'd say you get to roll.

(I can't believe we've managed to generate Schrodinger's Warlord here, btw)

Eihnlazer,
Before the Game includes the period between Deployment and the First Battle Round.
Nothing prevents the Opening Poster from Deploying the Captain, Deploying the Warlord into Reserves, evoking this Stratagem to replace the Captain and then evoking the Warlord Trait to try and save the Command Point....


JohnnyHell,
It isn't a new problem, believe there was Errata from previous editions addressing Warlord Traits before the Game even Begins to highlight that Alive means 'not yet slain in this battle.'